Poor head retention, everything seems ok?

[mario_silent]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum, I have some experience if I could say so myself brewing. I have about 8 batches (5 gallon) out of which 7 are all - grain.
I've been adjusting a few things throughout my learning process and so far so good really, no contaminations so far and good beer mostly.

The thing is, I feel like almost every batch turns out with some poor head retention. I add about 0.5 lb of Carapilsner to every batch to aid in body and I'm actually mashing at 156 for 60 minutes, without any temp losses in my 5 gallon cooler.
I've been brewing some porters, scottish and english mild ales which are naturally low hopped so I'm guessing that's one of the reasons for the low head retention.

The question is, can I compensate for that with some wheat malt or flaked barley? add more carapilsner maybe? I've read flaked barley solves the problem and it's cheaper than carapilsner in another thread.

I rinse my buckets really well so I have no soap residues and my carbonation is at about 2.0 for the styles. I ferment for about 2 weeks in primary and then bottle condition for another 2 weeks. OG is about 1.055 - 1.066. I have some good initial head, but it goes away pretty quickly even though the beer body seems ok to me, it's not poor. Taste is great, carbonation adequate.

Thanks for the attention and sorry for the long post! I like giving as many details as possible

 

[MagicMatt]

I rinse my buckets really well so I have no soap residues and my carbonation is at about 2.0 for the styles. I ferment for about 2 weeks in primary and then bottle condition for another 2 weeks. OG is about 1.055 - 1.066. I have some good initial head, but it goes away pretty quickly even though the beer body seems ok to me, it's not poor. Taste is great, carbonation adequate.

That first sentence quoted raises a red flag. You say you rinse well so you have no soap residues.....but you shouldn't be using soap on your brewing equipment. No amount of rinsing alone will get rid of it. You need to scrub with hot water, steel wool, and salt. Don't even use a sponge that has previously had soap on ot. Get some PBW and use it exclusively on your brewing equipment.

Another likely problem would be if you also clean your glassware with dish soap (or run it through the dish washer). This will be a very big cause of the "no head retention" issue. Again, use hot water and salt on them, even a bit of PBW. And never use soap on them again. The soap and things like JetDry in dishwashers can leave a film behind that will make it next to impossible for nucleation sites to form for good head retention.

 

[mario_silent]

That first sentence quoted raises a red flag. You say you rinse well so you have no soap residues.....but you shouldn't be using soap on your brewing equipment. No amount of rinsing alone will get rid of it. You need to scrub with hot water, steel wool, and salt. Don't even use a sponge that has previously had soap on ot. Get some PBW and use it exclusively on your brewing equipment.

Another likely problem would be if you also clean your glassware with dish soap (or run it through the dish washer). This will be a very big cause of the "no head retention" issue. Again, use hot water and salt on them, even a bit of PBW. And never use soap on them again. The soap and things like JetDry in dishwashers can leave a film behind that will make it next to impossible for nucleation sites to form for good head retention.

Good to know! and yes, all the dishes are being washed with dish soap. Guess I've been making a mistake by washing the buckets and equipment with soap. I'm from Mexico so PBW is a little hard to come by and a bit expensive but I guess I'll get a hold of some when I get the chance.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Kent88]

Looks like you've given this plenty of thought. Matt is right that you need to be careful with what you use to clean up the fermenter and glassware. Another thing you want to keep in mind is what temperatures you are fermenting at. I've read that the fusel alcohols and other by-products of hot fermentations are detrimental to foam retention. Read any materials that come with your yeast and try to keep your fermenting beer at the lower end of the yeasts favored temperature range, starting as soon as you add the yeast and lasting through the first 2 days of vigorous fermentation (krausen). Unless you are brewing a saison-style try to never let your beer temperature get above 72F.

 

[Foosier]

I think head retention is more likely an issue from your bottle conditioning process. 2 weeks is usually the earliest it would be ready depending on temps. You might want to wait longer. Personally, I have experienced the lower head retention when bottling. I switched to kegging and notice no head retention issues once the beer is fully carbed up, which takes 2 full weeks (set and forget method) to get just right. Until it is really fully carbed you really don't get a great head in my opinion.

I say this too as someone who washes with soap, rinses sufficiently and never worries about soap residue on the glassware. I am not saying these are not important considerations, just that those are not the likely root cause of your issues.

 

[mario_silent]

Looks like you've given this plenty of thought. Matt is right that you need to be careful with what you use to clean up the fermenter and glassware. Another thing you want to keep in mind is what temperatures you are fermenting at. I've read that the fusel alcohols and other by-products of hot fermentations are detrimental to foam retention. Read any materials that come with your yeast and try to keep your fermenting beer at the lower end of the yeasts favored temperature range, starting as soon as you add the yeast and lasting through the first 2 days of vigorous fermentation (krausen). Unless you are brewing a saison-style try to never let your beer temperature get above 72F.

I also knew that high alcohols tend to be head killers which explains why my first brew had almost no head but since then, I've been fermenting with US05 and 04 at 62F - 70F Max so thats not a reason. I'm going with the soap I guess, because body is ok, taste is ok, only glassware and equipment remains.

Also I got a question now that you mention the fermentation temps. Do you have to take care of it only during the vigorous fermentation when the airlock is like crazy? I've been keeping it at 66 - 70 all the way until I bottle which is about two weeks after primary and then another 2 weeks in the bottle for conditioning.

Thank you!

 

[slym2none]

Some will recommend "ramping up the temperature" after primary fermentation is done. I have yet to see a good reason for this, it just seems a personal choice. There is no reason you can't keep it at a constant temperature the entire time like you are doing, Mario.

 

[mario_silent]

I think head retention is more likely an issue from your bottle conditioning process. 2 weeks is usually the earliest it would be ready depending on temps. You might want to wait longer. Personally, I have experienced the lower head retention when bottling. I switched to kegging and notice no head retention issues once the beer is fully carbed up, which takes 2 full weeks (set and forget method) to get just right. Until it is really fully carbed you really don't get a great head in my opinion.

I say this too as someone who washes with soap, rinses sufficiently and never worries about soap residue on the glassware. I am not saying these are not important considerations, just that those are not the likely root cause of your issues.

At least now I have a lot of variables to play with haha. I'll try without using Soap, conditioning in the bottle for a little longer and maybe kegging someday. I'm not really into kegging right now because I have no equipment and can't really afford it for now but I'll probably look into it soon since almost everyone seems to favor kegging

Thanks!

 

[Kent88]

Do you have to take care of it only during the vigorous fermentation when the airlock is like crazy? I've been keeping it at 66 - 70 all the way until I bottle which is about two weeks after primary and then another 2 weeks in the bottle for conditioning.

Its my understanding (can't stress that part enough, I haven't studied this formally, but I've heard things from what I believe are credible sources) that you should try to keep temperatures in the yeasts' favored range from the time you add the yeast to wort through bottle carbonating. Before and during vigorous fermentation you should try to keep it at the low end of the yeasts preferred temperature range. So if a yeast prefers an environment between 60F to 70F, I'd try keeping it between 61F to 66F for around the first four days, and then keep it below 70F after that.

I've been told that because the time between adding yeast through the end of krausen is when the yeast are growing and most active that it is the time that most off flavors and undesirable high-temperature compounds can develop. Sounds legitimate to me. I've heard of brewers who will, after the most vigorous part of fermentation is done, allow their beer temperatures to rise a little because the risk off off-flavors and bad compounds forming is lower and higher temperatures (still within the yeasts' comfort range) will speed up the remaining fermentation.

If I could I'd keep the temperature of the bottles at the yeasts' comfort zone all the time, but unless it is a lager I rely on the ambient temperature. I still try to keep them below 72F, though.

 

[mario_silent]

Some will recommend "ramping up the temperature" after primary fermentation is done. I have yet to see a good reason for this, it just seems a personal choice. There is no reason you can't keep it at a constant temperature the entire time like you are doing, Mario.

Maybe it's because of the yeast cleanup phase, I guess ramping up makes them work faster but I wouldn't like to stress them out
I guess I'll keep my temps constant since I've been getting good results. The only downside is having to change iced bottles all the time haha. I got some swamp coolers with very small pumps and wrapped buckets with t-shirts to keep it fresher

Thanks slym2none!

 

[slym2none]

You're welcome! Apparently, either way works, but if you get good results & you are used to doing it this way, no need to change!

I try to keep all my brews (so far) in the 62-64° F range, and find that as fermentation tapers off, I just use fewer ice-bottles to keep my "fermenting chamber" at the same temps.