PLEASE HELP! Any one use BeerSmith?

[Jordan Logo]

Hello All!

I had a question regarding BeerSmith. So far I’ve found the program more confusing than its worth, but I want to use it so bad as it seems like a helpful tool!

My current set up is a 5gallon kettle but I’d like to switch from extract brewing to a BIAB method. Unfortunately with my small kettle I won’t be able to do full batch boils/5gallon batches so I was thinking of doing 3 gallon batches but starting off with about 2-3 gallons of water, mashing my grains, then sparging those grains to hit my target boil volume of around 4 gallons.

How can I input this into BeerSmith? Would I have to make a new equipment profile? Or does anyone use a similar process and have your settings you can share?

Lastly, couldn’t I just cut BeerSmith out all together and just convert my grains from a bigger recipe, start with a fixed boil volume, then sparge with the rest of the water to reach my total boil volume? I feel like I’m over complicating things using BeerSmith.

Thanks!

 

[balrog]

For Beersmith to work well, you must feed it.
Information
It will calculate things well, given information about your systems and procedures.
If it is not told your boil off rate is 1.0 gal per hour, it will remain using default value, for instance.

I have used it for BIAB. I do not sparge. I had to adjust, over several batches, the boil off and grain absorbtion values (options, advanced), until the water volumes were calculated for what I was seeing in practice. One check for water volume only is to take a look at Priceless BIAB calc--I really like that one and gives me a double check.

Scaling recipes "simply" can work, but hop utilization changes with boil size, and I've also read that slight downward adjustments (10-20%) should be made to base grains while leaving specialty grain volumes untouched.

So in short, yes, if you change your equipment, or process, you definitely need to set up an equipment profile, and mash profile, to reflect your equipment and mash. There are some good videos you can watch to help. And yes, it is a lot to take in at the beginning of using Beersmith.

 

[LittleRiver]

Second vote for the Priceless BIAB calculator. It's what I use to plan my water volumes. It's very effective, accurate, and free.

Recipes can be scaled down in a linear fashion, i.e. to make a 2.5gal batch from a 5gal recipe, divide everything by half. As balrog mentioned, you can get into fine tuning your hops and grains when you scale down...that is, if you want to, it's certainly not required. You'll make good beer with a linearly scaled recipe.

Also, you may read that you need to add extra grains to accommodate lower efficiency in BIAB. That could be true if you are using the coarse grind that is required to keep traditional systems from getting a stuck sparge (i.e. the crush you'll get from your local homebrew store, or from most online vendors).

Crush your grains fine for BIAB and you'll hit or exceed recipe targets without adding additional grain. I crush with a mill gap of .025". I realize you probably don't have your own grain mill, but if you're going to go BIAB, make it a priority to get one as soon as you can.

 

[Jordan Logo]

Thanks for the reply guys...

So would something like this work?:

So I’m doing a Lazy Summer IPA by Clawhammer Supply. The original gain bill is:
6lbs Pilsner 2 Row
2lbs Flaked Oats
1lbs Flaked Barley
1lbs Flaked Wheat
Notes: they started with a beginning water volume of 7.98gallons to achieve 5.5gallons into fermenter. OG: 1.047 FG: 1.020 ABV: 3.54

After plugging in their recipe into Brewer’s Friend’s recipe scaler to scale down the recipe to get 3 gallons I ended up with:
3.27lbs Pilsner 2 Row
1.1lbs Flaked Oats
.56lbs Flaked Barley
.56lbs Flaked Wheat

After I converted my grains, I went to Brew365’s Mash and Sparge Water Calculator and it told me I’d need:
5.26 gallons of water total
1.78 gallons for mash @160° for 60min
3.48 gallons for sparge

The part that confuses me is that when I typed in Clawhammer’s recipe onto Brewer’s Friend’s recipe scaler it gave me a totally different amount of water needed. I’m guessing it’s because Clawhammer is doing a full volume boil from the start instead of the sparge?

So would my recipe work even though Brewer’s Friend gave me different water volumes??

 

[balrog]

Were I to do this, then 3 gal into fermenter with no kettle loss (I toss it all in), with grain bill of 3.27+1.1+.56+.56 = 5.49lbs gain, I put all water in my pot, BIAB, no squeeze just 10m drip after mash before boil starts, I have 0.077875 gal/lb absorption = 0.4275gal lost to grain absorbtion; I boil 1 hr and lose 1.0 gal to boil off, I would put
1.0 + .4275 + 3.0 + (no hops given, says IPA so presume 4oz pellet hops means another schnibble water loss so don't calc it, being too small)
= about = 18 qts water.

I would heat 18 qts water. I would calc strike temp with 18 qts water 5.49 lb grain. Given my Corona mill-to-dust milling, I would guess an OG for my system of about 1.050, but I get typ 77%

 

[McKnuckle]

I agree - I hate Beersmith. I use my own highly evolved spreadsheet for recipe calculations.

It really helps to understand where the water goes on the hot side of brewing; if you have a handle on that, you can remove the mystery from the calculators and apply common sense to what they are telling you.

Simply, you have two loss factors with BIAB in a kettle:

1) Grain absorption. Varies from 0.06 gal/lb with a very aggressive bag squeeze to 0.12 gal/lb with a short gravity drain. Factor 0.09 with a long gravity drain (til it just drips).

2) Evaporation. Varies according to kettle diameter, boil vigor, and ambient humidity. Probably anywhere from 0.5 to 0.75 gal/hr with a 5 gallon kettle. More if you boil the s**t out of it on a propane burner. Test with water to estimate a starting value. Wort will boil off a little less than plain water.

Let's say you want 3 gallons in the fermenter. Add grain absorption and evaporation volumes to 3 gallons, and there's your total water volume for the recipe. With BIAB you can mash with all that water at once, or split it up between mash and sparge any way that is convenient.

This is the simple version. If a precise packaged volume is really important to you (I think most people care too much about that), then you can also include loss to trub in both the kettle and the fermenter, and add those small volumes to the total water as well.

 

[Jordan Logo]

I agree - I hate Beersmith. I use my own highly evolved spreadsheet for recipe calculations.

It really helps to understand where the water goes on the hot side of brewing; if you have a handle on that, you can remove the mystery from the calculators and apply common sense to what they are telling you.

Simply, you have two loss factors with BIAB in a kettle:

1) Grain absorption. Varies from 0.06 gal/lb with a very aggressive bag squeeze to 0.12 gal/lb with a short gravity drain. Factor 0.09 with a long gravity drain (til it just drips).

2) Evaporation. Varies according to kettle diameter, boil vigor, and ambient humidity. Probably anywhere from 0.5 to 0.75 gal/hr with a 5 gallon kettle. More if you boil the s**t out of it on a propane burner. Test with water to estimate a starting value. Wort will boil off a little less than plain water.

Let's say you want 3 gallons in the fermenter. Add grain absorption and evaporation volumes to 3 gallons, and there's your total water volume for the recipe. With BIAB you can mash with all that water at once, or split it up between mash and sparge any way that is convenient.

This is the simple version. If a precise packaged volume is really important to you (I think most people care too much about that), then you can also include loss to trub in both the kettle and the fermenter, and add those small volumes to the total water as well.

Thank you! So simple - I think I read too much and over complicated things lol

 

[Jordan Logo]

Were I to do this, then 3 gal into fermenter with no kettle loss (I toss it all in), with grain bill of 3.27+1.1+.56+.56 = 5.49lbs gain, I put all water in my pot, BIAB, no squeeze just 10m drip after mash before boil starts, I have 0.077875 gal/lb absorption = 0.4275gal lost to grain absorbtion; I boil 1 hr and lose 1.0 gal to boil off, I would put
1.0 + .4275 + 3.0 + (no hops given, says IPA so presume 4oz pellet hops means another schnibble water loss so don't calc it, being too small)
= about = 18 qts water.

I would heat 18 qts water. I would calc strike temp with 18 qts water 5.49 lb grain. Given my Corona mill-to-dust milling, I would guess an OG for my system of about 1.050, but I get typ 77%

Thank you!!

 

[kh54s10]

I don't BIAB and have found BS to be a little confusing in that respect. I also have not put any effort to figure out BIAB with it.

Beersmith is a GREAT program. But it is just a tool, you have to learn how to use it. I don't have the knowledge to create my own spreadsheet etc and wouldn't take the time to try to figure that out.

There are a lot of instructional videos in the help tab. Watch them all. Probably several times...

 

[balrog]

I personally like my spreadsheets. But that's the problem. I have too many. Okay, technically they are tabs, but you get the gist. And a spreadsheet is no substitute, long term, for a real database (like BeerSmith is oriented), no matter how much you like to dilly dally with cell references, H&VLookUp() functions, and the like. I actually use both. And BrewersFriend. It's a sickness.

 

[Oginme]

I used to do process modeling and one of the biggest issues users have is that the model is written from the perspective of the modeler. To other people using the model, it may or may not be so easy to understand how the program is operating. BeerSmith is a very powerful tool when used correctly. All of the key inputs to allow the user to get it to match their process are pretty much there. Finding them can be a bit perplexing and the logic that BeerSmith uses is certainly not one that I would have selected. This in itself causes many users the same head scratching that you are doing right now.

The key to getting anywhere in BeerSmith is to have a solid equipment profile. The second to that is to understand the limitations built into the program. One such limitation is that the program considers all BIAB to be a full volume mash or a no sparge mash process. So in order to get it to fit your process, you need to forget that you are using a bag and treat it as if you have a standard mash tun. Doing so requires that you become familiar with the settings and how to adjust them so that you can set the grain absorption coefficient for the standard process to match what you will get with your BIAB process. This coefficient is found in the 'options' section and is a global or universal setting [like I said, not the way I would have modeled the system].

After that, doing a dry run or using previous brew data to get starting numbers for kettle losses, boil off rates, trub losses, etc. will help to fill out the equipment profile. These figures can always be adjusted when you get more information. As you go through a brew session, the more accurate the measurements you take and feed back into the program, the better the program will be at calculating back to you your actual efficiencies to improve your equipment profile further.