Out of ideas--foaming

[mongoose33]

I started a thread about this earlier, had some good input:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=591292

Unfortunately, none of it has worked.

The backstory: I have a version of Biermuncher's Black Pearl Porter on tap. Great beer. Added some vanilla, LHBC liked. I like.

Only problem is, it pours like foam. I've tried everything I can think of, and the suggestions offered here.

• Longer lines. No.
  
• 3/16" lines. Even 10' long. No.
  
• Overcarbination. Purged pressure repeatedly till it was only lightly carbonated, checked w/ pressure gauge. No.
  
• Thought it might be an o-ring failure in the dip tube. No.
  
• Thought it might be a pinhole in the dip tube. Swapped dip tubes with a keg where there are no problems. No.
  
• Added a fan to evenly cool inside keezer. No.
  
• Added insulation inside collar. No.
  
• I have Perlick flow control faucets. No.
  
• Swapped lines between kegs. No.
  
• Cleaned all the lines. No.

I am absolutely out of ideas. I would have bet $100 that swapping the dip tubes would have identifed the culprit. But no. Below are some pics. I get bubbles in the beer line coming out of the keg. One pic shows that. One shows my pressure (8 psi). One shows the result.

What am I missing here? This is driving me crazy!

 

[day_trippr]

Have you tried swapping beer lines - QD and all - with a keg that is pouring well?

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Have you tried swapping beer lines - QD and all - with a keg that is pouring well?

Cheers!

Yes, I have. I didn't note it--I'll go back and edit the original--that I swapped lines, in fact I cleaned all the lines as well. I've done everything I can think of to isolate the problem and nothing has done it.

 

[imasickboy]

It's possibly the QD. The pin in it could be in backwards. That will certainly cause your symptoms.

 

[day_trippr]

Ok, that's good to know.
You swapped the Out dip tube, have you tried swapping the Out post?

btw, you mentioned seeing gas bubbles coming from the keg.
Was that while pouring, or while it was just sitting there?

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

Ok, that's good to know.
You swapped the Out dip tube, have you tried swapping the Out post?

btw, you mentioned seeing gas bubbles coming from the keg.
Was that while pouring, or while it was just sitting there?

Cheers!

I've seen it both ways....but I have not swapped the out posts. I'll try that.

I did pull it apart, clean it, and reapply keg lube to the poppet o-ring.

 

[benco]

I read the other thread just to see what was going on and I don't know. Just curious it looks that keg on the left has beer all over it, is it lube up good, are you using up a lot of gas.

 

[mongoose33]

I've seen it both ways....but I have not swapped the out posts. I'll try that.

I did pull it apart, clean it, and reapply keg lube to the poppet o-ring.

Just got done swapping them. No dice. Same old thing.

 

[mongoose33]

I read the other thread just to see what was going on and I don't know. Just curious it looks that keg on the left has beer all over it, is it lube up good, are you using up a lot of gas.

That's star-san--whenever I add QDs to a keg I spray the posts and the inside of the QDs.

I lubed them up very well.

Using a lot of gas? No.

 

[mongoose33]

It's possibly the QD. The pin in it could be in backwards. That will certainly cause your symptoms.

I changed out the QD, I've swapped lines. No effect.

 

[skraeling]

Ok crazy desperate at this point right? Tried a different keg? Has this particular keg ever caused problems before? It's late and I'm tired so I havnt read up on the problem yet, but how is the co2 going into this keg. Is it on it's own line is it coming off a secondary regulator?

It's like trouble shooting a computer. How do you cut down as many variables as possible.

How long has this been set to 8psi? Did you force carb at a higher psi?

If I can get away with my crap picnic tap and 5ft of line at 11psi your setup at 8 shouldn't be a problem.

 

[mongoose33]

Ok crazy desperate at this point right?

No, not crazily so, but I cannot believe I can't isolate it. It's not like I haven't had a dozen great comments from people on HBT.

Tried a different keg?

That's a possibility. Not quite sure how to make that happen w/ all the foam coming out of it. I have a jumper I could fill another keg with, from this one. There's maybe only 2 gallons of beer left in the keg, so maybe I could partially fill, wait for the foam to subside, fill more, and so on.

Has this particular keg ever caused problems before?

No, it's never been used (by me) before. Bought it used. But I've swapped dip tubes, swapped the post (and by implication, the poppet), tried different QDs, different lines....

It's late and I'm tired so I havnt read up on the problem yet, but how is the co2 going into this keg. Is it on it's own line is it coming off a secondary regulator?

It's coming out of a distribution rig. I actually had a different regulator setup before this one, swapped it out. Didn't say that before because it didn't matter in solving the problem. It's a tri-regulator setup--want to buy it?

It's like trouble shooting a computer. How do you cut down as many variables as possible.

Been working on that.

How long has this been set to 8psi? Did you force carb at a higher psi?

Long time. My first thought was overcarbonation as I once had that issue, but I purged and purged that keg to get it down to almost no carbonation, and it didn't matter.

If I can get away with my crap picnic tap and 5ft of line at 11psi your setup at 8 shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, you'd think. It pours better out of a picnic tap but still foamy.

 

[skraeling]

Well maybe transfer to a new keg if possible. If it foams? Who cares really its all carb you'll just replace anyway right. I say give it a shot with the method of your choosing.

Or just say damn it all jam a racking cane into the end of the picnic and fill into the new one or do a jumper liquid out to liquid out. Fill bleed pressure fill more bleed pressure. Should work fairway well.

 

[mongoose33]

Well maybe transfer to a new keg if possible. If it foams? Who cares really its all carb you'll just replace anyway right. I say give it a shot with the method of your choosing.

Or just say damn it all jam a racking cane into the end of the picnic and fill into the new one or do a jumper liquid out to liquid out. Fill bleed pressure fill more bleed pressure. Should work fairway well.

I'll give that a try tomorrow.

Worst thing about all this? To test, I have to pour. Once poured, I have to let the foam subside. Then what? Throw it away? No. Drink it.

I'm getting tired of Vanilla porter. I really wanted to bottle most of this and put it away for months an see what it does aging.

 

[skraeling]

Look at it this way at least it's a rather intriguing problem. This will be helpful reference for future google searches for someone.

 

[E_Rock]

If you pour two pints, does the second one exhibit the same amount of foam?

 

[mongoose33]

If you pour two pints, does the second one exhibit the same amount of foam?

Yes it does. I thought it might be warm lines or something along that track, but I don't have this issue w/ the other three kegs.

 

[E_Rock]

Yes it does. I thought it might be warm lines or something along that track, but I don't have this issue w/ the other three kegs.

Hmmm. I wish I had a better idea for you. My foaming issue was solved after I realized I had over carbed the kegs due to my lack of patience. But you already addressed that. Best of luck!

 

[mongoose33]

OK; transferred the beer to a different keg; it now pours beautifully.

I'm not calling it a win quite yet until the beer has had a chance to settle; there was a fair amount of foam in the new keg, and it may be that the carbonation level is low enough presently that there's not an issue. It's on the gas, and I'll see how it's doing later tonite and tomorrow. But it sure was nice to see beer flowing through the lines without bubbles!

 

[casualbrewer]

I know in my keezer I had to put up a piece of foam on certain inside walls as it was causing the beer to start freezing. If the ice formed just right it would create a foamy mess. Might not be your problem but it was a problem for me.

 

[ViciousFishes]

At least it seems you've narrowed the issue down to something having to do with your old keg. Now... unfortunately, I have had this problem recently with Torpedo kegs. The liquid out dip tube flange is prone to separating from the dip tube itself, causing air to get into/intermixed with the beer on the way to the tap. Morebeer's customer service has been quite excellent - they've replaced two dip tubes, a keg and recently sent me 3 more dip tubes. They seem to have intimated that it's a problem with their 'supplier'.

Just letting you know in case the Torpedo keg provides a similar foaming problem that the sources may be unrelated.

 

[skraeling]

OK; transferred the beer to a different keg; it now pours beautifully.

I'm not calling it a win quite yet until the beer has had a chance to settle; there was a fair amount of foam in the new keg, and it may be that the carbonation level is low enough presently that there's not an issue. It's on the gas, and I'll see how it's doing later tonite and tomorrow. But it sure was nice to see beer flowing through the lines without bubbles!

View attachment 372936

Glad my idea was at least initially a success. So yeah there may have been a leak somewhere where air was entering upstream of the faucet

 

[mongoose33]

Tonite I poured a couple for some visitors, and no foaming problem. Switching kegs fixed the issue. Now, all I wish is that I could figure out what on earth is wrong with that keg.

Thank you to all for the help; wish I had more to offer back as a cause, but for now, I do not.

 

[day_trippr]

If all accept that it wasn't simply an over-carbed beer (that got knocked down to a more reasonable level during the keg-keg transfer) I would focus on the threaded Out riser and how well the long dip tube fits.

If there's a dent or a projection atop the riser, perhaps it's not letting the dip tube flange sit flat, causing the small O-ring to fail to seal the riser/dip tube/Out post assembly and allowing CO2 to be injected into the beer stream...

Cheers!

 

[mongoose33]

If all accept that it wasn't simply an over-carbed beer (that got knocked down to a more reasonable level during the keg-keg transfer) I would focus on the threaded Out riser and how well the long dip tube fits.

If there's a dent or a projection atop the riser, perhaps it's not letting the dip tube flange sit flat, causing the small O-ring to fail to seal the riser/dip tube/Out post assembly and allowing CO2 to be injected into the beer stream...

Cheers!

Very good idea. So I pulled the post to check; here's what it looks like:



No projections or divots that I can see. The discoloration at the top is just that.

 

[mongoose33]

Not quite a necro-thread, but I have some of an update on this issue.

At the end, to clear the keezer and the keg, I bottled up 12 out of the keg, thinking I'd put them in the basement to age, which I then did. Since October. Nearly 6 months.

This was done in anticipation of celebrating with these at my daughter's wedding reception tomorrow. Pretty good planning, eh?

So Wednesday night I put a bottle in the refrigerator to chill. This morning I decide to see how it is, opened it, and guess what? Gusher! Tried to pour it, and nothing but foam, foam, foam.

Driving me crazy. This afternoon, my son comes home for the wedding, and he suggests checking the gravity of the foaming beer. Good idea.

The original gravity of this beer was 1.020, which given that it had unfermentables like lactose and maltodextrine, was just about right on.

Rather than leave you in suspense, here's the hydrometer reading this afternoon:



So. The beer had an infection. My first one. I opened up a couple more bottles, more gushers. The beer dropped from 1.020 to 1.010, and I don't know what was munching on the unfermentables, but they were fermented. Or something.

I'm getting foam out of another porter (same recipe), same problem of foaming from the tap. It just started after cleaning the beer lines, and I'm wondering if I have a similar problem brewing. We checked the gravity on that, and it's exactly the same as when I kegged it, so nothing there.

The mystery continues, but I guess I can add myself to the "infection" club. No idea why or how.