Petrus Aged Pale Clone??.....
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inflictor-of-grimness
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There was a little bit of discussion here
And a guy here tried to clone it, but it didn't turn out because he attempted to use Petrus dregs, which are not viable for souring.
I would make a simple golden base beer with mostly pilsner malt, hop it to ~20-25 IBU, and probably pitch roeselare. I would mash probably around 154-156 to make sure the Pedio has some food so that you can get the firm sourness that Petrus has.
And a guy here tried to clone it, but it didn't turn out because he attempted to use Petrus dregs, which are not viable for souring.
I would make a simple golden base beer with mostly pilsner malt, hop it to ~20-25 IBU, and probably pitch roeselare. I would mash probably around 154-156 to make sure the Pedio has some food so that you can get the firm sourness that Petrus has.
TNGabe
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100% pils and actually starts around 35 IBU IIRC. Sacc strain isn't terribly important, but Ardennes or something similar would be a good place to start. Pitch pedio or hop tolerant lacto and a mild brett strain or two at the same time. Wait. A long time. I think Petrus Pale is 2 yrs old, but not sure on that either.
Don't think you're going to clone it since you're not going to get the same bugs and critters they use, but that'll get you in the ball park.
Don't think you're going to clone it since you're not going to get the same bugs and critters they use, but that'll get you in the ball park.
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j1n
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Wow 100% pils? Ive read before 90% pils and 10% crystal. Also isnt the IBUs way too high for any lacto.... i thought you gotta keep it in the single digits for lacto to work well.
So basically your saying to pitch a Roeselare....
TNGabe
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100% pils is from Wild Brews (p63/p119). Also on p63 the IBUs are stated at 33. It's not a lacto soured beer, it's pedio. I wouldn't use Roeselaere personally. I don't like the blends, they don't give a good depth of flavor to the beer. I'd do what I suggested above. Sacc, then pedio and mild brett.
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j1n
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I appreciate the info.
i used this recipe
10 lbs Pilsen malt
1 lb crystal 15
1 lb flaked wheat.
1.95 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker (60 min)
mashed @ 154 F 60 min
OG 1.058 ( i was expecting 1.062)
pitched wlp 570 for 7 days then racked to secondary and pitched ECY bug county, and added 1 oz of old used oak cubes that i boiled for 20 min.
after 9 months in the secondary i racked it again and brewed the recipe then put it on the original yeast cake.
the older batch tasted close but was lacking the hops and much sweeter. so my intent is was to let the second batch ferment for 3-6 months then blend them.
i tasted the 2nd batch @ 3 months and still needs time.
i'll give it till the end of may and go from there.
note: from reading i did see that they do use caramel malts but mine is way too dark. and i used the wheat to give the bugs some extra food, which seems to work well as the first batch is not too thin.
if i brew this again i would drop the caramel malt/ use carapils instead and cut the wheat in half.
hope this helps with your recipe.
10 lbs Pilsen malt
1 lb crystal 15
1 lb flaked wheat.
1.95 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker (60 min)
mashed @ 154 F 60 min
OG 1.058 ( i was expecting 1.062)
pitched wlp 570 for 7 days then racked to secondary and pitched ECY bug county, and added 1 oz of old used oak cubes that i boiled for 20 min.
after 9 months in the secondary i racked it again and brewed the recipe then put it on the original yeast cake.
the older batch tasted close but was lacking the hops and much sweeter. so my intent is was to let the second batch ferment for 3-6 months then blend them.
i tasted the 2nd batch @ 3 months and still needs time.
i'll give it till the end of may and go from there.
note: from reading i did see that they do use caramel malts but mine is way too dark. and i used the wheat to give the bugs some extra food, which seems to work well as the first batch is not too thin.
if i brew this again i would drop the caramel malt/ use carapils instead and cut the wheat in half.
hope this helps with your recipe.
again i would say that after reading several cones and info on or about this beer and my own attempt i would not us any caramel malts. my next attempt will be using only pilsen and some wheat. i also tried to culture dregs but got nothing much to grow and what did wasn't sour. i know that pasteurize it.
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j1n
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So like 90/10 pils/wheat?
Ive been trying to buy sours with dregs but its hard to find in my area. most places that do carry them are usually sold out.
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j1n
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Im about 15 - 20 min south of DC. The only places around here is total wine that carries a large variety of craft beer. Most of the sours are always sold out though and the ones still available dont have dregs.
dcHokie
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Wahoo
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If I were to make a Petrus Aged Pale clone, I'd just use Roselare blend. The beer to me has a similar character to the Flanders Red/Brown beers, only without the malt complexity.
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j1n
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Yeah, i read that the Petrus Oud Bruin is a mix of a young brown ale mixed with the aged pale. I was drinking a Petrus Oud Bruin last night and its really good.
mashpaddled
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Any of the recipes above would get you in the ballpark of this beer. The recipes calling for various crystal malts are really only there for color correction so it's really up to you to decide whether you want to add them or go 100% pils.
FWIW the high IBU slaps traditional sour beer lore that more than 10 IBU is fatal to sour beer but that isn't true at all. Increasingly sour brewers commercially and at home are raising IBUs on sour beers to moderate sourness, especially early in the process. This helps produce beers with less aggressive sourness and develop more yeast-derived flavor.
FWIW the high IBU slaps traditional sour beer lore that more than 10 IBU is fatal to sour beer but that isn't true at all. Increasingly sour brewers commercially and at home are raising IBUs on sour beers to moderate sourness, especially early in the process. This helps produce beers with less aggressive sourness and develop more yeast-derived flavor.
Beer666
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Thanks for your reply, . So if i can skip the crystal i am thinking something like 90% pilsner, 10% wheat bittered to 15 IBU with saaz. I have wyeast Roeselare or WLP 655. What do you think would be best and should i do a large pitch to ensure enough microbes. I could ferment first with Thames Valley or lager yeast or i could use some kveik. Also unsure how much oak to add, i suppose i should check my sours to see how they are progressing. Cheers
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Unless you're adding dregs, I would recommend no more than 0.3-0.5oz hops per 5 gal.
I also suggest pitching the sour blend as the sole primary pitch.
Oak depends on the product, and how much oak flavor you want. Starting low like 0.5oz per 5 gal is my suggestion. You can always add more. The oak is very subtle in the Petrus series and most traditional sours.
