Peering down the kegging hole

[PADave]

So far I've been a bottle only home brewer. But everything I read and everyone I talk to says kegging is the best thing since sliced bread. So I've begun to look into it and trying to think about how to set up a system. Right now I have my beer fridge, which I could get 2 kegs in. Here are my questions:

-Ball lock or pin lock? What's the advantages of either.

-I like the idea of the Torpedo kegs from Morebeer. Having everything new and the same.

-Think about starting off with just a picnic tap with one keg. Is this as simple as a keg, CO2 and fittings/lines sitting in the fridge?

-Can kegs be kept at room temp once filled and carbed?

-Should I buy with expansion in mind from the get go, or just get the basic kit and add to it as I go?

With so many options out there, just trying to find a place to start, if I even want to go down this road.

 

[imasickboy]

Pin lock are shorter, but fatter. Usually a hair cheaper. Typically all new kegs are ball lock. So if you were to ever want to add new kegs to your setup, you'll need ball. You can mix and match, but that's typically more trouble than it's worth.

New is spendy. You'll can as much, or more, buying new kegging equipment as you do for the entirety of your other brewing gear.

I recommend searching craigslist for someone selling their tap system. The tank and regulator are all you really want from that to start, and then you can add new hoses, taps, and fittings to suit your setup. Usually you can find someone dumping it off really cheap. And yes, it can be as simple as throwing it all in your existing beer fridge with a picnic tap.

Kegs are great storage vessels. As long as you purge the keg of o2, and keep it sealed under pressure, you can store under room temp with no issues, other than the typical aging, (which is often a good thing.)

Start small, add on as you grow, or after you determine what your ultimate goal actually is.

 

[mongoose33]

So far I've been a bottle only home brewer. But everything I read and everyone I talk to says kegging is the best thing since sliced bread. So I've begun to look into it and trying to think about how to set up a system. Right now I have my beer fridge, which I could get 2 kegs in. Here are my questions:

-Ball lock or pin lock? What's the advantages of either.

I don't know if anyone sells new pinlock kegs. That should tell you something. The Torpedoes are ball-lock.

As IMASICKBOY noted, pinlocks are shorter and wider. Morebeer actually sells two versions of Torpedo kegs, shorter and squattier, taller and skinnier. I have two of the original squattier Torpedoes; they will sit on the compressor hump in my keezer and still clear the lid. Taller traditional corny kegs will not, so there's a place for the shorter ones. The one I just bought is the taller and skinnier version, because that form factor lets me get one more keg into the rest of the keezer.

-I like the idea of the Torpedo kegs from Morebeer. Having everything new and the same.

I have three of them. Just bought a fourth (should show up today). Yes, they're pricier, but no rubber making marks on hands or floor, and the smaller ones are stackable. I also have 5 traditional corny kegs.

-Think about starting off with just a picnic tap with one keg. Is this as simple as a keg, CO2 and fittings/lines sitting in the fridge?

Yes, it is. It's a great way to start, IMO. I did it that way, allowed me to learn before I built my keezer.

-Can kegs be kept at room temp once filled and carbed?

Yes--it's not really any different than a can of beer. Just a big can.

-Should I buy with expansion in mind from the get go, or just get the basic kit and add to it as I go?

Absolutely. Hard to do financially but you'll thank yourself later. I bought a drip tray that's perfect for four faucets; I just bought a fifth faucet, and now the drip tray is not really wide enough. I'll figure something out, but I wish the drip tray was 4" wider.

With so many options out there, just trying to find a place to start, if I even want to go down this road.

Oh, you want to go down this road, believe me. My son, coming home from grad school and being amazed by the keezer: "You mean...I can just get a draft beer any time I like?" Yeah, he can. He also brews, but small batches and bottles only.

No sediment in bottles, you can carb beer in a hurry with force carbing, you can bottle right from the taps. I just bottled 3 different beers for distribution to friends and to provide a source for me to take elsewhere. I used a growler filler that fits my Perlick faucets. It's surprising how easy it is.

 

[PADave]

Oh, you want to go down this road, believe me. My son, coming home from grad school and being amazed by the keezer: "You mean...I can just get a draft beer any time I like?" Yeah, he can. He also brews, but small batches and bottles only.

No sediment in bottles, you can carb beer in a hurry with force carbing, you can bottle right from the taps. I just bottled 3 different beers for distribution to friends and to provide a source for me to take elsewhere. I used a growler filler that fits my Perlick faucets. It's surprising how easy it is.

This is what I am struggling with. Start kegging, and end up putting beer in bottles. Is it worth the added expense, equipment, and space over just bottling initially? I also like having a variety of brews on hand. I walk into my beer cellar and have options of at least half a dozen different brews to drink, usually more. I'd only have one or two kegs to start. Then there is the portability factor. Anytime I want to take some brews or give some to friends it's back to the bottle. I'm just having a hard time justifying kegging in my mind. Is it really that much better?

 

[jmcquesten]

This is what I am struggling with. Start kegging, and end up putting beer in bottles. Is it worth the added expense, equipment, and space over just bottling initially? I also like having a variety of brews on hand. I walk into my beer cellar and have options of at least half a dozen different brews to drink, usually more. I'd only have one or two kegs to start. Then there is the portability factor. Anytime I want to take some brews or give some to friends it's back to the bottle. I'm just having a hard time justifying kegging in my mind. Is it really that much better?

It really is that much better. I bottled for the first few years and thought the same things. I now have 4 taps and hardly ever fill a bottle. When I do, it's either with the beergun for competition or growler filler to just bring somewhere. I think it's worth it just to have control over carbonation levels, but it's also nice only filling one container. I still bottle condition some beers but not often.

 

[mongoose33]

This is what I am struggling with. Start kegging, and end up putting beer in bottles. Is it worth the added expense, equipment, and space over just bottling initially? I also like having a variety of brews on hand. I walk into my beer cellar and have options of at least half a dozen different brews to drink, usually more. I'd only have one or two kegs to start. Then there is the portability factor. Anytime I want to take some brews or give some to friends it's back to the bottle. I'm just having a hard time justifying kegging in my mind. Is it really that much better?

In the end, you have to decide what's most important to you.

Having done both--bottling only, and kegging--no way I'd go back to just bottling. Easily 90 percent of my homebrew is drunk from the keezer, on tap. The bottles are just for portability.

A friend of mine was up near RiteBrew last weekend; he picked up a big order of malt for me. I'm giving him a six-pack of my beers as a thank you.

When I go out to play poker at a friend's house, I bring bottles; I could bring a growler, but bottles let me bring different kinds if I want, and anything I don't drink comes home and stays in reserve.

I do not like sediment; if it doesn't bother you, then it's not a consideration.

I don't like waiting weeks for carbonation; if that's not a concern for you, then not a consideration.

I really like fresh, kegged beer; if that's not a concern.....

One thing you can do is try it. If you don't like it, sell it off, and consider any small losses you take as the price of being entertained by trying the process. I bought 5 used corny kegs for $50 each; I'm sure I could sell them for that. My Perlick 650SS faucets I bought on sale; I'm sure I can get close their sale price, if not that. Same with regulators, same with the CO2 tanks. I'm not out all that much, and it sure has been fun figuring it out and producing great draft beer.

[I once bought a Hi-Point pistol on a lark; I'd read it could be made to run reliably w/ some tweaks, it only cost $169 or so, I thought why not? So I bought it. Did the tweaks. It fed commercial ammo just fine, but my truncated cone reloads? It just couldn't handle them. Had the jam of all jams with it. Decided to unload it to another guy who only will shoot commercial ammo through it. Ended up being, IIRC, about a $25 loss or thereabouts. I considered that $25 more than adequate payment for an enjoyable learning experience. More fun than spending that at the movies.]

There's no one right answer; what matters is what's important to you, and you have the right to decide that for yourself.

 

[PADave]

It really is that much better. I bottled for the first few years and thought the same things. I now have 4 taps and hardly ever fill a bottle. When I do, it's either with the beergun for competition or growler filler to just bring somewhere. I think it's worth it just to have control over carbonation levels, but it's also nice only filling one container. I still bottle condition some beers but not often.

When you bottle condition, do you still fill from a keg?

 

[timdillon36]

I don't want to add to your confusion on what path to go down but....

If you are going to spend the money to buy new, why not go with sankies. They come in all different shapes and sizes. I believe you can find them as small as 1/2g to as big as 1/2bbl.

With a corny your batch size kind of has to match your keg size. You can get a corny in other sizes than 5g but those are spendy.

I think cleaning kegs by hand is a pain so you are going to want a keg washer any way and you can also use it to clean carboys.

If you want to try it on the cheap keep your eyes open for someone selling their used setup. Thats what I did but looking to the future I plan to ferment and serve from a sanke and never have to lift any vessel when full, pump from BK into ferm chamber and then push with co2 to serving keg in keezer.

 

[jmcquesten]

When you bottle condition, do you still fill from a keg?

Sorry. No, if I'm bottle conditioning, it's usually a Belgian style that I want to age and naturally carbonate. I bottle with beergun for competition or to bring a variety of small bottles. If I'm only bringing one type, I'll fill a growler with the growler filler. Sometimes I'll beergun the last gallon or 2 from a keg to get a new one on tap.

 

[PADave]

I don't want to add to your confusion on what path to go down but....

If you are going to spend the money to buy new, why not go with sankies. They come in all different shapes and sizes. I believe you can find them as small as 1/2g to as big as 1/2bbl.

With a corny your batch size kind of has to match your keg size. You can get a corny in other sizes than 5g but those are spendy.

I think cleaning kegs by hand is a pain so you are going to want a keg washer any way and you can also use it to clean carboys.

If you want to try it on the cheap keep your eyes open for someone selling their used setup. Thats what I did but looking to the future I plan to ferment and serve from a sanke and never have to lift any vessel when full, pump from BK into ferm chamber and then push with co2 to serving keg in keezer.

Just watched a video on sanke vs corney kegs and I see no advantage to sanke. The corney looks like a much better choice for home brewing.

I do 5 gallon brews, so size is not an issue. If anything in the future I might go to 10 gallon, so that's just 2 kegs. And from what I understand, there is no reason you can't put less than 5 gal in a corney keg if I were to brew a small batch.

I did find a seller on craigs list of a small fridge, 2 kegs, regulator, and co2 bottle for a decent price. If I hear back from him I might make the leap!

 

[Horseflesh]

Kegging really is that much better. After I kegged for the first time I wanted to throw all my bottles into the forest. Instead, they just went into the attic.

I find that the plastic picnic taps are just a pain in the ass. They are cheap, yeah. But sometimes they leak. You have this stiff hose flopping around inside the fridge, and it dribbles when you are done dispensing. (insert prostate joke here) You have to find a place to hook it. I did it for a year and I hated it.

If you really want the tap inside the cooler I would take a look at these, which look like a picnic tap built a little better. Never used one, just happened to see them in the catalog the other day.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/ABS-DRAFT-BEER-GUN-P4156.aspx
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/STAINLESS-DRAFT-BEER-GUN-P4155.aspx

I have Perlick 630ss taps and they are just fine, though if I was starting over I would look closely at Intertap. There seem to be a lot of happy users and you can screw on goodies like a stout faucet. I think they also have flow control.

Torpedo kegs are good. I have a few. They feel kind of cheap compared to the used soda Corny kegs, but they do work fine.

For your gas system I recommend the Taprite regs with the o-ring built in. I also recommend getting a dual-output reg so you can have 2 different pressures on hand. (eg, ale and hefeweizen, or ale and soda water)

And lastly I recommend Taprite manifolds too. Take a look, manifolds with these kind of valves are good:

http://www.taprite.com/tools-and-accessories-manifolds

Now look at this one. See the red-handled valves? You don't want those. They are not made as well. I've had leaks with this style.

https://www.kegworks.com/2-to-9-way-aluminum-co2-distribution-manifolds-for-draft-beer-systems

Get a manifold bigger than you think you need. I have space for 4 kegs in my fridge and I have a 5x manifold plus the dual pressure reg. This is very convenient because I can have 1 high pressure keg, the rest low pressure, and have a long gas hose that I can snake out of the fridge to pressurize a keg or whatever.

Enjoy the keg life.

 

[derekcw83]

Ive been bottling for 2 years and I am considering kegging for the advantages of fresh beer anytime, no more bottling, cleaning etc.

The problem is I enjoy having 3 or more brews available at any given time to drink. So I would need a minimum of a 3 tap system. I'm willing to invest, but I want to do it right and all at one time, not start with one and upgrade from there. I just need to know what kind of cost I am looking at for a system like this? I only have bottling supplies so starting from scratch to having 3 taps dispensing beer, what's it going to cost me if I purchase everything new?

Thanks for the input!

 

[PADave]

The kegs I saw on CL are gone. I'll still keep an eye out, I'm in no rush.

 

[TallDan]

Just watched a video on sanke vs corney kegs and I see no advantage to sanke. The corney looks like a much better choice for home brewing.

Do some searches on keg leaks. You'll find tons of threads here about people chasing down leaks, replacing seals, poppets, etc. with cornies.

There is good reason why commercial beverages have fully abandoned corny kegs and are standardized on sanke kegs.

I have cornies, but if I were to do it all over again, it would be sanke. Every few months I consider making the change. New sixtels in many cases cost less than high quality cornies.

 

[Horseflesh]

@derekcw83 -- here's some food for thought.

Taprite dual-pressure reg $94
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060NOX40/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Taprite 4x manifold $48 (currently on sale normally $63)
https://www.kegerator.com/taprite-aluminum-four-way-beer-air-line-distributor/1744.html

Perlick 630ss faucet with shank and handle $57 each (also check out Intertap)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D6MSELA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

4x ball lock disconnect pairs $33 (you can get fancier ones)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002VLCHUM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

3/16" ID liquid tubing for taps $12 (yes it is thin wall, works fine on the 1/4" liquid barbs, just soften it in hot water)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E6BCXQ8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Keg lube $6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007QU2UAA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Torpedo kegs are $75-$90 depending on size. You may be able to find used Corny kegs even cheaper in your area. Both are fine.

You'll also need some 1/4" ID tubing to go from the reg to the manifold, and from the manifold to the grey gas posts. No link handy.

You will need a crapload of hose clamps in the smallest size. No link, sorry, I actually can't find the right size on Amazon so I have a bunch of too-big ones in use.

Depending on where your taps are you may need a drip tray, this 12" one is $38
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B8IAOU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

5 lb CO2 cylinder is approx $100 from a welding gas company. If you buy a shiny new CO2 cylinder you may find that when you take it to be filled, they SWAP instead of filling. Then you are sad, because they have your shiny cylinder, and you have something that looks like it went through a war. Look in to this before you buy anything. PROTIP: learn not to care what your cylinder looks like.

If you need to drill a 7/8" hole through your metal fridge door like I did, you will need a really nice drill bit that costs about $40. Don't use a spade bit like I did the first time, you'll just ruin it!

You will need a way to secure the CO2 cylinder inside the cooler, OR shanks and hose to run CO2 in from the outside, through the cooler wall.

That all adds up to this ugly thing. (though, I got a 5-way manifold and can support 3x 5 gallon kegs and 1x 1.5 gallon keg on the back shelf.)

http://imgur.com/a/MaEyk

Good luck!

 

[jmcquesten]

Or you can go this route.

View attachment 1482012103223.jpg

View attachment 1482012133918.jpg

 

[Horseflesh]

Having the gas and manifold outside is definitely nice. The only reason I didn't do it that way was I was too lazy to figure out if I'd puncture the cooling system. I love that multi-reg manifold too. That's a great way to go if you don't mind the extra cost.

Oops, forgot to post the pic of my taps. Hmm, looks like I need to clean today...

http://imgur.com/a/AkXO7

 

[mongoose33]

Ive been bottling for 2 years and I am considering kegging for the advantages of fresh beer anytime, no more bottling, cleaning etc.

The problem is I enjoy having 3 or more brews available at any given time to drink. So I would need a minimum of a 3 tap system. I'm willing to invest, but I want to do it right and all at one time, not start with one and upgrade from there. I just need to know what kind of cost I am looking at for a system like this? I only have bottling supplies so starting from scratch to having 3 taps dispensing beer, what's it going to cost me if I purchase everything new?

Thanks for the input!

The previous info is great.

I started my keezer with three taps. I added a 4th after a while, and I just bought a 5th faucet for it.

If you build a keezer or other refrigeration system for draft beer, you can build it for expansion as need or funding allows. One decision you need to make at the start is whether you want to have a distribution manifold to accommodate future expansion.

Mine has four lines; adding my 5th faucet means I"ll have to have one of those four lines split with a wye and feed CO2 to two kegs from it. Not a big deal.

Below are pics of my keezer w/ 3 taps; then with 4 taps. When I measured for where the taps go, I used an awl to mark a spot where each of 5 faucets would go. Looking at the last pic, I'll bet you can guess where that last faucet will go.

 

[Transamguy77]

I had bottled for a few years before my wife bought me a kegging setup, and I was bottling 10 gallon batches at that point, I have talked about bottling but I haven't since. I can keg 10 gallons in less than an hour with clean up and all.

I have a 3 tap fridge and I made a gas manifold out of PVC and PVC shut offs, less than $20.

I have had a few big Stout's in a keg for almost a year and they were fine, to be honest I'll tie up a keg that long over bottling a batch.

As to the OP on which type, ball and pin both do the same thing and depending on your set up that will dictate what will work with your set up. In my case I didn't want to use pin locks because they are too fat and can only fit 2 pin locks vs 3 ball locks, so in keeping with variety I chose ball lock.

Pins are usually cheaper and you can convert them to ball lock, I have one of those because when my wife bought me my first keg it was listed as a ball lock but was really a converted pin lock, doesn't get much use.

I also believe kegging is a personal preference some people like bottling beer, after kegging I don't. And cleaning I built a keg washer/wort chiller pump and I'll just wait till I have 5 or 6 that need cleaning and do them all at once.

 

[E_Rock]

Kegging all the way! I can't ever see going back to bottling. Imagine this scenario. Your beer has finished fermenting. You decide you want to rack. Open keg, insert siphon hose, siphon beer. Close keg. Stick in keezer. Pop on two quick disconnects. Done. Use the additional time to reflect on all those damn bottles you used to wash and store. Congratulate yourself for saving the time and drink a homebrew.

Certainly, there's quite a few steps to get initially set up, but once it's done, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I have room for 4 kegs, wish I had room for more.

I had my eye on those torpedo kegs but I've never actually ordered one. Reviews seemed to be mixed. When I started I got 2 used kegs. Since then I've picked up 4 brand new ones for $60/ea. If you can be patient and watch for deals, I've gotten these from Austin homebrew, and Adventures in HomeBrewing. I'm quite happy with the quality.

 

[Homercidal]

Kegs are great, but honestly, I wouldn't go to kegging just to save a 1/2 hour of time over bottling. Do it if you want to walk up to a tap and pour as much fresh beer as you want. Do it for when you REALLY want to carbonate a beer in a day or two. Do it for when you want to submit bottled beers to someone and know they are going to be sediment free. Dry Hop in a keg is easiest when you keg.

I won't try and fool you. There is some work involved. When you factor the necessity of cleaning the keg, maybe every time or two you fill one (depends on how fast you kick it and refill) and having to clean beer lines, and cost of CO2, it's not exactly free, but I think it's well worth it if the stuff I listed above is appealing.

 

[derekcw83]

I made the leap today. This thread helped convince me. I've gotten more and more irritated with setting up bottles, cleaning them, and filling them one by one being so careful with each one to avoid oxidation. Many of the perks listed in this thread made me realize it's a wise investment for me. So I bought a used freezer today, and got everything I need from my lhbs this afternoon, kegs ordered and on the way. I should have a 4 faucet keezer in a few weeks. Merry freakin Christmas.

 

[E_Rock]

I made the leap today. This thread helped convince me. I've gotten more and more irritated with setting up bottles, cleaning them, and filling them one by one being so careful with each one to avoid oxidation. Many of the perks listed in this thread made me realize it's a wise investment for me. So I bought a used freezer today, and got everything I need from my lhbs this afternoon, kegs ordered and on the way. I should have a 4 faucet keezer in a few weeks. Merry freakin Christmas.

Merry Christmas indeed!

 

[Horseflesh]

I'll drink to that.

Get one of these as well so you can make a bottle of soda water as needed:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V334SME/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Eventually you will want to get some gear to clean with, too. Beer line cleaner, a pump, a couple of those carbonation caps w/ hose barbs, a bucket, and some hoses will let you hook up a recirculating BLC wash. I find that I can jam this hose onto my faucets for a liquid return to the bucket. Search the forum and you will find a lot of ideas.

 

[PADave]

Kegs are great, but honestly, I wouldn't go to kegging just to save a 1/2 hour of time over bottling. Do it if you want to walk up to a tap and pour as much fresh beer as you want. Do it for when you REALLY want to carbonate a beer in a day or two. Do it for when you want to submit bottled beers to someone and know they are going to be sediment free. Dry Hop in a keg is easiest when you keg.

I won't try and fool you. There is some work involved. When you factor the necessity of cleaning the keg, maybe every time or two you fill one (depends on how fast you kick it and refill) and having to clean beer lines, and cost of CO2, it's not exactly free, but I think it's well worth it if the stuff I listed above is appealing.

I'm glad to at least hear something like this, instead of kegging is the best thing ever, end of story. I still really cant justify going there yet. I have no problem with as much beer as I want from bottles. I can wait for carbonation, the pipeline stays pretty full. Most of my beer is for personal consumption, or is drank at my house, so I do the pouring and I've learned how to do a clean pour. Lastly, I have no problems when I dry hop.

For now I think I'll spend my money on the brewing side of things, and maybe revisit kegs someday down the road.

 

[BeardedBrews]

For now I think I'll spend my money on the brewing side of things, and maybe revisit kegs someday down the road.

You're on the right track here in my opinion, get one thing right at a time. Kegging dramatically improved my enjoyment of the brewing hobby, but it wasn't the first thing I spent extra money on. It comes with headaches, cleaning hassles, and presentation embarrassment just like bottles can.

In the end bottles are lower cost and easier to store, which means they are the best solution for someone who brews infrequently (many homebrewers), or someone who wants to brew very frequently (Jamil Z). Where kegs excel is in the simplicity of packaging, the consistency of carbonation, and the commercial presentation of the finished product. Watching someone else pull a perfect pint from the tap in your house is so awesome it will make you forget the weeks you spent figuring out where your regulator was leaking, the gallons of foam wasted balancing your lines, and the $40-50 extra bucks you spent buying a keg vs bottles.

 

[mongoose33]

You're on the right track here in my opinion, get one thing right at a time. Kegging dramatically improved my enjoyment of the brewing hobby, but it wasn't the first thing I spent extra money on. It comes with headaches, cleaning hassles, and presentation embarrassment just like bottles can.

In the end bottles are lower cost and easier to store, which means they are the best solution for someone who brews infrequently (many homebrewers), or someone who wants to brew very frequently (Jamil Z). Where kegs excel is in the simplicity of packaging, the consistency of carbonation, and the commercial presentation of the finished product. Watching someone else pull a perfect pint from the tap in your house is so awesome it will make you forget the weeks you spent figuring out where your regulator was leaking, the gallons of foam wasted balancing your lines, and the $40-50 extra bucks you spent buying a keg vs bottles.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything here--everybody makes their own choices based on resources, values, needs and desires--but I'm currently reading "Brew Like A Pro" by Dave Miller. In the book, Miller argues that the first purchase by a new brewer should be a draft system. Even before buying fermentation equipment!

His view is a little out of the mainstream, but he believes draft beer is the only way to do it.

I'm just throwing that out for consideration.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I'm currently reading "Brew Like A Pro" by Dave Miller. In the book, Miller argues that the first purchase by a new brewer should be a draft system. Even before buying fermentation equipment![...]

Truly surprising. Though I did get there in relatively short order, I suppose, in my progression I can count a few things that were more important than kegging wrt producing an enjoyable and reasonably stable product...

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Truly surprising. Though I did get there in relatively short order, I suppose, in my progression I can count a few things that were more important than kegging wrt producing an enjoyable and reasonably stable product...

Cheers!

It is surprising to me as well. I've drunk many a very satisfying beer from bottles, but his view is that the best beer is draft beer and you might as well get your draft system in place before brewing. It certainly isn't a book for newbies as I suspect almost all of them would be turned away by the initial commitment to....not actually brewing.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I'd have quit the hobby years ago if I continued to bottle.