Organic way to keep bugs off Hops!

[jonmohno]

I cant beleive people are saying chemicals make us live longer. Wrong.Cancer and all these diseases we have now are because of the abuse of our food for the sake of profit,some people are clearly cluelss, but will see once they spend their retirement money fighting the mysterious cancers,give me a break they are man made the tainted air you breath,the food you buy gmo included chlorinated water. How fat is america now?Hmm. Yeah we are not living longer as long as monsanto and mcdonalds keep it up.

 

[smuth10]

I was thinking the same thing, but sometimes you just have to let people figure it out for themselves. For years most of my family and friends thought I was nuts and now a lot of them are having health problems because of their diets and environments (IE household chemicals, pesticides, etc). Now they are coming to me for information on what they should do. I hate to see it get to that point, but most of the time it takes someone to get really sick before they make a change.

 

[tcory77]

This is a long thread, just wanted to add my 2 cents even though I am not sure I have read all of the posts.

I keep a water hose hooked up in my back yard and when it really starts getting hot here is when i see the bugs start to get on my hops. I spray them down in the morning and the evening and noticed last year that it did a great job at getting the bugs off and to a great extent getting them to leave for good.

Just a thought, it has worked well for me.

 

[KoedBrew]

I agree about the chemicals...I want them as far as possible from the stuff I eat.
The worst thing is that GMOs are starting to get into everything and the more I read about them the more they piss me off!

Thank God our Barley and hops aren't GMO yet!!

As for just spraying the hops off with a hose, I think that is just a quick temporary fix? Just my opinion, I spray my grape vines with the hose and they are covered again within an hour??

 

[rollinred]

I agree about the chemicals...I want them as far as possible from the stuff I eat.
The worst thing is that GMOs are starting to get into everything and the more I read about them the more they piss me off!

Thank God our Barley and hops aren't GMO yet!!

As for just spraying the hops off with a hose, I think that is just a quick temporary fix? Just my opinion, I spray my grape vines with the hose and they are covered again within an hour??

I don't even know how you guys can possibly use a spray of water to rid your plants of aphids.

My plants are over 20 feet tall during late year and these bugs are hiding EVERYWHERE. Including getting in to the cones themselves where water and ladybugs can not get. And this is in a year where I monitored the hops almost daily.

Not a chance that a spray of water does anything for me. Except knock off a few on the lower leaves but hundreds still remain.

 

[rexbanner]

I truly do not understand why GMOs are bad for you. Can someone please explain?

As for pesticides, if they wash off, fine. If you can grow without them, good. I don't really care, but I'm never going to pay much more for organic stuff. First, my mom already grows a ton of organic produce. Second, I've yet to hear conclusive evidence that pesticides cause health problems when administered properly. Saying "all my relatives have health problems now" isn't enough. I'm willing to believe that chemicals in your food are bad, but please show me some evidence.

My hops just started, and depending on the bug problems, they might have to be nuked. Is nicotine an "organic" pesticide?

 

[rexbanner]

I truly do not understand why GMOs are bad for you. Can someone please explain?

Well, I just spent the last 15 mins researching it. Damn, I wish I hadn't. While there hasn't been proof GMOs are harmful, there has also been no long-term research. This could be bad. They're in everything.

 

[ThickHead]

Second, I've yet to hear conclusive evidence that pesticides cause health problems when administered properly. Saying "all my relatives have health problems now" isn't enough. I'm willing to believe that chemicals in your food are bad, but please show me some evidence.

I think it is fair to say that there have been myriad instances where synthetic chemical pesticides are proven to cause health problems. More specifically, environmental health problems (an example would be DDT). While it can be argued that DDT has not been proven to cause significant health problems to humans it was most certainly proven to be toxic to a wide variety of wildlife (fish, amphibians, many birds of prey, etc.). So while we (humans) may not have shown significant signs of health problems due to the use of DDT, the world around us certainly did. How long do you think we could continue to kill the things around us without bringing health problems onto ourselves (perhaps not directly) but indirectly through ignoring the wider environmental impact?

I don't mean to sound like a tree-hugging environmentalist. I am certainly not one. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the environment either. I am just saying that there is a reason why miners used to carry canaries around with them as early warning signals. Know what I mean?

 

[KoedBrew]

@Rex before he looked it up and anyone who doesn't know. GMO genetically modified organisms are not some scientists going in to a plant with tiny micro tweezers and moving a gene from one plant to another. THEY USE A VIRUS!! That is correct they use a virus to infect the plant they are trying to change and cause a genetic mutation withing that plant so that it is resistant to something else.
If that is not bad enough, they make something like soy or alfalfa "Round-up Ready." You know what that means? They can spray this alfalfa with Round-up to kill all the weeds around it, then the round-up is absorbed into these alfalfa plants, the alfalfa is given to cattle. The cattle are then given hormones and antibiotics to counter the effects of the round-up alfalfa and then you and I eat the cow.
Or we just eat the corn/soy/canola that they have genetically modified to be treated this way.

Trust me this is not some left-wing issue, I am a Libertarian this issue has nothing to do with which way you lean.

As for the term "organic" it means almost nothing anymore. I know I posted it in the beginning, because that is what people know. Organic basically means carbon based...but regardless if people want to spray insecticides all on their hops, go for it, I just think people need to realize what they are consuming. Maybe?

 

[nefarious_1_]

I think it is fair to say that there have been myriad instances where synthetic chemical pesticides are proven to cause health problems. More specifically, environmental health problems (an example would be DDT). While it can be argued that DDT has not been proven to cause significant health problems to humans it was most certainly proven to be toxic to a wide variety of wildlife (fish, amphibians, many birds of prey, etc.). So while we (humans) may not have shown significant signs of health problems due to the use of DDT, the world around us certainly did. How long do you think we could continue to kill the things around us without bringing health problems onto ourselves (perhaps not directly) but indirectly through ignoring the wider environmental impact?

I don't mean to sound like a tree-hugging environmentalist. I am certainly not one. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the environment either. I am just saying that there is a reason why miners used to carry canaries around with them as early warning signals. Know what I mean?

Thanks for clearing that up: I was wondering why "DET" was being referenced: DET is a psychedelic drug very similar to DMT in chemical composition and is very different from DDT, the once used pesticide.
DDT proved to be severely detrimental to Peregrine Falcon and Osprey populations, nearly wiping out both before finally being banned in 1972. Since being banned, both bird populations have made startling comebacks and were removed from the endangered species list but still remain "protected." Due to proven bioaccumulation in animals, it was only a matter of time before adverse effects were noticed in humans. So much for chemical pesticides...
Furthermore, the life span of human beings has improved significantly not because of the use of chemicals in farming, but because of the advance of medical science. Chemical fertilizers and pesticides do little, if any, to control illness and disease in humans: they are made in an attempt to improve plant vitality, not human immunity. Attempting to draw a correlation between chemical farming and human lifespan is a huge stretch with far more evidence pointing to other factors. Seek and ye shall find...

 

[DrJerryrigger]

@Rex before he looked it up and anyone who doesn't know. GMO genetically modified organisms are not some scientists going in to a plant with tiny micro tweezers and moving a gene from one plant to another. THEY USE A VIRUS!! That is correct they use a virus to infect the plant they are trying to change and cause a genetic mutation withing that plant so that it is resistant to something else.
If that is not bad enough, they make something like soy or alfalfa "Round-up Ready." You know what that means? They can spray this alfalfa with Round-up to kill all the weeds around it, then the round-up is absorbed into these alfalfa plants, the alfalfa is given to cattle. The cattle are then given hormones and antibiotics to counter the effects of the round-up alfalfa and then you and I eat the cow.
Or we just eat the corn/soy/canola that they have genetically modified to be treated this way.

Trust me this is not some left-wing issue, I am a Libertarian this issue has nothing to do with which way you lean.

As for the term "organic" it means almost nothing anymore. I know I posted it in the beginning, because that is what people know. Organic basically means carbon based...but regardless if people want to spray insecticides all on their hops, go for it, I just think people need to realize what they are consuming. Maybe?

Well the virus is one way of doing it, there are other more mechanical ways. With the virus way, they kill off the virus right away, wile the plant is just a glob of cells on an agar plate (they just use antibiotics). The virus is not an uncommon one in nature, it causes scaring on trunks of trees.

Anyway, people see GMO's as a bad thing. I don't think it's so black and white. The round-up ready one, for example; it just has a DNA sequence from a plant that happens to be immune to round-up. The genetic differences don't make it less of a good food (in this case), the bad thing is that now; people can dump lots of round-up on it. It comes down to the farmer.
Then there are others like the new leaf potato (one of the first GMO's to go on the market). It has DNA that make the plant produce poison. I think only in the leaves, but if that DNA was put in spinach... On the other hand, people use huge amounts of pesticides on potatoes. If it's come from inside the leaves there is no run-off, and it doesn't get into the soil where the part you eat is.
I think GMO's can be a great thing; personally my main concern, is that the FDA is far too lax about testing. And these plants can be grown outside, where their pollen can spread to native plants. There are no simple answers here, and frankly it's not something that can be easily stopped. I've done a lot of research on the topic, and for less than $1000, I could make you a Cascade that glows in the dark.

 

[rniles]

I see it simply. If you want to use chemicals, use chemicals. If you want to grow organic, grow organic.

We should be free to choose without being called left wing socialists OR right wing fascists.

So if someone wants starts a thread on how to grow hops organically, he should be free to do so and those who have an answer to his question should post it. Those who don't should walk away.

..just a small rant from an old man.

As far as aphids, I have a spray bottle of water that I use and once a day, I go out there and spray any aphids I see. I can't seem to do the soap solution on plants now-a-days since the soaps are so concentrated. Water works fine for me but the ideas posted here by others seem sound.

So far I haven't had any other pest issue other than japanese beetles ..but they don't chew too much and are gone nearly as quickly as they start - so they don't do much damage.

 

[nefarious_1_]

+1






That said, I'm grabbing up some neem to combat Northeast pests...

 

[beerloaf]

I see it simply. If you want to use chemicals, use chemicals. If you want to grow organic, grow organic.

We should be free to choose without being called left wing socialists OR right wing fascists.

So if someone wants starts a thread on how to grow hops organically, he should be free to do so and those who have an answer to his question should post it. Those who don't should walk away.

..just a small rant from an old man.

I agree absolutely! It's your own business no one elses. After what happened in our garden last year I will spray the crap out of the hops and our vegetables with pesticides. Our entire garden was eaten by little critters, bugs, grubs whatever, because we (SWMBO) decided that we (SWMBO) wanted to grow organic and not use any evil pesticides. For us it was a very bad idea not to use any, and try to attempt to control it with "natural" methods. None of them worked and we lost a pretty nice garden that was full of good looking vegetables which we put a lot of time and effort into. You just have to do whatever works for you.

beerloaf

 

[brewser09]

I briefly skimmed the responses and i didn't see it so just to get back to the DE, there are 2 types of it, one is used for pool filters and from what i understand if it gets in your lungs it makes a bad day for everyone and it is FAR from organic and safe for food. However my SWMBO and i just got chickens and we went to our local MFA and purchased Food Grade DE for our chicken coop, its supposed to dry out the poop and not make the place stink from what i understand its made from shells and stuff. I have attached a link for review. I don't know how it works for insect repelant on hops but i will definetly be trying!! I should be getting it within the next few days a 50 lb bag of the stuff cost 24 bucks here in Missouri. Just be specific FOOD GRADE DE, it took me ten minutes talking to a few "good ole boys" until they finally looked it up and said "oh yeah we can get it!" The other stuff was gonna cost me over 65 bucks!! And was not safe for what i wanted to use it for.

http://www.shadowridgedonkeys.com/perma_food_grade.htm

 

[rollinred]

I see it simply. If you want to use chemicals, use chemicals. If you want to grow organic, grow organic.

We should be free to choose without being called left wing socialists OR right wing fascists.

So if someone wants starts a thread on how to grow hops organically, he should be free to do so and those who have an answer to his question should post it. Those who don't should walk away.

..just a small rant from an old man.

As far as aphids, I have a spray bottle of water that I use and once a day, I go out there and spray any aphids I see. I can't seem to do the soap solution on plants now-a-days since the soaps are so concentrated. Water works fine for me but the ideas posted here by others seem sound.

So far I haven't had any other pest issue other than japanese beetles ..but they don't chew too much and are gone nearly as quickly as they start - so they don't do much damage.

This is what I am saying. Use what you want.

But I do have to ask you say left wing socialist and right wing facist.

You do know that socialism and facism are both philosophies of the left wing. That is they are governmental control of industry/people.
Far right wing would be anarchy or lack of government, also meaning self government and personal responsibility.

Anyway not to hijack the thread but you were correct about the topic at hand. Do whatever you want to your hops.

And how the hell does a conversation about hops and chemicals become political?

 

[nefarious_1_]

I agree absolutely! It's your own business no one elses. After what happened in our garden last year I will spray the crap out of the hops and our vegetables with pesticides. Our entire garden was eaten by little critters, bugs, grubs whatever, because we (SWMBO) decided that we (SWMBO) wanted to grow organic and not use any evil pesticides. For us it was a very bad idea not to use any, and try to attempt to control it with "natural" methods. None of them worked and we lost a pretty nice garden that was full of good looking vegetables which we put a lot of time and effort into. You just have to do whatever works for you.

beerloaf

There are several OMRI certified organic pesticides on the market... Neem oil is one and Organocide is another. They both kill upwards of 25 species of insects as well as several fungal and viral strains. Preventative treatments are made once every two weeks or so and both products can be used up to 24 hours before harvest. How do you think organic farms do it?

 

[jfrank85]

There are several OMRI certified organic pesticides on the market... Neem oil is one and Organocide is another. They both kill upwards of 25 species of insects as well as several fungal and viral strains. Preventative treatments are made once every two weeks or so and both products can be used up to 24 hours before harvest. How do you think organic farms do it?

That's really the only thing I use on my stuff. Every 10 days as a preventative. Its easier to prevent problems than it is to fix them. IMO.

 

[Brewer3401]

Trying this, will let you know if it works (something is eating my tomatoes as they ripen)

Quart water
4 garlic cloves
1 onion
1 Tablespoon cayenne
1 Tablespoon Dawn (after blender)

Put in blender and pulverize to death. Let settle and run through fine strainer. Add Dawn.

Tried it today first time 05-24-11

 

[Brewer3401]

Sprayed on tomato plants, and have no signs of bugs eating my tomatoes.

Getting ripe ones daily - do notice they are a little sticky, but that's "organic" material on them - washes right off, and tomatoes taste very good.

I'll report back if this ceases to be effective.

I had no bug problems with my hops, but sprayed the first foot down and haven't noticed any change in leaf color or appearance.

Finally rained hard down here after almost 1 1/2 months of no rain

Need to re-apply pesticide tomorrow morning - I'm sure it's all washed off.

 

[KoedBrew]

2 questions I would have about your mix, though I think it would work because I know if you are companion planting that there is not much better than garlic and onion to keep pests away. Actually all of my hop plants have some companions
Yarrow - to attract ladybugs
Chives - pest deterrent
Mint- pest deterrent

My questions about spraying your mix on hops is what kind of effect will it have on the hop aroma? not sure if it will or not, but I would be interested to know.
And spraying cayenne on tomatoes would make me wonder if it would leech flavor??
Sounds good I just have some issues.

 

[O'Haggerty]

Back to the original question, and to debunk some comments.... best ways to deal with aphids/insects are:

Diatomaceous Earth: an extremely effective mechanical insecticide.
WEAR A MASK and Eye Protection. All DE can cause damage to soft/membranous tissue like lungs and eyes, and only because it is a powder consisting of microscopic silica (glass) shells that will wedge and cut/dehydrate tissues but more specifically they cut open the chitin exoskeletons of insects and cause them to dessicate (dry out) from the inside. Think of it as powdered broken glass.

Soapy water spray: If you're still having problems a non harmful method is to take a solution of plain dish soap & water and spray the plants during early to mid growth periods. Insects respire through tiny holes in their exoskeleton called spiracles. Bathing them in soapy film covers these holes and the insects suffocate to death. I would avoid spraying mature cones only because you risk washing away lupulin oil from the cones which defeats the whole purpose.

I live in a very lush green area and use no chemical insecticides so there are always plenty of garden insects around. I use these 2 methods and they work great. Other than a few small spider webs here and there during harvest, my hops are green, clean and healthy.

Aj, biochemist.

 

[ArcLight]

>>Remember if you use some chemical to kill the bugs that will be in your beer

That's not quite true, it depends when you spray and what you spray. If you spray your plants after you have harvested the flowers, you wont have to worry. If you spray while they have their flowers, then you have to worry. Some chemicals can be washed off - thats fine for apples - I wash them with soap and water - but thats not going to work for hops flowers.

The other thing to consider is what pest you are trying to get rid of. Fungus? Aphids? There are different chemicals for each.

 

[Pilgarlic]

The debate about chemicals goes round and round with all hard science indicating that chemicals are beneficial if used according to instruction.

Please, please publicize this because there are many, many scientists who don't know it yet and they're wasting alot of valuable time and energy, unaware that the question has been finally and indisputably resolved. I am so glad to know that all chemicals are beneficial so long as we do as the manufacturers tell us to. Life will be ever so much simpler for me now.

 

[Brewer3401]

2 questions I would have about your mix, though I think it would work because I know if you are companion planting that there is not much better than garlic and onion to keep pests away. Actually all of my hop plants have some companions
Yarrow - to attract ladybugs
Chives - pest deterrent
Mint- pest deterrent

My questions about spraying your mix on hops is what kind of effect will it have on the hop aroma? not sure if it will or not, but I would be interested to know.
And spraying cayenne on tomatoes would make me wonder if it would leech flavor??
Sounds good I just have some issues.

Ate 3 of them last night - tasted great, and did not taste anything but tomato - no pepper.
The skin on the tomatoes is pretty tight, so I don't think anything would get through them.
I will continue to use the spray on the red and green and report back if I sense any pepper taste on the ones that were green, then ripened.