pH adjustment - acids and salts

[jacketsdb23]

I'm pretty well versed in single infusion all-grain brewing. I'm usually always a bit low on my pre-boil OG - by the same amount, every time. Only thing I haven't played with is my water chemistry and I'm looking into that now.

From my city water report (Walnut Creek, CA) - our hardness and alkalinity are all low. From the report:

Ca = 5 ppm
Mg = 1 ppm
Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 20 - 30 ppm

Using John Palmers approximate pH of 100% base malts - my resulting pH would be about 5.75 or the top end of recommendation. If I use Palmer's method of adding salts for pH correction, i run way off the chart and would need to add more Ca via CaSO4 or CaCl2 and would impart way more SO4 or Cl2 than I would want to get to a pH of 5.2.

I typically brew only IPA's and have read a pH of 5.2 is the goal. Can I add CaSO4 to add Ca and SO4 (both needed anyway for IPA profile) and then add Lactic acid to further reduce the pH?

Also - I have the 5.2 stabilizer, but have been told it doesn't work. I have used it before, but never got to the point of playing with the water chemistry and actually measuring pH. Now I'm at a point where I think I can handle it.

 

[balrog]

Water chem is quite the rabbit hole to go down, I suggest starting by reading the Simple Water Chem primer on this site.

 

[CodeSection]

I'm pretty well versed in single infusion all-grain brewing. I'm usually always a bit low on my pre-boil OG - by the same amount, every time. Only thing I haven't played with is my water chemistry and I'm looking into that now.

From my city water report (Walnut Creek, CA) - our hardness and alkalinity are all low. From the report:

Ca = 5 ppm
Mg = 1 ppm
Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 20 - 30 ppm

Using John Palmers approximate pH of 100% base malts - my resulting pH would be about 5.75 or the top end of recommendation. If I use Palmer's method of adding salts for pH correction, i run way off the chart and would need to add more Ca via CaSO4 or CaCl2 and would impart way more SO4 or Cl2 than I would want to get to a pH of 5.2.

I typically brew only IPA's and have read a pH of 5.2 is the goal. Can I add CaSO4 to add Ca and SO4 (both needed anyway for IPA profile) and then add Lactic acid to further reduce the pH?

Also - I have the 5.2 stabilizer, but have been told it doesn't work. I have used it before, but never got to the point of playing with the water chemistry and actually measuring pH. Now I'm at a point where I think I can handle it.

After you have read the 41 pages from the above link, you will probably realize 5.2 pH Stabilizer is not a magic cure. I have never used it and I believe most, if not all, serious brewers don't use it.

Since you already have your city water report (though that may change depending upon the year), try using a FREE pH Program like Mash Made Easy to properly guide you and give you recommendations. Here is the link https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/

Good luck!

 

[balrog]

...and be wary of using calculators as they assume certain dipH properties of average grains
I put values into 6 different calculators and they can vary significantly
I do measure pH of mash and repeatably make repeat recipes generally repeatably

If you are not ready to measure pH, accurately with good meter, there is almost no point in assuming a calculator will be spot on, and you might not need spot on anyway. That's why I recommend taking the simple @ajdelange approach in the primer post as a first shot at this.

 

[jacketsdb23]

Great suggestion. I ended up downloading Bru'n Water spreadsheet. Looks like I can add 2 gram/gal CaSO4 and 3.4 ml of lactic acid in the mash, and 2 gram/gal CaSo4 and 1.7 ml lactic in the sparge to get my pH around 5.2. That worksheet is pretty comprehensive.

I have a pH meter and will start using it.

 

[CodeSection]

...and be wary of using calculators as they assume certain dipH properties of average grains
I put values into 6 different calculators and they can vary significantly...

So, so true. Here is a link regarding just that on my recent (yesterday) first hand experience. Of the three programs, only one got it right while the others were way off.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mash-made-easy-is-solid.670256/

 

[jjw5015]

Your OG is low, but is your volume high?

 

[jacketsdb23]

My volume on my first 10 gallon setup was good. When I hit my recipe pre-boil volume I had some wort left in my mash tun at a SG of about 1.014. I stopped at that point and my pre-boil gravity was around 1.051 and the recipe stated 1.058. I added some DME near the end of the boil based on gravity reading at that time. I ended up with my recipe gravity of 1.062 post boil and right around 10.5 gallons. Pretty happy with that....but it would be nice to dial in an efficiency (either better mashing through technique and water chemistry) or adjusting my efficiency in the recipe (more grain).

 

[sicktght311]

Sounds like your issue is more in narrowing down your efficiencies, boil volumes, grain absorption rates, etc. Even before i was adjusting my pH, i never had issues with hitting the same efficiency within 1 or 2 points based on my recipes. Have you done boil off tests? It might be smart to build a basic recipe, with your assumed efficiency, boil off, grain absorption, etc numbers, and then see where you're at every step of the way and adjust as needed. Within 2-3 brews you should have expectations pretty locked in if you're using the same process and same equipment

 

[bracconiere]

single infusion all-grain brewing

after about 45min of the mash, try ramping the mash temp up to ~161f, and let it sit for another 20mins...gave me a boost from 83% to ~90%

(footnote, i add gluco to all my brews so i have no idea how it effects fermentability)

I have never used it and I believe most, if not all, serious brewers don't use it.

true, way, way, way, back. i used it. then i got a ph meter and stopped....

 

[jacketsdb23]

Sounds like your issue is more in narrowing down your efficiencies, boil volumes, grain absorption rates, etc. Even before i was adjusting my pH, i never had issues with hitting the same efficiency within 1 or 2 points based on my recipes. Have you done boil off tests? It might be smart to build a basic recipe, with your assumed efficiency, boil off, grain absorption, etc numbers, and then see where you're at every step of the way and adjust as needed. Within 2-3 brews you should have expectations pretty locked in if you're using the same process and same equipment

yeah, this is a new single tier system...so i really have to learn a bit about the losses in the new system. However, I do think that in the past 24 hours reading about water chemistry and mashing I've learned why i'm consistently low in pre-boil gravity (even with the old 5 gallon system):

1. I'm going to mix the grains better at the end of mash - I have been lazy with this and just started the Vorlauf after 60 minutes. Have always sparged at 170F though.

2. Our city water is actually pretty bad for IPA water profile. No sulfate, no Calcium. Our water lacks minerals and has very low alkalinity. I think adding the Ca will help with pH and optimization of malt enzyme activity.

 

[dmtaylor]

Lactic acid can be used, but phosphoric is best as it is essentially tasteless in the finished beer.

 

[mabrungard]

Lactic acid addition is fine as long as your starting water doesn't have a bunch of alkalinity. RO and distilled water are definitely OK for use with lactic acid since the amount used will never be tasted.