pilsner malts in ales

[mandoman]

so i made a blond ale with about 40% pilsner malts against 50% 2-row and a bit of corn sugar. I was going for light body, dry finish but highish alcohol. Good beer. It tastes a little bit malt-liqoury, granted, it's only about 4 weeks. I'm wondering if this is an effect of the pilsner - never really used this malt in my own beers - or if I'm seeing an effect of the corn sugar, but I only used about a pound in the boil of 10 gallons. I had used honey in this beer before, with no pilsner malts, and did not get this 'malt-liquory' flavor. 'prece



cb

 

[homebrewer_99]

Basically, what makes a brew an ale or a lager is the yeast and fermentation temperture.

For HBers it's open as to what malts you use, unless you are trying to stay exactly within the guidelines of a style.

 

[mandoman]

hb i can dig it, i'm just wondering if 'that's how pilsner malts taste in a beer' sort of thing or whether it's the alcohol/corn sugar coming through the lighter malts. I guess I should say i mostly make pale ales so that's my pallate base


cb

 

[Edcculus]

Its probably the sugar.

 

[menschmaschine]

What hops/schedule/IBUs and yeast did you use? Pilsner malt is used in a lot of Belgian ales and corn sugar is used in some (like Duvel) and they don't seem to have the flavor you're describing. Also, 4 weeks is not that long, so the flavor will probably change for the better in time.

 

[mandoman]

thanks for asking, mens.

10 lb pilsner
10 lb 2-4oy
1 lb rice flakes
1 lb corn in boil
safale 04
2 oz saaa 60
1 oz saaz o in

mashed low at 149 for a 60 min single infusion
13 days on yeast at about 70 F

in keg 2 weeks

I just can't imagine that 1 lb sugar would taste that strong

Oh, BTW, this was my first 10 gallon batch so I guess it could be process-related

cb

 

[menschmaschine]

That's a very interesting recipe. It's kind of a cross between Belgian, American, and English ales. Did you create it? Depending on the IBUs of the Saaz (which are usually low), that might be why you're tasting so much maltiness. The S-04 may have just not had quite enough character to balance the malt/hops. I'd be interested to see how this tastes in a few weeks.

 

[King of Cascade]

That's a very interesting recipe. It's kind of a cross between Belgian, American, and English ales. Did you create it? Depending on the IBUs of the Saaz (which are usually low), that might be why you're tasting so much maltiness. The S-04 may have just not had quite enough character to balance the malt/hops. I'd be interested to see how this tastes in a few weeks.

and german

It's the lack of hops and the sugar that make it taste like malt liquor.

I was going for light body, dry finish but highish alcohol

sounds like that's what you were going for. malt liquor

 

[mandoman]

definitely made up the recipe. I was going for a lawnmower style beer with high alcohol. I guess I figured it would taste better than king cobra, which it does, but it has that flava, brah.

I have 10 gallons and will bottle some - I'd be happy to trade!


cb

 

[menschmaschine]

and german

Saaz are Czech and (in addition to Bohemian) used in both Belgian and German beer. If the pilsner malt was German, I'll give you that.

 

[Saccharomyces]

so i made a blond ale with about 40% pilsner malts against 50% 2-row and a bit of corn sugar. I was going for light body, dry finish but highish alcohol. Good beer. It tastes a little bit malt-liqoury, granted, it's only about 4 weeks. I'm wondering if this is an effect of the pilsner - never really used this malt in my own beers - or if I'm seeing an effect of the corn sugar, but I only used about a pound in the boil of 10 gallons. I had used honey in this beer before, with no pilsner malts, and did not get this 'malt-liquory' flavor.

Probably the Pils malt flavor. I really like it for lighter brews, to me a Pils SMaSH always makes a great beer, you just have to be really careful to avoid DMS since there is nowhere for it to hide in a light beer.

 

[homebrewer_99]

The corn sugar would contribute to the dryness...

 

[Reverend JC]

In my exp with using pils malt (4 times) i have noticed an almost honey like perfume smell while boiling and the same only muted when drinking. Granted, the only pils malt i have used was briess. I have 20lbs of conitental pils at home i should try that and see if it has the same effect.

 

[King of Cascade]

Saaz are Czech and (in addition to Bohemian) used in both Belgian and German beer. If the pilsner malt was German, I'll give you that.

Easy now lets not get too technical. Just trying to back up your claim that the recipe is all over the place.

 

[mandoman]

all over the place geographically, I suppose.

 

[BarleyWater]

I really don't think that 1 lb of sugar in 10 gallons would make a very large difference, so I am putting my money on the Pils malt. It could give that slightly corny, malt liquor flavor.

I have noticed that when using Pils malts, my mash and first 20 minutes or so of my boil, smell like corn tortillas from all the SMM (DMS precursor) being driven off. Did you boil for at least 90 minutes? If not, you may have a hint of DMS, leading to a Malt Liqour like flavor.

 

[menschmaschine]

Easy now lets not get too technical. Just trying to back up your claim that the recipe is all over the place.

I was only messin'

 

[mandoman]

90 min boil. Part of this brew was to experiment with pilsner malt. I didn't intentionally brew a typical (for me) beer and just add some pilsner, but it is pretty similar to my other 'typical' styles using mostly 2row. If I assume I did most of the things the same, despite the fact that it was essentially a new system, I'm leaning toward the pilsner taste, too. Hopefully my palate now understands the pilsner taste. I wish I would have known to smell for tortillas at the beginning of the boil!

cb

 

[menschmaschine]

Just out of curiosity, was it American, Belgian, or German Pilsner? I've never used Am. pilsner, but I've noticed a slight flavor difference between Belgian and German pilsner malts.

 

[mandoman]

you know, I can only assume it was briess. I get bulk grains, crystal, and the other stuff I use a lot from Asheville Brewers Supply (great place if you're close, and great beer town). But there is a winery not to far from me and they sell some homebrew stuff. I went down there to see what, if any, hops they had and actually got chinook and amarillo pellets for just under $3oz. Anyway, I got some specialty grains while there and they just have a list, go in the back and scoop 'em out, and give 'em to ya in a ziplock baggie. If they had a website i'd check it but they don't. They don't have much of anything but the 2 row I got from they a long time ago was briess.

I'm learning, though, that it makes a big difference malt-wise where they're from, eh?

 

[Germey]

Probably the Pils malt flavor. I really like it for lighter brews, to me a Pils SMaSH always makes a great beer, you just have to be really careful to avoid DMS since there is nowhere for it to hide in a light beer.

+1, Pilsner malt will produce significantly more DMS than others.

 

[Saccharomyces]

+1, Pilsner malt will produce significantly more DMS than others.

And I've had a few homebrews (not mine!) which had DMS from pils malt.