Preventing oxidation of Hazy IPA's in Howler/Growler

[Rob2010SS]

More likely the culprit was the thermal expansion of the liquid, if you filled cold and let it warm up. The pressure induced by CO2 is self-limiting in the sense that once you reach the equilibrium pressure, the pressure stops rising. Liquids, on the other hand, will increase the pressure [almost] as much as they need to be able to expand. The gas in a container acts as a cushion against the liquid expansion. You can observe thermal expansion by drawing a line on a [long-neck] bottle before moving it in/out of the fridge. It's observable even for the some-degree winter/summer basement temperature swing here.

If you're willing to sacrifice another container, fill it with cold water, cap on liquid, and let it warm up. If it explodes, CO2 wasn't the problem.

tl;dr capping on liquid in an inflexible container is a bad idea regardless of carbonation

(besides cap-on-CO2-foam don't have good suggestions for your actual problem, sorry)

Good info! I don't think that was the issue though. Because once filled, they were kept in a fridge, never allowed to get warm, and they were exploding in the fridge (what a mess!).

I talked to the wife about a can seamer. I think that's the best way to solve the issue. Instead of filling 32oz glass howlers, everyone gets (2) 16oz cans! She was not against it!!! LOL.

 

[Golddiggie]

I talked to the wife about a can seamer. I think that's the best way to solve the issue. Instead of filling 32oz glass howlers, everyone gets (2) 16oz cans! She was not against it!!! LOL.

IMO/IME, canning is going to be the better option. Especially with opting for the 16oz can for a standard fill. Instead of trying for the crowler size (32oz can). Lower cost to package means the customers will spend less without having to purchase an empty growler earlier (and do the swap). Add to that lower operational costs for you in that you won't need to clean/sanitize turned in growlers moving forward.

Maybe offer people that bring in the old issue growlers an extra can (or two) for the exchange (whatever equates the $$ they spent on them).

Depending on your batch sizes, you might want to look into one of the setups that fills cans, then seals them without you needing to perform all of the tasks. From my earlier research, there are some choices that are pretty reasonable in price. Especially for the features. It would shorten the time it takes to package the batch as well. Less time you need to spend doing that is more time you can spend on other things (or having a pint ).

I'm waiting for the LHBS I shop at to get the KegLand label applying machine in (ordered last week). Lower cost (to me) than from MoreBeer (who wanted $200 for 'freight shipping' BS).

 

[Rob2010SS]

IMO/IME, canning is going to be the better option. Especially with opting for the 16oz can for a standard fill. Instead of trying for the crowler size (32oz can). Lower cost to package means the customers will spend less without having to purchase an empty growler earlier (and do the swap). Add to that lower operational costs for you in that you won't need to clean/sanitize turned in growlers moving forward.

Maybe offer people that bring in the old issue growlers an extra can (or two) for the exchange (whatever equates the $$ they spent on them).

Depending on your batch sizes, you might want to look into one of the setups that fills cans, then seals them without you needing to perform all of the tasks. From my earlier research, there are some choices that are pretty reasonable in price. Especially for the features. It would shorten the time it takes to package the batch as well. Less time you need to spend doing that is more time you can spend on other things (or having a pint ).

I'm waiting for the LHBS I shop at to get the KegLand label applying machine in (ordered last week). Lower cost (to me) than from MoreBeer (who wanted $200 for 'freight shipping' BS).

I don't think I've seen one of those setups that fills and seals. I've only seen the seamers that do just that - seal the can. I'll have to search for it. Our typical batch size is 1/2 bbl. But on occasion, we'll do a smaller batch in our 7 gal uni.

 

[Golddiggie]

Might not be worth it for 1/2bbl and smaller batch sizes. IIRC, the setups range in the $20-30k range (to start). With those filling four cans at a shot, then sending them to the seamer section. Some also apply shrink wrap labels to the cans before filling them. LOTS of options out there to pick from. I'll be looking to get something when I hit the 1bbl batch size (and above). Since it will seriously shorten the time it takes to package a batch.

One from these guys might do the trick for you:
https://www.sskeg.com/can-filling-machine

 

[jwhazel]

Not an answer to "something that can be added to a keg" but rather for "something added to the growler" - argon gas. It displaces oxygen rather than just mixing with it like co2. I've had success bottling with just a few quick squirts in the headspace, no oxidation for months.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Not an answer to "something that can be added to a keg" but rather for "something added to the growler" - argon gas. It displaces oxygen rather than just mixing with it like co2. I've had success bottling with just a few quick squirts in the headspace, no oxidation for months.

Where the hell do you even get that at?? LOL.

We took, what I believe to be, the best step in preventing/slowing/eliminating oxidation - we bought the Cannular Pro Seamer. It'll be here Friday. We're going to move away from the howlers all together. We'll fill 1 keg for us to have on tap and can everything else. We'll see how that goes.

 

[jwhazel]

Where the hell do you even get that at?? LOL.

At the homebrew level: Amazon.com: ArT Wine Preserver | Premium Wine Preservation | Argon Gas | Wine Saver Spray | Eliminate Oxidation: Home & Kitchen
Larger scale/commercial level: pretty much any airgas or welding supply shop. Just like buying a co2 tank.

 

[wepeeler]

I know this has probably been discussed/answered in other threads somewhere. However, my google-ability is not very good and I never know the right words to search for to find what I'm looking for, LOL.

Here's the question I'm trying to answer: Is there something that can be added to a keg that can prevent, or help reduce, oxidation in hazy IPAs when filling howlers/growlers?

Here's the backstory....
We have a group of people that we fill howlers and growlers for whenever we put something new on tap. We bought a bunch of these howlers with our logo on them...

View attachment 758209

In 2020, we brewed a hazy that we shared with the group. At that point, these howlers were fairly new and we didn't have a lot of experience with them. We were filling them up to the very top of the glass and capping them. We were practically capping them on liquid. The thought process was that if we fill them that full, there's no room for air or oxygen, and if we don't have any oxygen in the howler, the beer should be well protected.

We started having a few of these explode. They would all break here in the circled area below...

View attachment 758210

Ultimately, after more failures and more breaks, we came to the conclusion that we were overfilling the howlers and the CO2 escaping from the beer was causing them to blow out the bottoms right in that crease in the circled area above. Since we have stopped filling to the top of the glass and only filling to the 1L / 32oz mark on the glass, we have had no blow outs.

Fast forward to 2021, we brewed another hazy and shared with the group. We now filled the howlers to the 1L / 32 oz line and people were drinking them fast enough that the flavor wasn't affected too much, but when we got a couple of pictures of the beer, it was clearly oxidized. It went from bright yellow to that well known dark brown, almost purple, oxidized look. We started sticking a CO2 tube in the neck of the howler when filling to try and flush it out and it helped some of them but not all of them.

We're going to be brewing another hazy here in a couple of months. We want to be able to have people enjoy this the way it was meant to - bright and fresh! I know howlers and bottles are not ideal for hazies, and that's why a lot of people just don't bottle them. I've also seen talk of adding different ingredients at time of kegging to help prevent oxidation and improve shelf stability.

What are my options here as far as additions that can be added to the keg to possibly help reduce this - if there are any options at that?
- I know those K-Meta and Na-Meta ingredients are antioxidants but not sure if those can be added to fermented, carbonated beer without affecting flavor.
- Can they just be added to the howler or do you add them to the keg?

As far as how we brew these, we're not doing LODO by any means, but once the beer is in the fermenter, it doesn't see oxygen again. We ferment in a unitank, we're dry hopping after fermentation is complete using an oxygen free, purgeable dry hop apparatus, we carbonate in the tank, we closed pressure transfer to kegs that have been 100% purged of oxygen by pushing full volume of sanitizer out using CO2. The kegs themselves last for months and no oxidation issues. Once we put the last one in howlers, it was a matter of 2-3 days and it was turning that brown/purple.

I'm banking on faulty growlers. I've never had a bottle/growler crack from filling to the tippity top from a picnic tap in over 5 years. I'd say I fill them weekly to share.

Could there be some sort of secondary fermentation happening? Infection?

Just saw that you bought a canner. Best of luck with that!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I'm banking on faulty growlers. I've never had a bottle/growler crack from filling to the tippity top from a picnic tap in over 5 years. I'd say I fill them weekly to share.

Could there be some sort of secondary fermentation happening? Infection?

Just saw that you bought a canner. Best of luck with that!

I'm with you on the faulty growlers. We've taken growlers home from breweries and they fill them up to the brim and cap them, and no issues. However, we've never had one of the lil' genies from a brewery. It was always the standard shape howler.

I'm still a firm believer that something with the design of this particular shape makes it susceptible to breaking there.

I don't believe there's a secondary fermentation or infection happening. Reason being is that we had some explode as fast as 5-10 min after filling. They didn't even make it off of my kitchen counter before exploding. That's too fast for that to be the cause.

Yep, I think the canner will be a great addition! Thanks for the input.

 

[rizziot]

I've have this issue when I brew Hazy IPA's and want to take it places . I was looking at pressurized growlers, but when getting a hazy from a brewery there would still be 'some' oxidation when the fill it right? Would just having a pressurized growler be enough (via purging after fill) to keep it fresh? I've been trying to figure this out for a bit and found this cap at craft master growlers. It 'looks' like it would let you do a oxygen free transfer from keg to growler, Yes / No? Keg Cap | Ball Lock Draft Adapter For Pressurized Growlers .

I've also read that Ascorbic Acid at packaging works pretty well too, just haven't tried it personally.

 

[Yesfan]

Slightly off subject, but Genus Brewing suggested in one of their videos to add the ascorbic acid in the mash so the beer has a more stable shelf life. I brewed an alt beer recently, and added 4g to the mash. I know it's not a NEIPA, but figure what the heck...I'll try it.

 

[rizziot]

I saw that video too! Please follow up and let us know how it goes .

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

My suggestion back on page 1 of this thread was to add a conservative 0.2 grams of Ascorbic Acid per Liter of finished beer and see if that brings improvement. The video brings forth no revelation.

To how many 'nominal' Liters of finished beer did the video suggest that 4 grams of Ascorbic Acid be added?