Papazian is changing my mind about extract brewing

[Dwain]

I brewed for many years doing extract and partial grain and I agree with some of the other posters, I made some really fine beers/ale. Those brews are why I'm still in the hobby today. Pre-internet days, a little catalog shopping could save you a lot of money on extracts. - Dwain

 

[david_42]

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

Cruel, but funny.

I do extract, PM and AG. Depends on my mood, time, and the recipe. Since I haven't (and won't) buy a mill and I have a major rodent problem, having sacks of grain around isn't an option. The critters chew though plastic bins. Even had mice get into the conditioning cabinet!

 

[motobrewer]

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

-- people who want to brew far more than 5 gallons at a time

-- people who believe their palates are more discriminating that a jeweler's eye and will not settle for being on the slightest side of imperfect

completely untrue, married, two kids, my palate sucks.

but I am personally getting sick of the 5 hour brewday. the price of extract is the only thing keeping me from doing a few extract beers a year.

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

Someone mentioned they found it hard to get fresh malt extract and I suppose if you live somewhere rural that could be true. My LHBS gets fresh extract bottled weekly and kits are always freshly put-together. Just thought that was worth mentioning.

Depending on where you shop and what style/how many ingredients are included, extract kits can be as cheap as $18 (Novice Gold Ale at my LHBS with 10% in store discount), as expensive as $60 (some kits I have seen online).

Scottland, thanks for your post, I found it very helpful. I would love to see a pic of your setup. When I picture all-grain I GENERALLY think of 3-bucket setups, pumps to transfer liquid, and pots with built in fittings costing lots of money.

 

[Homercidal]

Nothing wrong with extract if you just want to brew beer real quick. I enjoy the science and art of doing as much as I can. I would love to grow and malt my own grain in addition to growing my hops, but for me that is just the step over the line that I won't cross.

I got into AG just as I was starting to really get a handle on extract brewing. Extract can make some very good beers, but there are a few things to understand if you want to take it to the next level.

AG takes a bit of understanding too, but it's not really "harder" than extract, just more time consuming. I was surprised at how easy my first G brew was.

 

[BendBrewer]

A good analogy is spaghetti sauce. You can make a fantastic sauce by spicing up a jar of Ragu and anyone would be hard pressed to tell the difference in that and one made from scratch.

But if making spaghetti sauce was my hobby I would start with fresh tomatoes just about every time. I wouldn't turn my nose up to anyone's Ragu based sauce but if I am going to claim to MAKE SPAGHETTI SAUCE, I am going to do more than spice up someone elses base.

 

[Righlander]

ok when i started this thread i didnt think it was going to turn in to argument lol. i was simply saying that, although i do plan to move to AG some day. after reading up a bit, i'm going to wait a bit longer before i drop all the cash on an AG kit. it wasnt supposed to be about one being better than another.

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

Maybe Coopers or Muntons EXTRACT-ONLY cans are like warming up a can of Ragu, but EXTRACT/GRAIN/HOPS 1 hour boil is not at all like that imho.

 

[knotquiteawake]

I've been an extract brewer for 7 years and have no plans of changing. I was tempted to try all-grain, but:

-- takes an entire day just to brew one batch

-- costs an arm and a leg for the needed equipment

-- need a special space; cannot do it in the kitchen

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

-- people who want to brew far more than 5 gallons at a time

-- people who believe their palates are more discriminating that a jeweler's eye and will not settle for being on the slightest side of imperfect

You guys took this post seriously? I thought it was funny. It all sounded satirical.

 

[Lodovico]

I've been an extract brewer for 7 years and have no plans of changing. I was tempted to try all-grain, but:

-- takes an entire day just to brew one batch

-- costs an arm and a leg for the needed equipment

-- need a special space; cannot do it in the kitchen

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

-- people who want to brew far more than 5 gallons at a time

-- people who believe their palates are more discriminating that a jeweler's eye and will not settle for being on the slightest side of imperfect

I will politely pile on here. Man, all of these statements are false. You should do some research before you post something like this. It's too bad you have these impressions because all grain can be a lot of fun.

You can certainly make good extract beer, I'm not arguing that. But I brew good all grain beer, I'm married with two kids and it doesn't cost a lot or take up my whole day. You should really re-look at this.

Also, Papazian is great but that book is getting pretty outdated. All grain brewing and the resources available to improve at it have expanded a lot since that was written.

 

[BendBrewer]

Maybe Coopers or Muntons EXTRACT-ONLY cans are like warming up a can of Ragu, but EXTRACT/GRAIN/HOPS 1 hour boil is not at all like that imho.

True but Extract/Grain/Hops and boil is just like opening a can of Ragu, adding onions, peppers and mushrooms. Finishing it off with herbs and letting it simmer all day.

At the end of the day, you have some great sauce but I for one wouldn't claim to have MADE spaghetti sauce.

 

[rayg]

You can certainly make good extract beer, I'm not arguing that. But I brew good all grain beer, I'm married with two kids and it doesn't cost a lot or take up my whole day. You should really re-look at this.

It doesn't have to take all day, but it certainly takes more time,
effort and equipment than extract brewing. All-grain enthusiasts
are like all do-it-yourselfers. They just don't understand that not
everyone wants to build their own automobile, no matter how much
fun it *can* be.

Ray

 

[HeavyHandedBrewing]

I have been extract brewing for 7 years now. I have been an apartment dweller the whole time as well and moved 4 times. Less equipment is easier (and cheaper) for me. My palate has come a long way since I started brewing extract with specialty grains, and I believe it will grow more once I move to AG. I love brewing beer, and I brew the beer I can, when I can, with what I can. At 27, with a young family, spending a few hundred dollars to move to all grain is not in the picture. Additionally, the time needed, especially until I get the technique down, is not something I will be able to spare currently for AG. I do not know any local home brewers, but I get good markets from a few friends I have turned into 'beer snobs'. The most important thing with home brewing in my simple opinion is that you love the beer you make, and I love the beer I make. I get to brew the beer I want to drink, when I want to drink it, for far less than it cost in the store (if it was not for home brewing, I would be drinking only cheap, generic beer, which cost more than the beer I make anyway.) Some people may disagree, but home brewing is home brewing, and as long as you make beers you love, you have embraced the hobby correctly. You can brew plenty of unique beers with extract (my favorite, which I have never seen in a store is a Chamomile Ale based off the recipe in 'Extreme Brewing' by Sam, owner of DFH) Some others I have made are a 10% ABV honeywiezen, ginger mead, and smoked porter along with some of the more commonly seen, hefewiezen, American wheat, dunklewizen, blond ale, IPA, ect. If you get creative, you can brew almost any beer you want with extract and a little specialty grain. One day I will move to AG and maybe I will feel different, but for now, I will brew extract and love every minute of it!

 

[mdstrobe]

Look at the easy PM or AG stickies. They make it look easy, WHICH IT IS!

Stovetop AG/PM ftw!

 

[Homercidal]

At 27, with a young family, spending a few hundred dollars to move to all grain is not in the picture.

I feel you, but honestly, it doesn't take a few hundred dollars to get into AG. Buy a cheap(but efficient) cooler on sale. Add a filter of some sort (copper, plastic, or braided hose) for a manifold, and a few dollars worth of spigot. MLT done.

The worst part is having to go to full boils, which *could* be done split fashion on the stovetop, but a turkey fryer or electric assisted kettle can do it in one pot pretty cheap and easy. And I would recommend doing full boils if possible for extract as well.

A crusher is not needed as you can buy pre-crushed grain. And actually the MLT is not needed if you wanted to do brew in a bag style. A wort chiller is handy, but not absolutely necessary according to some people. They like to brew "no-chill" where the hot wort is placed in an airtight plastic container to keep the bacteria out and allowed to cool on it's own. I've used a CFC in the kitchen before and had great results. They don't take much room, nor much money to build, and an IC is even cheaper!

All in all, I think I could go AG for less than $150, not including a crusher (although I DID spend less on my crusher because I built it myself using scrap materials at work..)

Tis the Kegging that will break your bank!

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

True but Extract/Grain/Hops and boil is just like opening a can of Ragu, adding onions, peppers and mushrooms. Finishing it off with herbs and letting it simmer all day.

At the end of the day, you have some great sauce but I for one wouldn't claim to have MADE spaghetti sauce.

I realllly disagree with that. Skipping one step (mashing) is not causing me to lose a wink of sleep. My extract is very fresh and there are many many varieties.

If you're starting with tomatoes, then I'm starting with tomato paste. Big deal.

 

[maida7]

I realllly disagree with that. Skipping one step (mashing) is not causing me to lose a wink of sleep. My extract is very fresh and there are many many varieties.

If you're starting with tomatoes, then I'm starting with tomato paste. Big deal.

Right On! This is a hobby. If you enjoy using extract then that's all the reason you need. It doesn't make you any less of a brewer and I have no doubt that extract can make world class beer.

Besides, any monkey can make wort. Real brewers know the secret to making great beer is in the fermentation.

 

[HItransplant]

True but Extract/Grain/Hops and boil is just like opening a can of Ragu, adding onions, peppers and mushrooms. Finishing it off with herbs and letting it simmer all day.

At the end of the day, you have some great sauce but I for one wouldn't claim to have MADE spaghetti sauce.

I dissagree.

now, if you grew your grain, or at least malted it, then you might have an argument....

Im by no means experienced... but i dont think mashing is that difficult, once you zero in on your equipment's idiosyncrasies.

maida7 said it right, proof is in the pu...ah...er... fermentation?

Either way, I think that what makes a brewer is the knowledge and experience they possess, not the particular process they use. Anyone can follow a recipe... but that experience and knowledge allow those little adjustments and thats what I think produces the best product... in beer and in life. Whoa, I think I need a drink.

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

Thumbs up to that!

 

[Detphx]

I'm new to homebrewing and I must say... I love it !! I will stay with the whole extract thing till I'm good enough to move on to AG. I think people needs to stick with what they like, not givin into the pure pressure from others. Just my 2 cents.
"Cheers"

 

[elproducto]

I'm new to homebrewing and I must say... I love it !! I will stay with the whole extract thing till I'm good enough to move on to AG. I think people needs to stick with what they like, not givin into the pure pressure from others. Just my 2 cents.
"Cheers"

I went AG after 4 batches. Don't be afraid, it's really not that difficult. Just do lots of reading! My first AG batch went without a hitch, and I hit all my numbers and got 76% efficiency.

At approx. 65cents/pound of 2-row.. it's awesome.

 

[CrookedTail]

I brew partial mash and extract beers. I haven't moved to all grain mainly because I live in an apartment and space is an issue.

I love both. There is a satisfaction that you get in mashing because you're creating what the extract already gives you. However I also enjoy the simplicity of extract brewing. Building your beer's malt profile with steeping grains requires a great degree of creativity as well. I don't think there is a superior method so long as your fermentation process is sound.

 

[mlanoue]

Mashing is an interesting process, for sure. I was glad to try it a few times--just to see how it all works. The process is really simple when you consider what's going on. However, while I was going through the process last time, I realized that I just didn't enjoy it all that much. I thought to myself, instead of spending an hour waiting for this stuff to convert, I could have just dumped a bag of DME in here and been done with it. I felt kind of like a quitter. But, I'll go back and try again sometime.

Oddly ehough, I get kind of a rush when openeng a can of extract--especially a hopped one like Coopers. Piercing the top of the can, you hear a woosh, then get the blast of malt and hop aroma. No, it's not old world tradition, for sure. More like prohibition-era tradition. But, I still think it's cool.

 

[permo]

Mashing is an interesting process, for sure. I was glad to try it a few times--just to see how it all works. The process is really simple when you consider what's going on. However, while I was going through the process last time, I realized that I just didn't enjoy it all that much. I thought to myself, instead of spending an hour waiting for this stuff to convert, I could have just dumped a bag of DME in here and been done with it. I felt kind of like a quitter. But, I'll go back and try again sometime.

Oddly ehough, I get kind of a rush when openeng a can of extract--especially a hopped one like Coopers. Piercing the top of the can, you hear a woosh, then get the blast of malt and hop aroma. No, it's not old world tradition, for sure. More like prohibition-era tradition. But, I still think it's cool.

Making beer is cool now matter how you do it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Pacific Coast in Oakland.
They run an extract brew system.

Well, to be completely fair about it, they haven't won squat post 2000.

Also, I don't think i'd use one of the oldest homebrewing books (joy of homebrewing) to justify the merits of extract brewing.


I'm not saying extract beers are bad, just arguing against of the arguments for it.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Maybe Coopers or Muntons EXTRACT-ONLY cans are like warming up a can of Ragu, but EXTRACT/GRAIN/HOPS 1 hour boil is not at all like that imho.

EXACTLY.

I did 30 or so EXTRACT PM batches.....



THEN....2 AG batches. Both HUGE successes.

I have done 30 or so PM batches since. AG was fine and educational.

PM is fine for me. My time is worth Alot, and I don't have enough of it.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

I've been an extract brewer for 7 years and have no plans of changing. I was tempted to try all-grain, but:

-- takes an entire day just to brew one batch

-- costs an arm and a leg for the needed equipment

-- need a special space; cannot do it in the kitchen

Seems to me it's only beneficial for:

-- single people

-- soon-to-be divorced people

-- people who want to brew far more than 5 gallons at a time

-- people who believe their palates are more discriminating that a jeweler's eye and will not settle for being on the slightest side of imperfect

All due respect, but you really should come to my house. I brew 5 AG batches in a kitchen with my girl. It takes about 5 hours with cleanup. I aerate it with an egg beater and I boil on the stove. It ain't rocket science.

 

[cheezydemon3]

PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO MIKE GOTTSCH.

JESUS!!! 5 posts in and you all have corrected him no less than 20 times. LET HIM HIDE HIS HEAD IN PEACE!

I WILL do more AG in the future, but I chose to go back to PM.

BAKING SODA has made all the difference.

 

[PUD]

Just brewed and extract w/ grains and PM last weekend for the first time in a couple of years. Its nice to mix up the process.

 

[mlanoue]

Baking soda? How do you mean?