Overheat water for mash tun??

[Beerbuck]

After reading lots of post concerning the mashing. I would like to know the truth. Do I need to really overheat my water before putting it in my mash tun or it depends which sort of beer im brewing?

I read some post that they said the temp will low when ill add my grain.

Would like to try haus pale ale for my first all grain.

which says :

Mash
Single Infusion mash for 60 minutes at 152 degrees.
I batch sparge in a 10 gallon water cooler with a stainless braid manifold. Click here for great info on Batch Sparging.
Dough-in with 3.5 gallons of water. After 60 minutes, add 5 quarts of 175 degree water and begin vorlauf. My system only takes about 2 quarts before it clears up, then it's wide open to drain in the kettle. Have another 3.25 gallons of 175 degree water ready for the next batch sparge. You should then get 6.5 gallons to your kettle for the boil

Is the 152 right of I should go over a little to get 152 into my mash tun?
And the 175 is good for sparging?

What about effeciency? Do i really need to calculate how many gallon ill get in my kettle or just need to get my OG to know whats my % effiency?

Thank you

 

[shecky]

You're going to get heat transferrence from grain to water. For example, I typically lose about 12 degrees when I dough in. So, for your example of 152 I would preheat my tun with 167 degree water or so, let it sit a bit to preheat, let it drop to 164 and then dough in.

Yes, you need to know what's going into the BK to get your efficiency. If you overshoot your intended boil volume, you're going to have diluted wort and thus your OG will be low.

175 for sparging is what I use. I typically get 75-80% efficiency.

 

[jkarp]

Welcome!

Sounds like you don't have any brewing software so pop over to TastyBrew where there's calculators for figuring your strike temps to reach those mash targets and loads more.

 

[willynilly]

Your strike water MUST be hotter than your mash temp. When you add that grain, it will drop the water temp by about 10-12F. This is why people use strike temp. calculators to figure this part out.

TO determine eff. you have to know volume and SG

 

[Q2XL]

I finally have my system nailed and I heat up my mash water 12F hotter then what I aiming shooting for.

 

[Beerbuck]

Fast and accuracy, will check the software tomorrow going to bed! will reply tomorrow!

 

[chefchris]

great advice, but don't carve the 12 degree rule in stone. I lose 15 degrees every time. You just have to figure it out your first couple of tries. I will say it's easier to bring the temp down once you add the grains than it is to bring the temp back up. If it's too hot, just stir the crap out of it and leave the lid off a couple minutes. Too cold and you have to either heat up more water or draw some liquid off the mash and heat it up. Believe me, the latter is a huge pain in the ass.

 

[jldc]

great advice, but don't carve the 12 degree rule in stone. I lose 15 degrees every time. You just have to figure it out your first couple of tries. I will say it's easier to bring the temp down once you add the grains than it is to bring the temp back up. If it's too hot, just stir the crap out of it and leave the lid off a couple minutes. Too cold and you have to either heat up more water or draw some liquid off the mash and heat it up. Believe me, the latter is a huge pain in the ass.

The problem with the "12 degree rule" is that there are too many variables. What temp is the grain? Did you pre-heat the mash tun? Are you mashing thick or thin?

So use software (or an online calculator) and pre heat your mash tun. If you do that, you will be within a degree in my experience. If the software says add 3.75 gallons of 162 degree water, I add 168+ degree water to my mash tun (round 10 gallon cooler). I let it sit with the lid on for ten minutes, then check the temp. It it's over 162, I take the lid off and check the temp every minute or two until we're at EXACTLY my strike temp (162 in this example). Then add your grain and your mash temp will be right on - every time.

 

[Beerbuck]

So use software (or an online calculator) and pre heat your mash tun. If you do that, you will be within a degree in my experience. If the software says add 3.75 gallons of 162 degree water, I add 168+ degree water to my mash tun (round 10 gallon cooler). I let it sit with the lid on for ten minutes, then check the temp. It it's over 162, I take the lid off and check the temp every minute or two until we're at EXACTLY my strike temp (162 in this example). Then add your grain and your mash temp will be right on - every time.

Wont you loose temp if you add your grain? Or because you pre heat the lost is less ?

 

[pksmitty]

Strike temp is the water temperature when you add the grain. Adding the grain will lower the temperature to mash temp, which is where you want to be. You're confusing strike temp and mash temp.

 

[StarCityBrewMaster]

It all depends on your specific equipment.

I did the Hause Pale Ale as well and have it in secondary right now dry hopping on some Cascade hopes. It smell great!

My system requires that I bring the strike water in at 7 degrees higher than the dough in temp or it will fall short of the desired temp.

For example if I am to dough in @167 to get a desired mash temp @ 152 then I pour my water in @ 174, close the lid and let it sit for 5 - 10 minutes allowing my cooler to absorb some of the heat. When I check it again the temp has usually fallen to right around 170. I stir a little allowing heat to escape and then dough in when it falls to 167. It's a whole lot easier to be on the high side with water and allow it to cool than it is to be on the low side and have to heat it up again.

Works every time and keeps my mash at a constant temp for 60 mins this way.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you mash in the same vessel that you heat the water in (a pot), then you only have to account for heat lost to the grain. That's about 10F. If you mash in a different vessel like a cooler, you have to account for the heat the cooler and grain will steal. That's more like 20F but it is true, too many variables to cut it into two rules of thumb.

 

[jldc]

If you mash in the same vessel that you heat the water in (a pot), then you only have to account for heat lost to the grain. That's about 10F.

But it varies based on mash thickness and grain temp. If you mash at 2 qts/lb you will have less temp loss than if you mash at 1 qt/lb. If you add grain from a 30 degree garage you will have more temp loss than room temp grain. It's 2010, use software or a calculator.

That said, for your setup, whatever it is, if you always mash at the same thickness and use the same temp grain, it should be a fairly constant drop of around 10 degrees.

 

[Beerbuck]

I think ill rise my temp higher that I need for my mash tem and ill w8 until my cooler heat it up, and when ill strike my mash temp ill just drop my grain. It is better to take couple of degres for the lost of my grain or it dosent really matter?

 

[Bobby_M]

But it varies based on mash thickness and grain temp. If you mash at 2 qts/lb you will have less temp loss than if you mash at 1 qt/lb. If you add grain from a 30 degree garage you will have more temp loss than room temp grain. It's 2010, use software or a calculator.

Yeah, that's why I was careful to use words like

If you mash in the same vessel that you heat the water in (a pot), then you only have to account for heat lost to the grain. That's about 10F. If you mash in a different vessel like a cooler, you have to account for the heat the cooler and grain will steal. That's more like 20F but it is true, too many variables to cut it into two rules of thumb.

I was explaining the concept of temp losses in general to someone who sounded like they didn't know anything about it. Yes, I agree software is the way to figure it all out.

 

[SnallygasterBrewery]

I agree. Software + trial and error. And I always, always advocate good notes. They will save your ass and will be the one tool you can really rely on to ensure your brews are getting better over time by making sure you don't repeat the same mistakes time and again.

 

[chefchris]

The problem with the "12 degree rule" is that there are too many variables. What temp is the grain? Did you pre-heat the mash tun? Are you mashing thick or thin?

So use software (or an online calculator) and pre heat your mash tun. If you do that, you will be within a degree in my experience. If the software says add 3.75 gallons of 162 degree water, I add 168+ degree water to my mash tun (round 10 gallon cooler). I let it sit with the lid on for ten minutes, then check the temp. It it's over 162, I take the lid off and check the temp every minute or two until we're at EXACTLY my strike temp (162 in this example). Then add your grain and your mash temp will be right on - every time.

it's funny, no matter what I get a 15 degree loss. I mash from 1 qt/lb up to 2 qt/lb. I always preheat.