Orfy's bud thread made me think.....

[Buford]

Sure it does.
In manufacturing, a common definition of quality is conformance to requirements. If BMC has determined that their market requirements are met with the swill they provide, then consistency is at least an important element of "quality".
The problem we homebrewers seem to have is a desire to impose our standards of taste on the masses.

Let me rephrase. If your manufacturing requirements are to, say, make a smelly turd exactly 6 inches in length every time and you hit that consistiently then yes - you have made a quality turd. Doesn't change the fact that the requirements are still for making a turd. The end product will still be s**t.

Joking aside, not all BMC is terrible crap. I'll drink some of it. It isn't what I'd call "good" beer, though, but that isn't what they're aiming for. They're aiming for the equivalent of fizzy McDonalds hamburgers in a bottle - cheap, easy to drink, and pretty tasteless. I doubt any chef would call a McD hamburger a good example of a hamburger, but it's what the masses like and therefore sells.

Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.

 

[SwAMi75]

Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.

Craft brewers have to have their staples that people will drink, too. And for people who like it to keep buying it, it has to be consistent. It's the same thing.....they're making the same stuff over and over again, and have to keep it consistent. It's the exact same, on a smaller scale. Sure, they can be creative, experiment, release new/different/seasonal stuff, but in the end it is the same. They make what they can sell, and they have to be consistent at it.

I'll take it a step further and say that most of your "craft" breweries are pretty crappy at consistency. I used to drink a lot of BMC, and every Miller Lite I ever had tasted exactly the same, and so on. A lot of the smaller breweries can't do that, and there are some who's beers I won't buy any more because I don't know what it is I am paying that premium price for. I don't care if it is "the brewer's art," I ain't buying it if there's a chance it is not good.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for BMC and their pisswater, market controlling techniques, etc. Just giving some food for thought.

 

[cha ngo]

Let me rephrase. If your manufacturing requirements are to, say, make a smelly turd exactly 6 inches in length every time and you hit that consistiently then yes - you have made a quality turd. Doesn't change the fact that the requirements are still for making a turd. The end product will still be s**t.

Joking aside, not all BMC is terrible crap. I'll drink some of it. It isn't what I'd call "good" beer, though, but that isn't what they're aiming for. They're aiming for the equivalent of fizzy McDonalds hamburgers in a bottle - cheap, easy to drink, and pretty tasteless. I doubt any chef would call a McD hamburger a good example of a hamburger, but it's what the masses like and therefore sells.

Craft brewing is an art. Mass manufacturing on the BMC scale is taking art and turning it into a commodity, and by doing so it loses most of its "soul". It becomes less about what it is and more about how much will sell. It is business, after all (and a damn good way to make money hand over fist), so I can't complain about that, but I wouldn't call megabrews an example of the brewer's art. A marketer's wet dream maybe, but not art.

We are in furious agreement!
My point was to not equate "quality" with excellence. Quality is what the customer says it is. BMC does not lack customers.
A bigger concern of mine is the co-opting of craft brews. My example is Blue Moon which I find many people enjoying. The problem I see is that mega produced pseudo craft brews like this will squeeze out the true "artists" by reducing the market. Inevitably (IMHO), these mega-craft brews will gravitate toward mediocrity to appeal to a wider base and although the readily available swill will improve slightly, those of us that enjoy a truly excellent product will find fewer choices.

 

[Buford]

That's the best part about home brewing, you can make what you like and not give a damn about market forces or if anyone else likes it, like a true artist

Starving artist maybe, but at least you have beer

 

[SwAMi75]

That's the best part about home brewing, you can make what you like and not give a damn about market forces or if anyone else likes it, like a true artist

Starving artist maybe, but at least you have beer

Yup!

 

[sause]

I agree with all the posts above. Playing my turn at being bird.

 

[sAvAgE]

I know that I have never liked Budweiser, Molson Canadian etc etc etc However I would like to say though that IF I decided to work as a brewmaster changing careers from Information Technology I would want to work at a brewery that I really admired for their quality of beer and not just for the sheer Vanity of a name. I would not want to work for the BIG GUYS however there are tons of little breweries around such as Alley Cat , or Big Rock, that make great beers in my opinion

 

[SwAMi75]

I agree with all the posts above. Playing my turn at being bird.

Ditto!

 

[sause]

Ditto!

Damn it! Out done once again.

 

[the_bird]

Damn it! Out done once again.

Jealous.

 

[alemonkey]

Keep in mind that the bigger the batch, the easier it is to be consistent. Bud brews a high gravity beer and then dilutes it down to the correct gravity. So, if they miss by a few points it's easy to adjust.

But, even thought I don't like it, I can't blame them. They're fulfilling a demand in the market, and if they didn't someone else would.

 

[sause]

Jealous.

Mother F**ker!:cross:

 

[Biermann]

Freakin post-whores.

 

[Biermann]

really. . .

 

[Biermann]

its immature. . .


:cross:

 

[Jim Karr]

Kind of reminds me of when I owned a record store.....REM was a very unknown band in their early days....the high school kids would come into my store and bitch and bitch because "REM has gone commercial, so now they're not cool anymore."

What? Just because a lot of people like them now, it's not cool to like them anymore?

Beer is the same way, too.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Kind of reminds me of when I owned a record store.....REM was a very unknown band in their early days....the high school kids would come into my store and bitch and bitch because "REM has gone commercial, so now they're not cool anymore."

What? Just because a lot of people like them now, it's not cool to like them anymore?

Beer is the same way, too.

That says it REAL well........
Maybe it's a curse of being an EAC.....or maybe i'm just drunk.

 

[Hippiefreak]

I'll admit I do bash AB quite frequently, but it's not because of their beer - it's there predatory practices that bug me.....

When Old Dominion Brewery was becoming popular in the NOVA area - King Wholesalers was happily carrying their products, and Dominion benefitted from the distribution that came with being supplied by one of AB's 'big boys'. After awhile, though - it seemed that AB felt 'threatened' by this microbrewery, and started to lean on the Kings to discontinue carrying the Dominion product, or risk losing their franchise rights to "The King of Beers".

Mr. King though about it long and hard, and finally he went to AB and explained to them that he thought he could make a pretty comfortable living selling the many types of beers that Dominion was carrying - without having to distribute AB products...after all, he was delivering custom brews that Dominion had made for a lot of the local restaurants, and he was having a hard time keeping the Dominion products in the stores!! Old Dominion was, at that point, able to produce something like 30,000 barrells a year - so it was a pretty good supply for a local market.

AB gave in, but only because they had other plans...........

They went to Jerry Bailey - owner of Old Dominion Breweries - and convinced him they could increase his distribution if he partnered with them......his brewery was already brewing beers for some of the other micros to make best use of his capacity - so it seemed like a win-win for everybody.........private company like that can always benefit from a little extra cash-flow - so I can't fault him for accepting their offer......

So, now.....I hear that Old Dominion Breweries is now owned by AB. If AB keeps their brews intact and doesn't try to cheapen them...I say cool...Mr. Bailey's gotten himself a nice retirement that started from selling root beer at the local fairs, and I can't fault him for deciding it was time.....BUT!!!!

If AB starts messing with the recipes that made these beers what they are in order to cater to a mass market, then I'm afraid they've lost me....

When I was last at the OD brewpub, most of the brewers there had seen the handwriting on the wall, and were making their way out the door to greener pastures....these were guys/gals who had been given complete control over their beers, and were afraid that someone else was going to start telling them how to make them. These folks were also the ones who started me on the path to homebrewing (left the brewery many times with several growlers full of beer, and a flask full of yeast). I respect their craft, and if they felt threatened, than I have to feel there was something going on that the public was unaware of.

Why does AB feel that they have to kill all the small-town breweries in order to remain competitive? When I go into Harris Teeter, AB/Miller/Coors products inhabit 1/2 the beer section, while the micros are stuffed on the other side. Why are they so scared of a 10-15% market share that is priced out of the range of most of their most loyal customers?

Sorry for the novel, but this is an obsession...My dad and I used to go to the local restaurants and stores and tell them that when they started supporting local businesses and carry local beers - that we would start supporting them as well. My dad's told me stories about his travels overseas where local beers were a source of local pride..

I guess I feel that this is a kind of community thing, and that each community should be allowed to establish themselves with their own micros - and not have to worry about some world domination issue trying to steal their identity.....

Hippie.....

P.S. cliff notes are available for those who ask