Picobrew Z

[Mike Howard]

Folks that ignore posts, report posts and block users are generally not fit for public conversation, since they can't handle others opinions...If you are blocking content, I don't know why you would hang around in this thread...that being said Picobrew generally does a very decent job at making a disaster of it themselves.

It's really very simple. Do what you say you are going to do. If you miss the mark, make up for it. Everyone on here just wants to know what's going on with their investment money and when can they expect a product? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to project out a timeline on when you might see a product reach the market. It happens every day in nearly every company. Product/Project forecasting is a daily occurrence, not sure why Pico can't handle it.

If you say you are going to give weekly updates, give weekly updates. If you say you are going to introduce product internals, do it. If you say you are going to produce a product better than the last, then show folks how you upgraded. I'm not sure why anyone would defend a company that fails to do what they say?

 

[Trevor Mack]

Update posted... https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=007d0e755e5300f5291fa2a6e&id=d31358ef5f

I'll let you judge if there is any weight behind this post given the extra week to get it out.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Update posted... https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=007d0e755e5300f5291fa2a6e&id=d31358ef5f

I'll let you judge if there is any weight behind this post given the extra week to get it out.

Good for them if they are finally delivering.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Sounds like a few more beta units have been produced and out for delivery, probably the 7 or so in a previous "production assembly line" photo shared. Nothing to say that these aren't similar beta units to PBN individuals that got reached out to explicitly for testing early stage versions of the Z1 line. Hope their experiences help to make ours better.

 

[Anyhowe]

Sounds like a few more beta units have been produced and out for delivery, probably the 7 or so in a previous "production assembly line" photo shared. Nothing to say that these aren't similar beta units to PBN individuals that got reached out to explicitly for testing early stage versions of the Z1 line. Hope their experiences help to make ours better.

I would expect so. It would be nice to hear the incremental changes, but it’s not a deal breaker for me.

 

[Mike Howard]

Deal breakers usually don't occur for employees....

 

[passedpawn]

Buttheads also tend to Report a lot of posts....

You are becoming a nuisance. Check yourself, or be checked, your choice.

 

[passedpawn]

Haha, there are a few idiots on this thread

Cut that out. I have a short fuse for that kind of talk. That goes for everyone on this thread. I don't care who did what before.

 

[Lax coach]

Another week, another missed update (and not much of an update 2 weeks ago). Just cancelled my Z2 order, waiting for confirmation. My order was relatively early, think I qualified for all the freebies except the custom keg koozie.

I'm 90% likely going with a Brew Boss 15 gallon COFI, but am also considering the Grounded Brewtech BIABasket, or custom Spike kettles and a controller.

I'm going to keep following the thread, because I am still curious to see what the final product looks like, and what folks think of it. I just don't want to wager my own money on it anymore

 

[Conodor]

The lack of updates is the part i'm concerned most with. I understand parts are delayed, design changes and high expectations. But when you can't give an update, that gives the customer the impression there is no progress.

From the point, the "1st one shipped" there has been almost no information. That makes me feel something really went wrong.

 

[gamerc]

To whom did you send your cancellation notification/request?

 

[Brewfreedom]

Another week, another missed update (and not much of an update 2 weeks ago). Just cancelled my Z2 order, waiting for confirmation. My order was relatively early, think I qualified for all the freebies except the custom keg koozie.

I'm 90% likely going with a Brew Boss 15 gallon COFI, but am also considering the Grounded Brewtech BIABasket, or custom Spike kettles and a controller.

I'm going to keep following the thread, because I am still curious to see what the final product looks like, and what folks think of it. I just don't want to wager my own money on it anymore

For $2800 you can get yourself the full blown spike+ 20 gallon As a custome kettle order (and triclamps/valves plumbing in that price) minus the controller and pumps. Use hose head or grounded brewing’s controller for $500-$1000 and throw in 2 $100 pumps for a full blown eherms. That’s more automated than a z4 and z2. Good luck cleaning all those step filters!

 

[Lax coach]

To whom did you send your cancellation notification/request?

I opened a case under "question about an existing order". No response yet, but historically they typically take a day or so.

For $2800 you can get yourself the full blown spike+ 20 gallon As a custome kettle order (and triclamps/valves plumbing in that price) minus the controller and pumps. Use hose head or grounded brewing’s controller for $500-$1000 and throw in 2 $100 pumps for a full blown eherms. That’s more automated than a z4 and z2. Good luck cleaning all those step filters!

I'm pretty sure I don't want a 3-vessel, and I'm definitely not looking to spend four grand. A fully kitted-out Brew Boss will run about $2k, Grounded BIAB would be a few hundred cheaper. Alternatively I'd look at doing a 2-vessel RIMS or K-RIMS setup, possibly with an Auber Cube2.

 

[Brewfreedom]

I opened a case under "question about an existing order". No response yet, but historically they typically take a day or so.



I'm pretty sure I don't want a 3-vessel, and I'm definitely not looking to spend four grand. A fully kitted-out Brew Boss will run about $2k, Grounded BIAB would be a few hundred cheaper. Alternatively I'd look at doing a 2-vessel RIMS or K-RIMS setup, possibly with an Auber Cube2.

Just a comparison of how utterly out of whack the pricing is on the larger z’s. Can go full retard cheaper than the preorder on the bigger z. Either way you are saving cash and getting a better system.

 

[Conodor]

I'd like to hear how the refund goes. Please post any updates. If no new updates come from pico on the Z, I will probably cancel my Z2 and Still order. It's been long enough.

 

[jcaiola]

I received a prompt refund - despite them offering me some things to sweeten the pot and my saying okay, let me think about it. So, I am now refunded.

 

[Lax coach]

I received a prompt refund - despite them offering me some things to sweeten the pot and my saying okay, let me think about it. So, I am now refunded.

Can you share what route you took to request the refund, and how long it took? I chose my timing because the 5-10 day estimate I've heard would have my money back in my pocket before a potential BF sale at Brew Boss, and I want to make sure I don't miss that target.

 

[Mike Howard]

Just email [email protected] and reference your sales order number, which you can find on the Picobrew web site once you log in. Just look in the upper right corner for your username, select the arrow to expand the drop down and select Orders.

 

[Gut Pile]

I wonder why they decided to go dark on the updates?

 

[Lax coach]

I wonder why they decided to go dark on the updates?

I don't know, but that's what's gotten to me, and ultimately led me to cancel my order (twice now, we'll see if the web ticket or the email to sales@ gets responded to first).

To digress for a minute, I ordered a skateboard with brakes for my son in its design phase, and it was delivered well over a year after initially promised. But they sent regular updates about where they were with tooling, how the initial pre-production units generated too much heat and could wear out the bearings prematurely, so they had to redesign the brakes and go back to manufacturing, etc. Throughout the extended process I felt I had a decent idea of what was going on and why they weren't hitting their dates. So informed, I chose to be ok with that. The final product was really cool, even if my son is still too scared of falling off to actually use it

The difference here is that we have a defined schedule for updates that Pico has committed to and is not delivering. That's very different than not hitting the release date for a complex mechanical product. Sending an email costs nothing, and the production lead time is very short. Worse, most of the updates are fluff. I'm ok with the units being late--I'm sure there are good reasons--but talk to me. What problems have you run into, and how are you solving them? How many early production units are in the wild, and what's the feedback? Good and bad. What things still need tweaking? When does the next batch of pilot units go out? How many iterations do you expect the pilot period to be? If the pilot goes well, what is the earliest potential shipping date? If it doesn't, how much will that extend the timeline? How fast will production ramp up once everything is squared away?

If they choose not to share any of these things--and it's admittedly unreasonable to expect them to share them all--the logical conclusion is that they either don't have any idea, or are afraid of what the reaction will be when they make that information public. Neither of those possibilities gives me the warm and fuzzies.

As it stands, the last update that contained any substance whatsoever was October 12th, when they talked a little bit about their testing process. That was over a month ago, and they've only had two "employee profile" emails since then, one of which also mentioned sous vide. That's great. I can do sous vide in my current Pico. Or my instant pot. Or in a home depot bucket with a $100-150 accessory. I spent $2600 on this thing because I want to brew beer. Tell me how that's going.

 

[jcaiola]

I think you pretty much captured my own thoughts. What was different about my refund ask, was that I actually told them I would consider them “sweetening the pot” with another keg or some pick paks and hold off on the refund request (my hopes were that maybe their next email would tell me they were shipping or similar). They responded to that saying thanks and then refunded my order anyway. So, they’re not even listening well anymore.

I did ask about a timeline and was told on Nov. 6th: “I do expect our leadership team to put more focus into communicating a shipping schedule in the next couple of weeks, as we've been posting them on these concerns about the Z and shipping times” in response to my query.

Then they canceled the order and missed the next update.

Third batch on the Brewie (since last Monday) goes in tonight.

Joe

 

[Brolie]

just an update. i heard from Ryan at pico today that they shipped 50 beta units and that they are firing up their mass production assembly line early next year.

"We are shipping roughly 50 of them for Beta testing, then in the early new year our mass production line will be fired up to get all of the pre-orders out to everyone."

 

[Lax coach]

I got a response back from the ticket I opened yesterday. It offered an additional keg and a few Z-Packs if I was willing to hang on, and asked for specific feedback. So here's what I provided:

Thanks for the reply and generous offer. I would however still like to cancel my order. My reasoning is the lack of transparency in the four months since missing the original target date of July. I get that hardware is hard, and that unexpected problems show up. I'm not upset about the date being missed, and in fact I suspected that would be the case back in February, and placed my pre-order anyway.

The problem for me is that Pico committed to regular status updates to help your paid customers understand what was really going on with the development process. Those updates have not been delivered regularly or timely, and for the most part have been devoid of any actual details. We don't know what the feedback was from the first unit whose delivery was trumpeted in one update, nor if any other test units have gone out. We don't know anything about challenges you've run into, and what you have done or are doing to overcome them. We don't have even a rough idea of what the current projected timeline is for the first full-production Z1s to ship, let alone those of us like myself who ordered the larger units, which were always expected to ship later. This is not a way to allay concerns of your enthusiastic customers who have collectively paid out over $4M for a product that they might receive at some indeterminate future date.

Thanks again for your response and concern, and I will continue to use my Pico Pro while I plan my next move.

 

[Conodor]

Well said. I will probably send mine tomorrow. I'm looking at options before i pull the trigger.

 

[cheesemonster]

Very well said Lax Coach. I agree 100%. When I ordered it my wife was saying oh our machine is coming in July. I said I'd be surprised it shipped this year. I was right about it. Picobrew is not a new company anymore they should have done the research and had a machine near production before promising a release 5 months later. And if they are going to have a kickstarter like launch well then you better give realistic and brutally honest updates. All these updates have been about putting on the "finishing touches" and crap like that. There isn't any substance. They have to understand that they have a crowd of enthusiasts that don't mind waiting if they are being given honest feedback. I'm going to cancel my order too. I am not even sure if they are going to honor the zymatic trade in since nothing has been said about that since and I was billed the full amount plus shipping ahead of time.

 

[Brewfreedom]

So glad I got out. When the Zymatic worked it was great but I don't see these guys lasting much longer if this is how they execute the development and release of what is supposed to be their flagship product. Whomever floated the July release date should probably be fired.

 

[Mike Howard]

just an update. i heard from Ryan at pico today that they shipped 50 beta units and that they are firing up their mass production assembly line early next year.

Who is Ryan?

So what I glean from this, is that it will have taken them nearly a year to launch the Z1 and get into full production/delivery mode. So if I think about the Z2 and beyond, I can assume delivery of those units in late 2019/early 2020?

There has not been one shred of information released about Z2 software, hardware, or delivery, which is disappointing. Communication is key.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Who is Ryan?

So what I glean from this, is that it will have taken them nearly a year to launch the Z1 and get into full production/delivery mode. So if I think about the Z2 and beyond, I can assume delivery of those units in late 2019/early 2020?

There has not been one shred of information released about Z2 software, hardware, or delivery, which is disappointing. Communication is key.

July 2019!

 

[jcaiola]

I thought I read somewhere the PicoBrew was owned or infused with cash from InBev or someone like that. Would be interesting why the parent or the investor wouldn’t help with their prototyping and manufacturing.

I did my third batch on the Brewie last night and now have three fermenting in my fastferment conicals. First time in a long time I’ve been able to do that so quickly. System feeds from household connection for water (as needed) - which I run through a 5 micron filter- saving a bunch of time.

Huge note here - the cooling cycle on the Brewie has consistently brought my wort down to 65 degrees in under twenty minutes for all three brews. This while directly connects to my filtered household water. No problems, effortless.

Now... I have to run a full clean on the system tonight, after running the short clean and sanitizing clean between brews. If that goes smooth - which I anticipate, then this was definitely the right way to go for me.

I’ll be doing a side by Sid sometime over the holidays.

 

[Mike Howard]

Someone posted that ABInBev is a monetary contributor...whether or not they own part of the company is not publicized. Folks may have theories or claim to know, but I've never seen anything published to the public...

PS...I like the look of that Brewie. Definitely more modern looking than the Zymatic and even the Z1 with that display...just my opinion though.

 

[jcaiola]

It seems they - Brewie - were listening to all of the requests we all made for our Zymatics and did their best to incorporate them.

 

[Brewfreedom]

While helping out the new owner of my old Zymatic with an error #1 due to brewing in a cold garage. The "resume from last brew" under the help feature appears to not throw error #1 despite the temperature issues/cold start. So if your brew $hits the bed - resume from Help rather than restart /skip the steps to where you left off.

 

[gamerc]

When I placed this order I thought I would retire the grain father and move fully into the automation of the z2. I looked hard at the brewie but I wasn’t convinced they were ready for prime time. I’m still seeing a few issues in their thread but I assume there will be issues with the z2 as well.

I’m not sure which direction I’m going, but I cancelled my order as well. I’m sure they will come out and be a good product but I was hoping for more at this point. I’ve got the gf for now so maybe I’ll bite on a new brewie if they have a Black Friday sale or something.

 

[jcaiola]

Since I’ve had the Brewie on 11/5, I’ve ran three full brews with no issue, clean-up was a breeze, and all this with very limited free time. I’ll know how these babies taste in several weeks. Grain bags are on their way. I’m going to kick off more next week.

 

[cheesemonster]

Since I’ve had the Brewie on 11/5, I’ve ran three full brews with no issue, clean-up was a breeze, and all this with very limited free time. I’ll know how these babies taste in several weeks. Grain bags are on their way. I’m going to kick off more next week.

I am interested in this product potentially but I am concerned that I don't read much about it or see many YouTube vids from people not actively part of Brewie or associated with it.

I sent a request to cancel my Z2 and I am considering building my own HERMS system now. I went with the Z2 preorder due to PicoBrew having excellent customer service, but was definitely not thrilled that it just seemed to be 2 Zymatic 2.0s working together to make a 5gal batch in 2 different kegs (lots of cleaning!). The fact that they massively overpromised and really there is no release in sight and they aren't being frank with us pushed me over the edge.

 

[Brolie]

just canceled my pico z2 order and bought a brewie+

hope i made the right decision. and i hope pico gets my money back quickly or SWMBO is going to murder me.

 

[Conodor]

I send an email for my cancelation yesterday. still no reply. With all the cancelations you would think they would muster up some form of an update.

 

[cheesemonster]

I haven't had a reply yet either. I sent my cancellation in yesterday. I think from this thread alone they have a 5 figure loss of money. I still think they are a decent company so I am sure they will reply soon.

 

[jcaiola]

Brolie - I have been happy so far. Three brews and more starting coming up next week (late because of the holidays) and I have a wedding this weekend.

I also added tons of grain so I’ve got a lot of brewing to do.

 

[Lax coach]

I send an email for my cancelation yesterday. still no reply. With all the cancelations you would think they would muster up some form of an update.

I haven't had a reply yet either. I sent my cancellation in yesterday. I think from this thread alone they have a 5 figure loss of money. I still think they are a decent company so I am sure they will reply soon.

I don't think this thread is a representative population. It would surprise me if they're seeing a sudden rash of cancellations, despite there being several here in the past week.

For reference, I put my request in very very early Tuesday morning (Like 2am PicoBrew time ), and I got a response Wednesday evening. So that's two business days for me. Times might be getting a little longer heading into a holiday week, not sure how their support team is structured.