Preparing for first AG batch...what should I know?

[Rhuarc]

I have made probably 10 extract batches so far, and am preparing to do my first AG batch. Here is the equipment I have available.

6g kettle
Indoor electric stove
10g rectangular cooler
5g cooler

Either of the coolers can be converted into a MT, and the other one would get a ball valve to be the HLT. I realize that with this setup I may not be able to do a full 5g batch. Some of the questions I have:

Could I heat the Mash water in the kettle, then while the mash is occurring heat 2 batches of sparge water and hold it in one of the coolers? It would be great if I could try to do a full 5g batch. What do you think the feasibility of this is?

If I can't do a 5g batch could I try a 3g batch using this? How would people suggest I go about doing my first AG batch?

Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[kapbrew13]

yes, you can use one cooler as a hot liquor tank.
You probably need, minimum, a 9.5 gallon kettle to do a full 5 gallon batch. I still get boil overs for a 5 gallon batch in my 10gallon kettle.

You might be able to push a 3gallon batch or do a 2.5 gallon batch.

 

[Rhuarc]

yes, you can use one cooler as a hot liquor tank.
You probably need, minimum, a 9.5 gallon kettle to do a full 5 gallon batch. I still get boil overs for a 5 gallon batch in my 10gallon kettle.

You might be able to push a 3gallon batch or do a 2.5 gallon batch.

Ok, if I were to do a 3g batch would you recommend making the larger or smaller cooler into my mash tun? I would be doing batch sparging only.

I am testing doing a 5g boil of water on my stove and it still has 20 degrees to go after 70 minutes. lol

Any suggestions for a good basic hard to screw up recipe for my first AG?

 

[kapbrew13]

Ok, if I were to do a 3g batch would you recommend making the larger or smaller cooler into my mash tun? I would be doing batch sparging only.

I am testing doing a 5g boil of water on my stove and it still has 20 degrees to go after 70 minutes. lol

Any suggestions for a good basic hard to screw up recipe for my first AG?

Use 10G cooler as your mash tun. You'll probably upgrade your kettle later.

To get some AG under your belt, try a SMaSH. You could try a 8lb munich or vienna and a single hop. That should get you a 6.5 - 6.9% ABV brew. Also you'll learn about the single hop and malt that you use.

I used 2.5 gallon to mash, 4 gallon to batch sparge, and boiled down to 3.25.

 

[jhamilt]

I'd suggest using the 10g cooler for the mash tun for a couple reasons. Extra room in your mash tun allows you to do a thinner mash which generally means higher efficiency. I read that in this article
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Effects_of_mash_parameters_on_fermentability_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing
and when I used a thinner mash my efficiency did increase. Also, if you end up getting a bigger brew pot you'll have a big enough mash tun to scale up the recipes.

 

[Rhuarc]

Use 10G cooler as your mash tun. You'll probably upgrade your kettle later.

To get some AG under your belt, try a SMaSH. You could try a 8lb munich or vienna and a single hop. That should get you a 6.5 - 6.9% ABV brew. Also you'll learn about the single hop and malt that you use.

I used 2.5 gallon to mash, 4 gallon to batch sparge, and boiled down to 3.25.

Any suggestions on the hop to use and how much? What type of beer would this make?

I'm going to try throwing something together in Beersmith and see what I come up with. I will be back with more questions I am sure! Lol

Thanks for the help already everyone!

 

[kapbrew13]

Any suggestions on the hop to use and how much? What type of beer would this make?

I'm going to try throwing something together in Beersmith and see what I come up with. I will be back with more questions I am sure! Lol

Thanks for the help already everyone!

Try a hop your interested in that you've never tried. I'm trying a citra hop to see what it's all about. I guess it's close to an ipa with more malt flavor because I used munich.

 

[Rhuarc]

Try a hop your interested in that you've never tried. I'm trying a citra hop to see what it's all about. I guess it's close to an ipa with more malt flavor because I used munich.

Hmmm, with this as a recipe I'm thinking I could make a nice hoppy ipa. I'm trying to keep the cost down though, too bad I don't know anyone who has 6 or 8 oz of hops locally grown I could buy for cheap.

 

[Rhuarc]

When I plug 8lbs of Vienna Malt into Beersmith it tells my my OG will be 1.014! I setup equipment profile for AG 3G boil. Any idea why this is?

 

[kapbrew13]

Hmmm, with this as a recipe I'm thinking I could make a nice hoppy ipa. I'm trying to keep the cost down though, too bad I don't know anyone who has 6 or 8 oz of hops locally grown I could buy for cheap.

I only used 2 oz total and I still get 60+ IBUs, which puts it in the IPA range.

 

[Rhuarc]

I only used 2 oz total and I still get 60+ IBUs, which puts it in the IPA range.

True, I'm forgetting that with only 3g you don't need as much of the other ingredients! Now to figure out the problem with the OG of the Vienna Malt.

 

[periwinkle1239]

Chiming in with my opinion on one of the replies:

You don't need a 10 gal kettle to do 5 gal batches. To the poster who said he gets boil overs doing 5 gal batches with a 10 gal pot, you probably need to work on your technique on watching your heat...I have a 10 gal pot and have never come close to boiling over but I am always watching and adjusting my propane burner.

Having said that, a 6 gal pot is probably too small because when you do AG you're going to end up with 6+ gal to boil after mashing to boil down to 5.25 or so. An 8 gal pot would be sufficient. On a side note, when I do big brews the 10 gal pot is handy because I might have 7-8 gal of wort and boil down to 6ish before starting my 60 min boil with hop additions.

 

[seminoleAle]

Chiming in with my opinion on one of the replies:

You don't need a 10 gal kettle to do 5 gal batches. To the poster who said he gets boil overs doing 5 gal batches with a 10 gal pot, you probably need to work on your technique on watching your heat...I have a 10 gal pot and have never come close to boiling over but I am always watching and adjusting my propane burner.

Having said that, a 6 gal pot is probably too small because when you do AG you're going to end up with 6+ gal to boil after mashing to boil down to 5.25 or so. An 8 gal pot would be sufficient. On a side note, when I do big brews the 10 gal pot is handy because I might have 7-8 gal of wort and boil down to 6ish before starting my 60 min boil with hop additions.

I agree. I use a 8 gal pot with pre boil of 7 gal without boiling over. Keep control of the burner.

 

[tgmartin000]

If you really have your heart set on 5 gal, it would take two boils. I have an 8 gal kettle, and its a pia for me to get 5.5 gal into the fermenter. With my system, I have to boil 8 gal to get 5.5 into the fermenter.

Otherwise with a 6 gal kettle you could probably do a 3 gal batch. Most batches, I still have to use a 8 qt pot as a second boil on my stove, which I add to the main boil when it fits.

So anybody wanna buy a guitar amp to finance my new kettle?

 

[thamajam]

When I plug 8lbs of Vienna Malt into Beersmith it tells my my OG will be 1.014! I setup equipment profile for AG 3G boil. Any idea why this is?

In the description details of the recipe, make sure you select Type: All Grain. I've made this mistake before....

 

[Rhuarc]

In the description details of the recipe, make sure you select Type: All Grain. I've made this mistake before....

Thank you, that did it! lol...

I think for my first batch I will stick with 3g, so if I make a mistake there will be less loss. But I suppose I could go with 2 4g boils, cooling each batch separate, to end up with 5 g total at the end.

 

[mjohnson]

I've boiled 7 gallons in a 7.5 gallon pot. If you use fermcap-s and watch the heat at the start of the boil, you can do it. I tried it because I was outside on a turkey fryer. Even though I was successful, I don't know if I'd give it a try indoors. I'd rather have less beer than a boilover inside.

 

[Rhuarc]

Ok, so here is what I have come up with for my first 3g AG batch... I am taking the suggestion of doing a SMaSH IPA.

Any suggestions? I'm pretty excited about doing this!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 3 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 6.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.5 IBU

Ingredients:
------------------------------------------------
8 lbs Vienna Malt (Germany) (3.5 SRM) 100 %
.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) 16.3 IBU
.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) 12.5 IBU
1.0 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) 16.2 IBU
1.0 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) 6.5 IBU
1.0 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 Days)
1 Pkgs Northwest Ale (Wyeast Labs #1332)

Mash Schedule:
----------------------------
75 min Saacrification 148.0 F



For the Mash I chose "Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge" Is this correct or should I choose Full Body? Or something else?

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I just did a Vienna/Northern Brewer SMaSH and I really suggest the NB as your hops. I'm sure Cascade would be good too, but the NB pairs extremely well with the Vienna. Everyone that has tried it has really enjoyed it. I use an 8 gal pot on my gas stove and haven't had a boilover yet (but I have come close) so I think a 3 gallon batch with your system is reasonable. If you get a larger pot and have issues with temps do a search on "heat stick" that you can use to help bring the pot to a boil if you don't get a outdoor burner.

 

[Rhuarc]

I just did a Vienna/Northern Brewer SMaSH and I really suggest the NB as your hops. I'm sure Cascade would be good too, but the NB pairs extremely well with the Vienna. Everyone that has tried it has really enjoyed it. I use an 8 gal pot on my gas stove and haven't had a boilover yet (but I have come close) so I think a 3 gallon batch with your system is reasonable. If you get a larger pot and have issues with temps do a search on "heat stick" that you can use to help bring the pot to a boil if you don't get a outdoor burner.

Thanks for the tips! I'm trying to stick with a PNW hops and yeast for this IPA. I guess trying to make a regional brew, other than the Vienna Malt, of course!

I will check out the heat stick idea! I like that as an option for doing larger 5g boils on my stove with a little help!

 

[mjohnson]

I'd mash at 152-154ish for a bit more body - maybe look at the medium body setting.

If your yeast isn't super fresh (some stores have sold me 6mo old yeast), you might be under-pitching a bit. If you're setup to make starters, I'd make one. If you don't want to make a starter, but want to pitch the "right" amount of yeast, you could drop the I from IPA and reduce the gravity to 1.050 or so and get away with a single pack.

Check out http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html if you want to play around with pitching rates/yeast viability based on manufacturers dates.

 

[Rhuarc]

Can I make a starter without a stir plate? I would like to keep this in the IPA range if possible.

I adjusted the recipe to the Medium Body setting.

 

[kapbrew13]

Can I make a starter without a stir plate? I would like to keep this in the IPA range if possible.

I adjusted the recipe to the Medium Body setting.

Yes. Get a container that can hold 1-1.5L and swirl it every time you get a chance. Use foil for the lid.

 

[Rhuarc]

In Beersmith it says to batch sparge in 2 steps, first with .4 gal of water, then with 1.94 gal. Why is this different? To my understanding I would do the following.

1) Add the .4 gal to the mash
2) Stir until evenly mixed
3) Run several pints from the ball valve in the MT back into the top until it runs clear,
4) Drain MT into BK
5) Add 1.94 gal
6) Stir until evenly mixed
7) Run several pints until runs clear again
8) Empty into BK

Is this basically how this should work? I want to make sure I get this right!

 

[mjohnson]

You've got the process down. I'm not sure why beersmith suggests breaking the sparge up into those volumes. That has puzzled me too. I usually just split the sparge water equally. Sometimes, I just put it all in at once.

In the end, the purpose is to rinse the grains of the sugar that has been created in the mash. As long as your total volume is correct (i.e. don't sparge with more water than you need) then you can't really do it wrong.

Don't forget to RDWHAHB and enjoy yourself!

 

[Rhuarc]

I will be picking up the stuff to convert my Coleman cooler to a MT tonight, then tomorrow it is of to the LHBS to pick up the grain, hops, and yeast. Can't wait to try this tomorrow evening!

I need to have someone on speed dial in case I run into any problems. lol

 

[Rhuarc]

Ok, so using BeerSmith it said that I should do a 1qt starter since I don't have a stirplate. I put 4oz of DME into boiling water and cooled it to room temp. I pitched the activated yeast pack into it. This all happened last night. I have been gently shaking it every few minutes whenever I can, but I don't see many bubbles in the airlock. I take the airlock off when I shake it to help add a little oxygen in.

When I leave it set I see a yeast cake starting to form on the bottom until I shake it up again. Is this all normal?

 

[kapbrew13]

Ok, so using BeerSmith it said that I should do a 1qt starter since I don't have a stirplate. I put 4oz of DME into boiling water and cooled it to room temp. I pitched the activated yeast pack into it. This all happened last night. I have been gently shaking it every few minutes whenever I can, but I don't see many bubbles in the airlock. I take the airlock off when I shake it to help add a little oxygen in.

When I leave it set I see a yeast cake starting to form on the bottom until I shake it up again. Is this all normal?

Don't use an airlock. Just use a sanitized piece of aluminum foil.
Seeing the yeast layer on the bottom = Success.

 

[duckredbeard]

You are getting great advice on equipment. There are so many options with home brewing.

My input is to develop a means of taking notes easily. I use a timeline chart that also serves as a reminder for approaching critical points. I will look into uploading to google docs and making it available to all. I find it quite intuitive and helpful.

 

[mjohnson]

Also, you are doing far more than most do for their first all grain batch. Its going to turn out great. Do worry to much.

 

[wilserbrewer]

In Beersmith it says to batch sparge in 2 steps, first with .4 gal of water, then with 1.94 gal. !

In the end, the purpose is to rinse the grains of the sugar that has been created in the mash. As long as your total volume is correct (i.e. don't sparge with more water than you need) then you can't really do it wrong.
!

To this effect, I would suggest simply measuring how much more wort you need after completing the first sparge, and this amount will be your second sparge, basicly you are sparging to reach pre boil volume, simply put

 

[Rhuarc]

So I ended up sparging with too much water. Lol... I was supposed to have a preboil volume of 3.6g instead I ended up with 4.3g. My preboil gravity was supposed to be 1.057 instead it is 1.040. I don't want to add any DME, can I do a longer boil to increase my OG or should I just be ok with the fact that this is going to be a weaker beer than I had planned? Any help in the next 30 minutes would be great as that is when the boil should be finished.

I will post up details of my process and questions I have later.

Thanks all!

 

[Rhuarc]

Also, you are doing far more than most do for their first all grain batch. Its going to turn out great. Do worry to much.

Thank you. I tend to take this to the nth degree, sometimes making it more difficult for myself than it needs to be.

 

[poislb]

What was your grain bill? when i do 3 gallon batches i always do 4.25-4.5 gallons preboil. If your doing a 3 gallon batch and ya only wanted 3.6 preboil you would probably end up with 2.5 after boil and 2 gallon into the fermentor. I think your right on the money with the preboil volume, if your og is low its probably cause of efficancy or low grain bill. Maybe add more grain next batch. Its all a tweeking process, Cheers!!

 

[Rhuarc]

What was your grain bill? when i do 3 gallon batches i always do 4.25-4.5 gallons preboil. If your doing a 3 gallon batch and ya only wanted 3.6 preboil you would probably end up with 2.5 after boil and 2 gallon into the fermentor. I think your right on the money with the preboil volume, if your og is low its probably cause of efficancy or low grain bill. Maybe add more grain next batch. Its all a tweeking process, Cheers!!

I will post up all the details for critique later tonight after I am done. I was going off of suggested preboil volumes using Beersmith.

 

[poislb]

If you already added hops its only going to increase your bitterness and really throw off the balance of the beer. When I do a 90 min boil I let it boil for the first 30 min, then at my 60 min mark I add my first hop addition. If you already added your bittering hops, boiling it longer will only make it more bitter. Just do as planned and see how she ends up, took me 3 batches to dial in. No worries, have a brew

 

[Rhuarc]

So my first AG batch is in the books. I want to post a few of the lessons I have learned, as well as ask a few questions regarding how BeerSmith works. I really want to utilize it to its fullest, so I'm hoping someone can help explain all of the numbers.

1) My cooler leaks.
2) My cooler has A LOT of dead space (1.2g)
3) AG is a lot of fun!
4) AG smells good!
5) Don't airlock a starter, use foil instead
6) Have a measuring stick to easily measure water volumes for psarging
7) Holding a steady temp is not that easy.

Now to my questions. I have included screenshots of all the BeerSmith screens as well as the bsmx file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14880066/AG_Beersmith.zip

Recipe
It has a place for me to put in Tot Efficiency. Isn't that calculated instead?

Mash Details
I put in my Tun Deadspace of 1.2g as I measured it, but my Meas Pre Boil Vol came out .36g more than Est. Any ideas why this would be? I used all the correctly measured water valumes that it specified for Mash and Sparge.

Is the Measured Mash Eff. what I actually got? So if I only got 61.3, but the recipe is based on 81.6 does that mean I need to change another number somewhere so it will change my grain bill and hops schedule accordingly?

As you can see my Pre Boil gravity was way below estimated.

Fermentation
Things here were similar to the other screens, again my OG is 1.052, 17 points below what it was supposed to be.

Water Volumes
This is the screen I am most confused about. I think I understand everything under Mash
Under Boil and Fermentation I put in my Meas Pre Boil Vol, but it doesn't change anything. My Est Pre-Boil Vol still shows low. If I deselect the Calc Boil Vol it lets me enter that number, but is that how it is supposed to work?

Then what numbers do I put down under Fermentation/Bottling?


I know I have a lot of questions about this, but please stick with me! This is one of many things I love about this hobby is how detailed I can get. I know this is my first AG batch, but I really want to learn and understand everything about this, especially using the program to calculate all of this.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Reelale]

Now to my questions. I have included screenshots of all the BeerSmith screens as well as the bsmx file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14880066/AG_Beersmith.zip

Recipe
It has a place for me to put in Tot Efficiency. Isn't that calculated instead?

It's a fillable field. You can see your gravities change when you change that value.

Mash Details
I put in my Tun Deadspace of 1.2g as I measured it, but my Meas Pre Boil Vol came out .36g more than Est. Any ideas why this would be? I used all the correctly measured water valumes that it specified for Mash and Sparge.

Check the "Adjust Mash Volume for deadspace" option. It's unchecked in the screenshot. The only other factor would be the grain absorption.

Is the Measured Mash Eff. what I actually got? So if I only got 61.3, but the recipe is based on 81.6 does that mean I need to change another number somewhere so it will change my grain bill and hops schedule accordingly?

Yes. I think checking that deadspace box will bring this in line too. Your gravities were off because you had too much volume. And possibly due to your initial efficiency value. It takes a little time to dial-in your system and efficiencies. The default value is just a starting point. Try that same recipe and change the value to, say, 65%. Your estimated gravities should change.

As you can see my Pre Boil gravity was way below estimated.

Fermentation
Things here were similar to the other screens, again my OG is 1.052, 17 points below what it was supposed to be.

Water Volumes
This is the screen I am most confused about. I think I understand everything under Mash
Under Boil and Fermentation I put in my Meas Pre Boil Vol, but it doesn't change anything. My Est Pre-Boil Vol still shows low. If I deselect the Calc Boil Vol it lets me enter that number, but is that how it is supposed to work?

Then what numbers do I put down under Fermentation/Bottling?

Put your actual numbers here, it's what defines your actual efficiency.

I'm still using Beersmith 1.4, so it's a little different. All of the differences between estimated/measured derive from the efficiency value and subsequently feed your overall brewhouse efficiency for that batch. The estimated values for gravities and volumes are derived from your efficiency value, constants (such as grain absorption), and user-defined variables such as boil off rate, dead-space, duration of boil, etc.

I know I have a lot of questions about this, but please stick with me! This is one of many things I love about this hobby is how detailed I can get. I know this is my first AG batch, but I really want to learn and understand everything about this, especially using the program to calculate all of this.

Thanks in advance!

It'll take a couple of brews to dial in your values, but it will. Good luck.

 

[Rhuarc]

Thanks for the tips!

The efficiency thing seems wierd to me. It's like I have to calculate my efficiency from theis batch, then use that efficiency number on my next batch. Then if I get better efficiency I would have a stronger brew, which I would need to account for on my next batch...is this correct?

What is the difference between Tot Efficiency and Mash Eff? When people say they are getting X efficiency which are they referring to?

EDIT: Woot! Post 100!!

 

[forstmeister]

Your total eff. at the top of the recipe is a value you set when designing the recipe so you know how much fermentables to add. After you enter the OG and FG for the beer, it calculates the actual eff. at the bottom right (on Beersmith 2.0- I am not sure about the layout of the older versions). It will take a few brews for you to dial in your efficiency, but once you do things get much easier.

One thing that may make it easier to design recipes since Beersmith likes to default to 5 gal increments, is design for 5 gallons and then use the scale function to scale it down to your desired volume. That way if you upgrade to a larger kettle you will still have the same recipe as before and can use it again without having to do the grain bill over.