Power for 4 Electric 5500 Watt Heat Elements

[Flathill]

I'm building an Electric Panel to fire 4 Electic 5500 watt heat elements simultaneously. Thinking of powering the 240 volt panel using two 50 or 60 amp span gfci panels. Or If I use just one 100 amp panel how would I obtain the gfci ? Span gfci panels seem to be available up to 60 amps.

 

[TheMadKing]

2 x 60 amp gfci breakers would do it. You need 200amp service

What on earth do you need to fire 4 elements simultaneously for? Are you brewing commercially? Or are you planning to run 2 simultaneous batches and then run again back to back?

 

[Flathill]

Just like to have 4 elements that can be used as needed. Really like to plan and build and listen to the brew members ideas and recommendations. Most likely going to 1 barrel system and 2 elements in the HLT and Boil Kettle. I built a 3 panel system having a element powered from each panel. For HLT, Boil Kettle, & Rims Tube.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm building an Electric Panel to fire 4 Electic 5500 watt heat elements simultaneously. Thinking of powering the 240 volt panel using two 50 or 60 amp span gfci panels. Or If I use just one 100 amp panel how would I obtain the gfci ? Span gfci panels seem to be available up to 60 amps.

This is exactly what I did with my 3bbl brucontrol based panel it runs off 2 60 amp gfci breakers. it can technically be done with 100 amps too.. I used NO/NC relay contacts to prevent more than 4 elements form being on at once. (and yes I am brewing commercially... 4 elements is plenty for 3bbl... 2 elements in each kettle is plenty for 1bbl I dont do back to back brews so zero need for both the HLT and BK to be on at the same time.. I use a rims and one of the 4 elements in my HLT automatically turns off when the rims is activated.

 

[TheMadKing]

This is exactly what I did with my 3bbl brucontrol based panel it runs off 2 60 amp gfci breakers. it can technically be done with 100 amps too.. I used NO/NC relay contacts to prevent more than 4 elements form being on at once. (and yes I am brewing commercially... 4 elements is plenty for 3bbl... 2 elements in each kettle is plenty for 1bbl I dont do back to back brews so zero need for both the HLT and BK to be on at the same time.. I use a rims and one of the 4 elements in my HLT automatically turns off when the rims is activated.View attachment 683633

Smart use of the relays!

 

[Flathill]

When powering from two 60 amp gfci are you feeding both into one control panel to power the heat elements or using more than one panel. Not sure how 100 amp panels are set up with gfic's ? I have seen pool electric panels with a bunch of gfic breakers in the panel feeding individual outlets. This is a really interesting subject as GFIC is very important in the brewery field.

 

[augiedoggy]

When powering from two 60 amp gfci are you feeding both into one control panel to power the heat elements or using more than one panel. Not sure how 100 amp panels are set up with gfic's ? I have seen pool electric panels with a bunch of gfic breakers in the panel feeding individual outlets. This is a really interesting subject as GFIC is very important in the brewery field.

yes both into one panel but the circuits are never combined.. the main power relay is a 4 contact contactor with all 4 hot leads going through it and beyond that both circuits are split up to handle their own dedicated loads. those loads in my panel have their own breakers or fuses protecting each circuit. for example each 5500w element has its own din rail 25a breaker... 2 elements are paired up as being switched on or off with 4 contact allen bradly contactors but power regulation is handled by individual 25a crydom ssrs downstream of these contactors which are switching one pole of the 240v to turn the element on or off.

 

[Bobby_M]

Many ways to do it. First ask yourself if you'll really need to fire all four elements at the same time. You can use switching logic to enable both HLT, Both BK, or One Each and all of those configurations would only need 50 amps. The only reason your HLT and BK would both need full power is if you're planning to brew more than one batch back to back.

100amp GFCI in the main panel, break that down to four 30 amp branches through DIN rail mounted breakers. Each then goes through a 40amp SSR.

OR:

100amp non-GFCI breaker in the main panel run to control panel and use four of these GFCI, 32amp DIN breakers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NTVB0DS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Note that the above GFCI breakers are 240v only as they do not monitor neutral lines. Any 120v circuits would have to be run through a separate GFCI breaker like this one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-10...it+Breaker&qid=1591759876&s=industrial&sr=1-6

 

[augiedoggy]

Many ways to do it. First ask yourself if you'll really need to fire all four elements at the same time. You can use switching logic to enable both HLT, Both BK, or One Each and all of those configurations would only need 50 amps. The only reason your HLT and BK would both need full power is if you're planning to brew more than one batch back to back.

100amp GFCI in the main panel, break that down to four 30 amp branches through DIN rail mounted breakers. Each then goes through a 40amp SSR.

OR:

100amp non-GFCI breaker in the main panel run to control panel and use four of these GFCI, 32amp DIN breakers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NTVB0DS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Note that the above GFCI breakers are 240v only as they do not monitor neutral lines. Any 120v circuits would have to be run through a separate GFCI breaker like this one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-10...it+Breaker&qid=1591759876&s=industrial&sr=1-6

I totally agree in this case
But another case where you might need it is if your not brewing back to back but your brewing larger amounts of beer like a nano or club.... or if your using a herms and dealing with one of the limitations by heating both sparge and strike water in both kettles.

 

[Flathill]

Many ways to do it. First ask yourself if you'll really need to fire all four elements at the same time. You can use switching logic to enable both HLT, Both BK, or One Each and all of those configurations would only need 50 amps. The only reason your HLT and BK would both need full power is if you're planning to brew more than one batch back to back.

100amp GFCI in the main panel, break that down to four 30 amp branches through DIN rail mounted breakers. Each then goes through a 40amp SSR.

OR:

100amp non-GFCI breaker in the main panel run to control panel and use four of these GFCI, 32amp DIN breakers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NTVB0DS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Note that the above GFCI breakers are 240v only as they do not monitor neutral lines. Any 120v circuits would have to be run through a separate GFCI breaker like this one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-10...it+Breaker&qid=1591759876&s=industrial&sr=1-6

Many ways to do it. First ask yourself if you'll really need to fire all four elements at the same time. You can use switching logic to enable both HLT, Both BK, or One Each and all of those configurations would only need 50 amps. The only reason your HLT and BK would both need full power is if you're planning to brew more than one batch back to back.

100amp GFCI in the main panel, break that down to four 30 amp branches through DIN rail mounted breakers. Each then goes through a 40amp SSR.

OR:

100amp non-GFCI breaker in the main panel run to control panel and use four of these GFCI, 32amp DIN breakers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NTVB0DS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Note that the above GFCI breakers are 240v only as they do not monitor neutral lines. Any 120v circuits would have to be run through a separate GFCI breaker like this one: https://www.amazon.com/NDB1L-32C-10...it+Breaker&qid=1591759876&s=industrial&sr=1-6

Presently only need to run two 30 amp elements at a time. I like to plan a system I can modify or upgrade later. Running two more elements would be interesting. Those 30 amp panel mount gfic are interesting, never saw them before.

 

[Bobby_M]

The difference between running a 100amp and 50amp is not trivial. 50amp needs 6 AWG wire and 100 amp needs #2. That's something like $2 a foot vs $7. If you have at least a 200 amp main service and no budget constraints, go for it.

 

[Flathill]

The difference between running a 100amp and 50amp is not trivial. 50amp needs 6 AWG wire and 100 amp needs #2. That's something like $2 a foot vs $7. If you have at least a 200 amp main service and no budget constraints, go for it.

Must remember wire size. The 100amp #2 wire is hard to work with for sure ! Think I will stay with a 50 amp system feeding it with #6 wire which is still stiff wire. Then #10 wire to the 30 amp heat elements.

 

[augiedoggy]

Must remember wire size. The 100amp #2 wire is hard to work with for sure ! Think I will stay with a 50 amp system feeding it with #6 wire which is still stiff wire. Then #10 wire to the 30 amp heat elements.

are you using 6000w or 5500w elements? If 5500w they only draw 23 amps peak (usually slightly less) not 30 and the correct 25 or 30a SO or SJ cable is pretty flexible stuff. I thought you were looking at using 2 50 lines to feed the panel? no #2 wire needed for that plus the 50a GFCI breakers are much more reasonably priced.... you could build a system that only requires the single 50 or 60amp feed but leave room in your panel to add the second circuit later if needed..

 

[augiedoggy]

here is an older pic of whats involved inside my 120a panel. there have been changes since this... primarily 8200w of rims power added.

 

[Flathill]

are you using 6000w or 5500w elements? If 5500w they only draw 23 amps peak (usually slightly less) not 30 and the correct 25 or 30a SO or SJ cable is pretty flexible stuff. I thought you were looking at using 2 50 lines to feed the panel? no #2 wire needed for that plus the 50a GFCI breakers are much more reasonably priced.... you could build a system that only requires the single 50 or 60amp feed but leave room in your panel to add the second circuit later if needed..

Great recommendation ! Build the system with a 60 amp 240 volt feed with space in the panel for a future additional circuit for a 50 or 60 amp feed. Also may go to 6000 watt elements in the future.

 

[Flathill]

here is an older pic of whats involved inside my 120a panel. there have been changes since this... primarily 8200w of rims power added.View attachment 684748

Really nice 120 amp panel. I'm going to look over your electric control brew panel closely. May enlarge componets and see if I can identify them. It helps me understand the system. My present three 20 gallon kettles is a rims set up. The rims tube element is on 120 volt at 1800 watts as I remember. Kind of low watts for mash recirculation. Your 8200 watt rims componets must be big ? My future electric brew system is being planned for my garage renovation.

 

[Bobby_M]

When I brought up the wire size, I was under the impression you may have a relatively long run between the main panel and the brewing location. When I set up my brewing area at my shop, my wire run was 125 feet and that would have been quite a difference in cost and effort between 6/3 and 2/3 romex.

 

[Flathill]

yes both into one panel but the circuits are never combined.. the main power relay is a 4 contact contactor with all 4 hot leads going through it and beyond that both circuits are split up to handle their own dedicated loads. those loads in my panel have their own breakers or fuses protecting each circuit. for example each 5500w element has its own din rail 25a breaker... 2 elements are paired up as being switched on or off with 4 contact allen bradly contactors but power regulation is handled by individual 25a crydom ssrs downstream of these contactors which are switching one pole of the 240v to turn the element on or off.

Good idea to keep the two 60amp 240 volt power feeds separate. I was trying to figure if you were making a 120 amp bus, which would increase wire size. Also could create a short circuit between the two 120 volt phases (L1 & L2) if not wired correctly. Now I know to keep the two 60amp power inlets separated. Very important !