Preparing to make a imperial/sweet stout

[Ragman]

This will be my first attempt at a stout and I feel I have pretty lofty goals as I want something that is dark, rich, thick, sweet and chocolatey. Good body and mouthfeel are a must.
I just had a Big Ditch Mudlarker Imperial Peanut Butter Stout and while I wasnt too thrilled with the peanut butter flavor, the rest of the beer was just what I am looking for.
I have a few questions maybe some of you experts can point me in the right direction.

1 - We will be using lactose but should we add maltodextrin as well?
2 - I think the hop amount may be a little much - I want a slight bitter but not too much.
3 - Will we need to rack to a secondary? Never done that before but I think this might be a recipe where I should.
4 - Will I be able to serve this from a picnic tap or am I just asking for trouble?
5 - If I cant use picnic taps do I need to get some kind of special stout faucet or can I just go with a stainless steel nukatap?
6 - I hear a lot of people soaking their cocoa nibs in vodka before adding to the fermenter - is this necessary? I want big chocolate flavor but dont want any off-vodka flavors in my brew.
7 - The grain bill is already high - how can I get some more ABV in there without adding more grains (I dont want to add any kind of bourbon flavor to it)

Feel free to comment, recommend or criticize my recipe.
Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[day_trippr]

1 - We will be using lactose but should we add maltodextrin as well?
2 - I think the hop amount may be a little much - I want a slight bitter but not too much.
3 - Will we need to rack to a secondary? Never done that before but I think this might be a recipe where I should.
4 - Will I be able to serve this from a picnic tap or am I just asking for trouble?
5 - If I cant use picnic taps do I need to get some kind of special stout faucet or can I just go with a stainless steel nukatap?
6 - I hear a lot of people soaking their cocoa nibs in vodka before adding to the fermenter - is this necessary? I want big chocolate flavor but dont want any off-vodka flavors in my brew.
7 - The grain bill is already high - how can I get some more ABV in there without adding more grains (I dont want to add any kind of bourbon flavor to it)

1 - I would not. As you can see, your recipe program already figures your grain bill will finish in the 30 point range. I don't think you want it to be even heavier - it isn't a massive enough OG to justify it.

2 - No way that's too much. Remember the finish character - it's going to be big and tending towards sweet. You're good

3 - If you rack, do it with some fermentation points left to help scrub the receiving vessel.

4 and 5 - Before I bought a dedicated stout faucet for dispensing with beer gas, I carbonated to ~ 2 volumes and served through a Perlick 525SS - a standard forward sealing design ala the Intertaps that followed in Perlick's wake. And there have been times I've sampled a keg by snapping on a picnic tap. So as long as there isn't pile of cocoa nibs to plug up dip tubes and post poppets, you can pretty much use anything.

6 - I always marinate cocoa nibs for my imperial chocolate stout. 8 ounces per 5 gallons soaked in enough dark rum (forget that wimpy vodka sh!t ) to cover for a week.

I also include the magic ingredient I'm not seeing in your recipe: vanilla. You simply must included at least one or two vanilla beans - slit lengthwide, then the pod contents scraped out, then chop up the pod and throw the whole thing in with the nibs. Vanilla magnifies chocolate character. Gotta have it

7 - You could add corn sugar. It will completely ferment out and jump the ABV without adding character or body - indeed if you use an appreciable amount it will thin the FG...

hth!

Cheers!

 

[Ragman]

Thank you for the reply.
As far as secondary racking, id really rather not do it unless it greatly benefits the brew.
I will definately add the vanilla bean and probably the corn sugar as well.
When should I add the vanilla, cocoa nibs and corn sugar? Towards the end of fermentation or after fermentation is finished?
Also will the corn sugar add any sweetness that I would need to consider?

 

[day_trippr]

Imo - and the way I've always done this part - the marinaded cocoa nibs and vanilla beans are added after the stout is completely fermented. Vanilla is particular ephemeral and the less exposure to deleterious effects the longer its character will persist (which is why I blanch when I see someone adding vanilla to a boil kettle. Tragic).

The corn sugar addition is an end-of-boil thing. You want to assure it's dissolved and pasteurized, and while many styles call for it to be added post-pitch, there's no need for that with a stout unless you're going for a quadruple imperial (if there is such a thing - and presumably where it might be wise to pace the sugar load on the yeast )

As for the secondary...there are exactly two beers I use a secondary. One is a raspberry hibiscus wheat beer where I don't want to lose any of the raspberry brightness to commingling with trub or excess yeast; and the other is my imperial triple chocolate honey stout that I've kept on tap continuously for many years. For that brew, I don't want the half pound of cocoa nibs to simply sink right into the rather deep trub layer (this is a 1.107 OG brew) and get lost.

In both cases I always make the transfer with remaining fermentation points in the hope the yeast will at least push some O2 out the bung if not consume much of same in the wort....

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

I think your ibus are extremely low, especially For a stout intended to finish at 1.031(however you mashing at 156*f I believe your going to finish closer to 1.038/40). I just brewed a imperial milk stout, bigger than your beer 1.106 - 1.031, but I hit 75 ibus and it still finishes on the sweet side, no perceived bitterness whatsoever and it only prevents it from being too sweet. I highly suggest targeting .5 BU/GU, especially since are not using any high roast husked grains so you will not gain any substantial perceived bitterness from the grains.

 

[Ragman]

I think your ibus are extremely low, especially For a stout intended to finish at 1.031(however you mashing at 156*f I believe your going to finish closer to 1.038/40). I just brewed a imperial milk stout, bigger than your beer 1.106 - 1.031, but I hit 75 ibus and it still finishes on the sweet side, no perceived bitterness whatsoever and it only prevents it from being too sweet. I highly suggest targeting .5 BU/GU, especially since are not using any high roast husked grains so you will not gain any substantial perceived bitterness from the grains.

So you are saying to up the boil hop amount?

 

[Ragman]

Imo - and the way I've always done this part - the marinaded cocoa nibs and vanilla beans are added after the stout is completely fermented. Vanilla is particular ephemeral and the less exposure to deleterious effects the longer its character will persist (which is why I blanch when I see someone adding vanilla to a boil kettle. Tragic).

The corn sugar addition is an end-of-boil thing. You want to assure it's dissolved and pasteurized, and while many styles call for it to be added post-pitch, there's no need for that with a stout unless you're going for a quadruple imperial (if there is such a thing - and presumably where it might be wise to pace the sugar load on the yeast )

As for the secondary...there are exactly two beers I use a secondary. One is a raspberry hibiscus wheat beer where I don't want to lose any of the raspberry brightness to commingling with trub or excess yeast; and the other is my imperial triple chocolate honey stout that I've kept on tap continuously for many years. For that brew, I don't want the half pound of cocoa nibs to simply sink right into the rather deep trub layer (this is a 1.107 OG brew) and get lost.

In both cases I always make the transfer with remaining fermentation points in the hope the yeast will at least push some O2 out the bung if not consume much of same in the wort....

Cheers!

yum that Imerial triple Chocolate honey stout sounds delicious!

Ive never done a secondary before. When you transfer, do you use an auto siphon or pressurized transfer? I dont think I have everything I need for a pressure transfer but if I use an auto siphon do I still take great care not to pull any of the trub over? Isnt there some active yeast in there I would want to bring over to the secondary?

 

[Ragman]

Tweaking the recipe per the responses to my post. Thinking of changing the yeast. My HBS has Edinburgh which I have read is a good yeast for this type of brew. Also changed my bittering hope to Magnum - upped it to 2 oz at the boil and 1oz Cascade for the whirlpool. Will give me an IBU of 34. ALso added Vanilla bean.

Anyone recommend different hops or yeast for this brew?

 

[McKnuckle]

The main purpose of a secondary, if utilized, is to clarify and condition the beer over an extended period. You do not want to intentionally rack solids to a secondary. If you need something in those solids to keep doing something, keep the beer in primary until you no longer do.

 

[Dgallo]

So you are saying to up the boil hop amount?

Yeah. Up your ibus to between 40-50

 

[Ragman]

Thanks for all the info guys. I will be brewing the Sunday after Christmas - my present to myself. Only bad part is I have to wait until next year to enjoy it

 

[day_trippr]

[...]
Ive never done a secondary before. When you transfer, do you use an auto siphon or pressurized transfer?[...]

Closed CO2-pushed transfer to a modestly purged receiving carboy (I flow CO2 through it for a dozen seconds or so just on GPs )
There will be plenty of yeast transferred...

Cheers!

 

[Beenym88]

You definitely do not need a separate stout tap. The only time my local breweries have a separate stout is if it’s on nitro because then you need it. Unfortunately and fortunately brewing is knowledge and trial and error I do a chocolate peanut butter stout with 100% cocoa powder at the end of the boil, then after fermentation is complete peanut butter extract and Hershey’s syrup. It’s a fan favorite around here I used cocoa nibs before and didn’t get much out of it so I switched it up. For my 5 gallon batch I also use a pound of lactose and just one ounce of fuggles at 60 minutes. So the bitterness is basically undetectable but that’s my goal with this beer. I brew another stout that I keep on tap that’s quite bitter and a much more traditional stout I kinda feel like you have to pick what your going for and go all in or you won’t get much of anything trying to get multiple things.

 

[Nathan Graen]

In both cases I always make the transfer with remaining fermentation points in the hope the yeast will at least push some O2 out the bung if not consume much of same in the wort....

I recently did an imperial stout that I transferred to secondary yesterday on top of bourbon soaked oak cubes.

It fermented 1.104 down to 1.032, I expected it to go lower, so I missed transferring when there were a few points left.

Any thoughts on throwing in some corn sugar to entice the yeast to eat up any Oxygen?

 

[Dgallo]

I recently did an imperial stout that I transferred to secondary yesterday on top of bourbon soaked oak cubes.

It fermented 1.104 down to 1.032, I expected it to go lower, so I missed transferring when there were a few points left.

Any thoughts on throwing in some corn sugar to entice the yeast to eat up any Oxygen?

Soo it won’t work as you are expecting. the yeast only really take in substantial oxygen during the growth phase and you will not have a growth phase since their will be plenty of cells to take on the sugar you would be adding. Also adding the sugar will actually add even more oxygen into your beer. Next time just add the bourbon to your beer that you soaked the oak in. It will be a tincture in theory and add the same flavor to your beer while avoiding the need for a secondary and the additional oxygen intake

 

[Ragman]

So I think I have all the ingredients gathered. I have 1 more question. I want this to be a sweet stout. Ive heard several different opinions as to when to add the Lactose. Either at boil, 10 min till flameout, during whirlpool, in primary, or in secondary. How would adding the lactose at these different stages effect the end product?

 

[tracer bullet]

So I think I have all the ingredients gathered. I have 1 more question. I want this to be a sweet stout. Ive heard several different opinions as to when to add the Lactose. Either at boil, 10 min till flameout, during whirlpool, in primary, or in secondary. How would adding the lactose at these different stages effect the end product?

Typically towards the end of the boil. Enough time to make sure it gets hot and doesn't spoil anything. Will dissolve faster too. And not require any later steps regarding sanitation, oxygen getting in, etc.

 

[Dgallo]

You can add the lactose at flameout Lactose is easily dissolvable and happens practically immediately at 150*f plus

 

[day_trippr]

Is there really a need for lactose for a beer that's going to finish around 1.030?
I've never added lactose (or maltodextrin) to a batch, and my stout doesn't lack for residual sweetness.
Fermentis S04 vs 45 pounds of grain in a 10+ gallon batch is probably why

Cheers!

 

[Ragman]

Ended up buying expired yeast. (Need to pay closer attention to the dates) so didnt get starters going as early as we wanted and had to change to WLP004 because they didnt have any more Edinburgh.

Brew day went off mostly without a hitch. Broke a beer glass - I dont think we've ever had a brew day without breaking something.

Wort tasted great, unreal how sweet it was and how much chocolate we could already taste.

I have the cacoa nibs and vanilla bean soaking in Goslings Bermuda Black Rum inside 2 tupperware containers. Its 80 proof so should that kill any bacteria? I know the tupperware was clean and the nibs were sealed as well as the vanilla. Just worried about contaminants

.

 

[Rudeoso]

Looks great. What's total wait time for this stout? I brewed a devil's silk imperial stout in mid october and was barely able to drink some on Xmas

 

[Ragman]

Looks great. What's total wait time for this stout? I brewed a devil's silk imperial stout in mid october and was barely able to drink some on Xmas

Looking at beginning of February. 2 weeks in primary,2 weeks in secondary and at least a week of conditioning in keg- My buddy will more than likely force carb his so he can drink it the day after we keg lol.

 

[Rudeoso]

Not bad, let me know how it turns out. I wish I had done a double batch. I'm down to about a 12 pack left.

 

[Ragman]

Looks delicious. What kind of stout did you make?

 

[Rudeoso]

Devil's Silk Imperial Stout from NB with vanilla bean addition on the last two weeks

 

[Ragman]

So we are 6 days into fermentation and it looks to have stopped almost completely. No cake is forming on the top of the beer and no more bubbling.
I'm thinking this could be either the yeast itself or the fermentation temp. Its been between 58 and 60 degrees in there and I'm wondering if that's too old for fermentation. Is it possible that it could be too cold and if I warm it up it might start again? It did bubble pretty well for the 2nd and 3rd days but slowed down quite a bit after that an now nothing. What do you guys think?

 

[tracer bullet]

You might simply be done. Especially if you pitched a lot of yeast. My RIS's have the majority of fermentation done in a few days.

Take a gravity reading. Then you'll know for sure. I'm guessing you'll find out you are about done, but that is kinda cold so definitely find out for sure.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, the batch of 1.107 stout I pitched last Tuesday evening had hit 1.034 by Saturday morning before we took off to the mountains for a week. S04 running at 64°F over that period, then I've been bumping it by .5°F per day (BrewPi remote control ) to 68°F to finish.

I expect to find it at 1.028 by Sunday when we get home...

Cheers!

 

[InspectorJon]

If you can warm it up to around 70 for a few days. That will help insure it finishes that last bit of fermenting. As Tracer Bullet said, you need to take gravity reading to know when its really done. I have had big beers linger in finishing for a week or more. Those last few points don't matter so much if you are not bottling.

 

[Ragman]

Thanks guys. Im probably just panicking.