OK all you AG gurus

[ohiobrewtus]

I'm currently still brewing with extracts, but want to make the next step to AG. I had planned on slowly adding items as I could afford them (which could take quite a bit of time) because I don't like to do anything halfway. I've always been one to overdo things when it comes to equipment purchases.

Then I found this listing on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/7-gallon-Mash-L...1QQihZ005QQcategoryZ38172QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It claims to be a complete system for AG, but I'm not sure. If some of you have a sec could you review this for me and let me know if this seems like a decent 'starter' AG setup?

I'm thinking that if I can do this for under $130 with shipping ( plus the cost of a larger boil kettle) and it will at least get me familiar with the process of AG brewing then at least I'll know for sure if it's something that I want to invest a lot more money in down the road.

Off the top of my head, it seems like the HLT only being 5 gallons could be an issue - should probably consider an upgrade there?

For those that don't want to follow the link, it claims to include the following:



This system includes:

A BRAND NEW 7 gallon Coleman cooler serves as the mash tun.

A CPVC colletion manifold with small slots that allow wort to be collected from the bottom of the mash tun. (This works the same way as a "false bottom.")

A CPVC sparge manifold that is mounted into the lid of the mash tun - gently delivers water while sparging.

A CPVC faucet assembly that attaches to the collection manifold.

A 15" nylon hose that decreases the distance your wort will fall when draining into your brew kettle while sparging.

A BRAND NEW 5 gallon Rubbermaid cooler serves as the hot liquor tank / sparge vessel.

A CPVC faucet assembly that attaches to the hot liquor tank.

A second 15" nylon hose that runs from the hot liquor tank's faucet to the sparge manifold mounted in the mash tun.

A complete set of instructions, some of my favorite all-grain recipes, and a mash calculator (MS Excel file) to get you going.


And here are the pics included in the listing:

Any advice and/or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

It looks like a nice MLT and HLT, but I don't think you would be saving any money there. If you like making things with your hands, like me, then I suggest building it yourself. I get an extra sense of satisfaction with the things I build myself.

Also, it's not really complete, you'll still need a kettle, burner, and chiller.

 

[Ryanh1801]

Honestly why not just do it your self? I built my mash turn for 40 bucks. If your trying to save money their is no need to get a hot liquor tank. IMHO.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

It looks like a nice MLT and HLT, but I don't think you would be saving any money there. If you like making things with your hands, like me, then I suggest building it yourself. I get an extra sense of satisfaction with the things I build myself.

Also, it's not really complete, you'll still need a kettle, burner, and chiller.

I have a 210k btu burner and a chiller already, but I would need to get a larger boil kettle.

 

[RichBrewer]

I would agree that you could save some money by building one yourself. I would also go with a bigger mash tun 7 gallons could limit you somewhat.

 

[Ryanh1801]

I would agree that you could save some money by building one yourself. I would also go with a bigger mash tun 7 gallons could limit you somewhat.

Yep take it from me go with a 10 gal. I regret being cheap and getting a 5 gal. every time I brew.

 

[Big Al]

I've got a similar setup and it works pretty well. I already had the 5 Gal HLT so I didn't go that route. You don't really need that, but it does come in handy. I also bought the 12 Gal cooler from Chuck for 54.99. Check his website out (doesn't appear to be working at the moment) or email him.


I'm not really that handy and quite frankly didn't want to mess with trying to build it myself but I definately could have once I saw it! I'd definately recommend going with the 12 Gal cooler though. You could skip the HLT for now if you want to save some money and then decide later if you want it. I bought a keggle as well and use my smaller kettle just to heat the water to add. I could just as easily sparge from that but I've been putting it in the cooler since I have it!

 

[Drunkensatyr]

Are you sold on doing Fly sparge? You can start batch sparging for a LOT less. Cooler = 30.00 Fittings another 20.00 SS Braided supply line, 10.00 That leaves you 70.00 for a larger pot (10 gal should be the smallest you look at) and your first batch of grain. It will take you less than 30 min to make a batch sparge MLT

This build will work for most ALL coolers, not just the round Got Coolers

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23008

 

[FlyingHorse]

My first AG MLT was a homebuilt rectangular cooler with a similar sparge/manifold setup (only copper). I think the system you showed has a poorly designed sparge setup, it will be difficult to get an even sparge water distro because:

1) the cooler must be perfectly level, or more water will run out of the lower end (probably not a big deal, but something you shouldnt have to worry about
2) With the holes on the underside of the sparge piping, you'll have to boost the flow to a pretty high rate to even get water to flow out of the holes on the far left end. At low rates, it will all want to run out of the first holes it comes too (on the right). I actually put the slots more on the sides/top of my sparge tube to try to alleviate this problem, but that exacerbated the "must be level" issue. Regardless, it will be togh to get an even sparge. And you won;t know if you are, because...
3) You can't see what's going on with your sparge without opening the cooler...which of course, sends all your sparge water running to the back of the cooler, or all over your kitchen floor / garage / driveway.

I suppose if you wanted to batch sparge, this system would be fine...but then why pay for something that's been designed for fly sparging?

Even if you just buy a 10-gal round RubberMaid cooler at Home Depot for $50, and then buy all the other stuff (false bottom, sparge arm, through-cooler fitting, ball valve, etc.) you'll come close to the same cost with a minimum of DIY-work, and have a better system.

 

[EdWort]

I recommend a 10 gallon Rubbermaid water cooler with a stainless braid. I'm getting 80% inefficiency with batch sparging. It's the way to go for me!

 

[Got Trub?]

If money is tight AND you feel comfortable making stuff yourself then my 2 cents would be:

Forget the HLT - I've never found the need for one

Decide what kind of beers and the batch size you are most likely to make as this really determines how big your mash tun and boiling kettle need to be and build it yourself.

If you dream of brewing higher gravity beers then definitely go for a 10gal. I myself brew mostly lower gravity beers of less then about 1.050. For this a 7 gal mash tun works fine for either fly or batch sparging. On those occassions when I brew a bigger beer I do a partial mash with the amount of grain I can comfortably fit in my tun and add extra light DME to make up the difference.

 

[The Pol]

I say, if you have time and you like to work with your hands... look at a few designs and build your own custom setup. Why? Well, you can build it to your specs, you can include options that you like, you can exclude things that you don't want to mess with. You can save money by building this yourself, or spend more... mine for instance was about $180... BUT I have through the wall digital therms, I have SS sparge arms and false bottoms etc...
You will get alot of satisfaction from building one, but, some people don't like to build and prefer to just brew. My .02.

Pol

 

[BierMuncher]

...If your trying to save money their is no need to get a hot liquor tank. IMHO.

Agreed.

Go to Home Depot and spend $39 for a 10 gallon rubbermaid. Go to the plumbing department and you'll assemble a manifold for less than $20.

Hit this link for instructions on building your own. Spend the money you save on the other stuff you don't have.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Thanks for all of the great replies everyone.

I'd seen the DIY mash-tun post before, I guess I'm just impatient. The extract brews that I've done to this point are very good IMO so I'm VERY curious to see the difference in an AG brew.

Now that I think about it, it probably would be better to just do it myself. I'll check Menard's and Lowe's for coolers (no Home Depot or Sams Club within about 30 miles or so).

So where did most of you get your 10 Gal+ boil kettles? AHS has a 15g ss kettle for $184.99 (http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_33_463&products_id=10461). It will probably be a while before I'd ever get around to doing 10g batches, but I really don't want to have to turn around and buy a bigger kettle when/if I do get ready to do a 10g batch.

As for my sparging preference, I don't really have one since I've never actually done or been involved in an AG brew in any way. I would think that fly sparging would result in a higher efficiency, but a lot of what I've read on here over the last few months suggests otherwise.

When you guys batch sparge it's just all of the sparge water at once, eh? I guess it would only take a few minutes for all of the grains to fall back to the bottom?

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

 

[Got Trub?]

It will probably be a while before I'd ever get around to doing 10g batches, but I really don't want to have to turn around and buy a bigger kettle when/if I do get ready to do a 10g batch.

As for my sparging preference, I don't really have one since I've never actually done or been involved in an AG brew in any way. I would think that fly sparging would result in a higher efficiency, but a lot of what I've read on here over the last few months suggests otherwise.

When you guys batch sparge it's just all of the sparge water at once, eh? I guess it would only take a few minutes for all of the grains to fall back to the bottom?

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Another 2 cents...so that will be 4c worth total.

10g is alot of beer. Do you brew because brewing is fun or to have alot of beer, the same beer on hand. I like to brew and I like to change what I'm drinking so 5 g is enough for me. Also every year 5g gets heavier and heavier.

In terms of the process fly sparging will, with the right set-up and process be more efficient then batch sparging. For some that is the fun and challenge, for others some extra grain for an easier process is an acceptable compromise.

The most efficient form of batch sparging is done with 2 equal volumes of sparge water. You mash first, add whatever amount of water you need to account for grain absorption and get to 1/2 your boil volume, vorlauf and drain that then add the other 1/2 boil volume of sparge water, mix, vorlauf and drain again. It takes about 20 minutes as apposed to about 60 for an efficient fly sparge.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Another 2 cents...so that will be 4c worth total.

10g is alot of beer. Do you brew because brewing is fun or to have alot of beer, the same beer on hand. I like to brew and I like to change what I'm drinking so 5 g is enough for me. Also every year 5g gets heavier and heavier.

In terms of the process fly sparging will, with the right set-up and process be more efficient then batch sparging. For some that is the fun and challenge, for others some extra grain for an easier process is an acceptable compromise.

The most efficient form of batch sparging is done with 2 equal volumes of sparge water. You mash first, add whatever amount of water you need to account for grain absorption and get to 1/2 your boil volume, vorlauf and drain that then add the other 1/2 boil volume of sparge water, mix, vorlauf and drain again. It takes about 20 minutes as apposed to about 60 for an efficient fly sparge.

I'd estimate that 3/4 of all of my batches would continue to be 5g. I'd like to have the capacity to do a 10g batch every now and then for my favorite recipes, for when I eventually have my basement finished and will start kegging, and for special occasions like cookouts and parties since my friends can all drink A LOT of beer. That and I usually end up giving away 30-40% of what I brew now to my buddies as long as they bring me my bottles back. If they don't they're cut off from the homebrew.

I just turned 34 and have 4 young kids to haul around. 5g hasn't gotten heavy yet, but I'm sure that it will eventually.

Your 4c is much appreciated trub

 

[The Pol]

I had a 5 gallon setup for a year, it sucked. Why? Well if you were mashing over 10lbs of grain youwere screwed. If you wanted to step mash anything with water infusions, which I do alot, you were screwed. My new setup is 10 gallons and I just procured a keggle so that I can brew and boil up to 10 gallons at a time. I have not yet, but I am sure that I will at some point, this hobby always gets bigger than what you think it will. Heck, I have bought a freezer and a fridge for it in just the past 2 months!

Pol

 

[mew]

I'm going to upgrade to a ten-gallon system because I don't have as much time to brew as I'd like, and with a partigyle system I can get 2 different five-gallon batches in one brew session. It's also cheaper to use a partigyle system than to brew ten gallons of one beer because you can buy two cheap turkey frier set ups instead of a 180 dollar kettle plus a bigger burner.

 

[BierMuncher]

10g is alot of beer. Do you brew because brewing is fun or to have alot of beer, the same beer on hand. I like to brew and I like to change what I'm drinking so 5 g is enough for me. Also every year 5g gets heavier and heavier.

I was making this same argument a few months ago until I hit upon several recipes that were absolutely awesome and big hits with my beer drinking friends/family. Then I couldn't make enough of it fast enough.

Now I do 10-gallon batches, force carb one of the 5-gallon kegs to get it to tap sooner and prime the other with corn sugar and set it aside. With a chesterator that holds 5 cornies and a sanyo upstairs in the kitchen that holds two, I can be in any mood I want and I'm sure to have something that suits me.

I still have my entire 5-gallon setup and an extra propane tank...dare I try a 15 gallon brew day?

If you do go 10-gallons...two words...more cornies.