Pear vs apple cider

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dyrne

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I've never had much in the way of pear cider... this may be kind of an off the wall question but I've been thinking of adding some pear trees at the family farm. Is the opinion that pear cider can be just as complex and interesting as apple cider? I don't have a ton of extra room in our orchard and haven't really gotten into cider of any kind yet but with how incredibly long a commitment it would be I don't want make a mistake when I could have planted extra apple varieties.
 
My experience has not been different from @Blacksmith1

Pear tends to be more delicate and subtle. You might want to plant more than one variety to get more complex flavors (also good for disease resistance, weather issues, etc)
 
TechFanMD said:
My experience has not been different from @Blacksmith1

Pear tends to be more delicate and subtle. You might want to plant more than one variety to get more complex flavors (also good for disease resistance, weather issues, etc)
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Most pear varieties also require a pollinator, so another benefit of multiple varieties.
My great-grandfather had grafted pears onto his apple trees, granted the grafts didn't last many decades like the parent tree.
 
I agree with the above comments. I have made some but it wasn't particularly exciting. The "commercial" versions are also rather plain.

Now for the good news. I find that adding about 10% pears to the apples, results in a touch of sweetness that dilutes the tart taste that you often get when apple cider ferments down to 1.000. It is a bit like cider at around 1.003.

I first added the pears in a small trial batch when I read that they are quite high in sorbitol (a natural sweetener that doesn't ferment), because I wasn't keen on going down the xylitol etc path even though I have tried xylitol it and it does work.

Apples have around 0.5g of sorbitol per 100g, whereas pears are typically 2-3g/100g. This is probably why pears have a bit of a reputation for having a laxative effect, although I haven't found that to be the case.

My pears are Williams and Beurre Bosc. The Williams are a bit soft but the Beurre Bosc firmness is more like apples so they are O.K. for scratting with the apples.

I was planning to stovetop pasteurise to retain some sweetness in bottle carbonated batches, but since trying the pears I haven't bothered.
 
Goblism said:
Most pear varieties also require a pollinator, so another benefit of multiple varieties.
My great-grandfather had grafted pears onto his apple trees, granted the grafts didn't last many decades like the parent tree.
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We have a single pear tree, and I am not aware of another around - but end up with tons of pears. I think it shows how far pollinators travel....quite amazing actually.
 
All the perry I've had was rather mild in flavor, compared to cider; some to the point of being bland. Perry was reputed to be Henry the VIII's fav beverage. I prefer cider, but it's about what YOU like. I'd say try a few different brands/styles of perry & see what you like; then try to find out what varieties those perry makers use.
Here are a couple links that might help:
http://www.ciderandperry.co.uk/

https://www.gardenfocused.co.uk/fruitarticles/pears/variety-perry.php

http://www.cumminsnursery.com/perry.htm
 
Some Pear varieties don't need a pollinator, but some do need them. Just like apples, you have to pick the right variety to pollinate with.
I've made Perry with pears from local orchards, "wild pears" I've gathered from abandoned farms and from my single tree. The results haven't been all that great and I've cut back on Perry making the last few seasons. Local Bartlet pears make an OK cider, I bottle conditioned and lightly carbonated it.
I usually ferment the pear juice by itself and then blend with hard apple cider after fermentation.
I have a single Kiefer pear tree which is an old variety, doesn't need any sprays and produces a reliable crop every year. The pears have a gritty texture and are more suitable for cooking and cider than for eating raw. It makes an OK single variety Perry.
I've planted some perry-specific varieties but it will be many years before I see a single pear.
Varieties suitable for making perry are hard to get, and some are susceptible to diseases and need spraying.
My 2 cents: If you have limited space, plant a variety you can enjoy eating, cooking and pressing the for juice. Perhaps an Asian pear variety.
If you have any local orchards, call around and see if they have any pears. A pear tree produces a large amount of small fruit that they'll sell as "seconds". Don't buy over-ripe fruit, it's impossible to press.
 
I appreciate all the responses it was very helpful... I think I will limit the number of pears I plant.
 
Many pomological societies organize grafting courses. Members often bring loads of material and are happy to share their knowledge and skills.
 
I made 3 gallons of perry two years ago. One went really funky (still drinkable), the other two were bland in the extreme. I would not waste my time on a pure perry. Now mixing with some very tart apples might be interesting. That is what I plan to try why my crab apple tree reaches production.
 
Perry is relatively bland compared to apple cider. And pear trees can take a whole generation 20+ years to produce much fruit. If you want to try it, get trees on dwarf rootstock which keeps the trees shorter than 12 feet and producing fruit within 3-4 years.
 
My pear tree is self-fertile, and about 22 years old. It has been producing for probably 18 of those years. It makes huge crops ever other year. But so far I just haven't found a lot of use for them. We eat some, and give lots away, but still we compose far more that drop to the ground.

If I had it to do over, I would plant an Asian pear. Don't know what kind of perry they would make, but they are much better for fresh eating.
 
If you'd only ever had cider made from Golden Delicious or some equally bland dessert apple, then you'd probably conclude that cider wasn't terribly interesting - but make cider from a characterful dessert apple like Discovery or from proper cider apples, and it would seem a lot better.

I suspect that's what we're seeing here. I'm no expert on cider or perry, but I do enjoy (proper, British commercial) perry when I have it - in fact I tend to have it in preference to cider if I have the choice. But obviously it's a big bet if you're planting trees without having had any good examples.

+1 to the idea of blending, for cider/perry or juice, but there's no need if you have proper perry varieties.

Here's a list of pears from a British cider/perry producer which may give some pointers : http://www.welshmountaincider.com/index.php/apple-pear-tree-nursery/perry-pears

FWIW the three perry varieties in stock at the shop at our National Fruit Collection are Blakeney Red, Hendre Huffcap and Judge Amphlett (although they can graft anything from the 550 pears in their collection if you give them time) so that might give you an idea of varieties to start with as a beginner - they all seem to be listed as heavy-cropping and lowish tannin.

Grafting multiple varieties of fruit tree onto one rootstock is a great idea for smaller spaces, particularly for things like plums which otherwise give you a week of more than you know what to do with.

I don't know if you can get her over there, but I'll put in a shout for Beth as a dessert pear. She's small and not a keeper, but is delicious and ripens 4-6 weeks ahead of the main crop - particularly handy for climates like the UK where we're a bit marginal for classic pears like Williams.
 
GeneDaniels1963 said:
My pear tree is self-fertile, It makes huge crops ever other year. But so far I just haven't found a lot of use for them.
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I make cider with the most suitable apples I can get locally, but using dessert apples usually makes a cider more acidic than I like. So I've been trying to use 1/3 pears in my cider to reduce the acidity. The pear juice will also leave some residual sweetness after fermentation. If you can get really good cider apples, that would be better, but I can't find any of those for sale around here. I also ferment the pear juice on its own and blend it into ciders later on.
If you know anyone with a still, the fermented Pear "cider" can be distilled into Pear brandy.
Another product that has been popular at my house is Pear Honey, which is simply boiled down pears; basically make a pear "applesauce" but keep cooking it down until its thick. I've thought of using this boiled concentrate as a beer flavoring or in some mead, but I haven't tried it yet. It usually gets eaten up on toast .
 
My experience with Perry is the same. My son said he judged an amateur competition and the Perry was the best he ever had. But it was made from an obscure pear only found in the UK. That said I wonder if pear juiced mixed with crabapples would be more interesting.
 
madscientist451 said:
I make cider with the most suitable apples I can get locally, but using dessert apples usually makes a cider more acidic than I like. ...
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That is actually the perfect application for 71B-1122 yeast. It'll reduce malic acid by metabolizing it into alcohol and CO2. I will use it if the T.A. of my juice is north of 0.6%.
 
There is a pear tree adjoining my property and I've considered pressing them but I have no idea what variety they are. The tree is also ~really~ tall and skinny, and the fruit is way up there. This is one that fell - anybody recognize the variety?

43580551144_00c8594735_c.jpg
 
Maylar said:
There is a pear tree adjoining my property and I've considered pressing them but I have no idea what variety they are. The tree is also ~really~ tall and skinny, and the fruit is way up there. This is one that fell - anybody recognize the variety?
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Did it taste like a dessert pear? Seckel and Forelle can be that small. Did they change color as they ripen? And, maybe this should have been my first question: Does it seem like something that was planted, recently or long ago, or are we talking a wild seedling? Because I've made my best perry out of the latter - found some great tannic pears, and I don't know/care what variety they have been. Sometimes the tannins have been quite bitter but extending maceration of the pomace has helped; pear juice tannin level will reduce during this unlike apple tannins.
Since pears live so long I've had good luck on the edges of what were old farmsteads, state forest lands, etc. Lots of hiking, climbing, and talking to friends and locals. Only sometimes has it been worth it, but you seem to be in the right area to make these discoveries. I've made some things with them that are pretty close to what I consider Traditional Perry, in BJCP terms.
 
mwilcox said:
Did it taste like a dessert pear? Seckel and Forelle can be that small. Did they change color as they ripen? And, maybe this should have been my first question: Does it seem like something that was planted, recently or long ago, or are we talking a wild seedling? Because I've made my best perry out of the latter - found some great tannic pears, and I don't know/care what variety they have been. Sometimes the tannins have been quite bitter but extending maceration of the pomace has helped; pear juice tannin level will reduce during this unlike apple tannins.
Since pears live so long I've had good luck on the edges of what were old farmsteads, state forest lands, etc. Lots of hiking, climbing, and talking to friends and locals. Only sometimes has it been worth it, but you seem to be in the right area to make these discoveries. I've made some things with them that are pretty close to what I consider Traditional Perry, in BJCP terms.
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I didn't get to taste it. When it fell it was very hard, and I waited for it to ripen but it just kinda shriveled up. Didn't change color. The tree is on the tree line between my yard and the neighbor's, so I suspect it was planted not wild. And given the height of it I'd say it's been there a long time.
 
From a European perspective, it looks like a small Doyenne du Comice or something like that (they can grow to very large size), but I don't know what got taken across the pond, there are hundreds of old varieties.
 
Maylar said:
There is a pear tree adjoining my property and I've considered pressing them but I have no idea what variety they are. The tree is also ~really~ tall and skinny, and the fruit is way up there. This is one that fell - anybody recognize the variety?

43580551144_00c8594735_c.jpg
Click to expand...
pears need cold to ripen. Had you put it in the refrigerator for a few days it would have softened up. There is a good chance it is Kieffer. Kieffer is very disease resistant so and was widely planned years ago. So a lot of old abandoned trees that have survived are Kieffer. They are not a good eating pear as they are quite grainy but are OK canned or processed. Not sure how they would be in Perry
 
I have a Kieffer pear and it doesn't look like that. If you take a close up photo you can copy and paste it into google search and it will find similar images.
I found several old large pear trees on abandoned farms in my area and I can't match up those pears with any photos on google so there are many old varieties that have been forgotten about.
 
Perry is gentle and earthy compared to apple cider. I find it rarely if ever tastes of pear - more wine like and earthier. It's subtle and gentle. I like mixing some pear into my apple as it brings some natural sweetness (sorbitol in pears doesn't ferment out). Just has a lovely perry we made - I'll see if I can post a photo....
 
I have made pear wine using Bartletts. They are not the best pear to use, but I could get them for a good price. I do not have a pear tree (yet). Pears have a delicate flavor, so I have had to work to find ways to preserve some pear flavor in the wine. I have also tried some Apple Pear cider, with a 50/50 mix of apple and pear juice. That came out pretty well, and I could taste both the apples and the pears. It needs a little bit of back sweetening to bring out the fruit flavors. It is helpful to use a yeast that preserves the fruit flavors.

Most of the grocery store "pear cider" that I have seen is actually hard cider sweetened with pear juice.
 
I’ve made a perry from random Neighbor trees and they were a bit bland. However I did a few 3gallon batches where I freeze concentrated about 1/3 of the batch then added to the main and then fermented. The og was around 1.070. So it was almost a wine but it was tasty.
 
We've mostly grown Asian pears just for eating, and never had a problem with fireblight until one really bad year about three or four years ago when ALL the pear trees in town got it. I lost my absolute favorite Asian pear tree but the others recovered just fine. But I've planted a couple perry pear trees in my new orchard--Butt and Hendre's Huffcap. In about five years, we'll see how they work for making perry. They're not supposed to be edible out of hand at all.
 
It might be a bit more than 5 years, perry trees are a bit shy of flowering when young. The old saying is "plant perry pears for your heirs".
 
gregbathurst said:
It might be a bit more than 5 years, perry trees are a bit shy of flowering when young. The old saying is "plant perry pears for your heirs".
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Alas.....but fair enough. I'm patient, and have plenty of other fruit trees about.
 
cottonwoodks said:
We've mostly grown Asian pears just for eating, and never had a problem with fireblight until one really bad year about three or four years ago when ALL the pear trees in town got it. I lost my absolute favorite Asian pear tree but the others recovered just fine. But I've planted a couple perry pear trees in my new orchard--Butt and Hendre's Huffcap. In about five years, we'll see how they work for making perry. They're not supposed to be edible out of hand at all.
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feel for you. Moved to a new place this year so starting all over on the orchard. Last one was 14 years old so just started to produce well and then said goodbye.
 
MarkKF said:
My experience with Perry is the same. My son said he judged an amateur competition and the Perry was the best he ever had. But it was made from an obscure pear only found in the UK. That said I wonder if pear juiced mixed with crabapples would be more interesting.
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$5 says it was an actual perry pear.

Like (apple) cider, perry/poire/pear cider is much improved by fruit actually intended for fermentation. You know, like wine, that elusive moonshine specific corn, etc. Stuff that eats well doesn't necessarily ferment well.

It does remind me more of a white wine though. Whereas cider seems closer to an ale to me, generally.

It's not always popular to point out, but fruit variety really does matter. Okay, if you're back sweetening it to 1.015 with concentrate and drinking your batch in two weeks, it doesn't. But if you're wanting anything but that or an acid bomb, it does. I'm not sure why people get sensitive/disregard that about fruit, but acknowledge that grain bills and hop choice matter a lot in beer.
 
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rlmiller10 said:
feel for you. Moved to a new place this year so starting all over on the orchard. Last one was 14 years old so just started to produce well and then said goodbye.
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Wow--that would be a real bummer. Fortunately for us, we're keeping our in-town fruit trees, which were selected to be disease-resistant and good keepers.
 
I got 5 gallons of pear juice from an Amish grower/juicer maker. I'm fermenting with Nottingham yeast. I will report back in a couple of months.
 
Much like cider apples vs table apples for hard cider or red eating grapes vs say cab sauv or Pinot noir...eating pears offer very little vs Perry pears.

perry is very delicate but can bevery flavourful if you are skilled and have the right fruit (either or) and allow the Perry to develop over time (say a year).

I medalled at Glintcap this year for Perry and I used tannic pears. Amazing floral notes. Delicate overall but a lot of flavour and subtly changes through a long finish.

Pears in a blend offer a natural Sweetness which lend its self to off dry cider.

Another note on pears is that dessert pears are often high in pH and that leads to watery and insipid tasting drink. Be sure to adjust your pH to no less than 3.6 per ferment if you are used to more acidic forward cider. At 3.6 my ciders normally end at about 3.8 which isn’t ideal so I shoot for about 3.45 resulting in about 3.65 final. This allows the acid to give tre cider or Perry structure and not be flabby. Not saying you have to, we all do things differently, just a suggestion that works for me. Warmer climates have higher pH too so we all have are hurdles. Some fermentors have too much acid, some too little.
 
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