Noob questions regarding a recipe kit

[Aud]

Hello. I'm a complete noob, with my first brew fermenting as we speak. It will be ready to bottle in a week or two and I'm looking for my next recipe to start at that time. I'm looking at a stout by Atlantic Brew Supply. There are some options I need some guidance with if someone would be so kind. First, the grain options are "no crush," "single crush," or "double crush." I don't intend to crush myself, so I just need to know which of the two crush options I should choose.

Second, should I go with the default dry yeast, or one of the liquid yeast options?

Finally, I took a look at the instructions, which call for boiling the entire 5+ gallons of water and cooling the entire batch, as opposed to boiling 2.5-3 gallons of water and cooling that down and adding water as I put it in the fermenter. I don't have a cooling coil yet. My question is can I alter the instructions to boil only half the water and cool that down before adding more water to the mort? I'm just not certain of safely transferring a pot of 5+ gallons to my sink and then actually cooling such a large volume quickly.

Thank you for bearing with my ignorance. I'm very excited about this new hobby, while also feeling rather intimidated.

In case anyone is wondering, I started with Northern Brewing's Brew Share Enjoy kit.

 

[Kickass]

Crush (very generalized):
No crush- if you have a mill
Single crush- all grain or extract w/ steeping grains
Double crush- all grain brew in a bag BIAB

Yeast: I went through a liquid yeast phase for a while but now prefer dry yeast unless I want something very specific that doesn’t have a dry equivalent. Dry yeast tends to be cheaper, have a higher cell count, and lasts longer. For a stout, I’d happily use US-05 or S-04 one of which, I’m assuming, is the dry default.

Boil volume: boil as close to full vol as us feel comfortable but ultimately, top off to the 5 gal mark and you’ll be within a point or two of expected gravity.

 

[Jag75]

Good post from kick ass. Are you brewing all grain or extract? It seems to me your 1st brew was extract. The kit your looking at going next sounds like all grain

 

[THESULLI]

Hi and welcome! I am relatively new myself but let me see if I can help out a little.

First are you doing all grain or an extract kit with steeping grains? My basic understanding is that a finer crush is meant to help with efficiency. The more sugars and flavors you can extract out of the grain=more alcohol and more flavor. I believe this would be answered more accurately once everyone has a better idea of your methods used.

When it comes to the yeast, I am going to copy/paste a conversation I was just having yesterday... “My basic understanding based on the little reading I have done so far is that the advantage of liquid yeast tends to produce cleaner beer in terms of the taste. The downside being questionable viability which turns into more involvement to prepare the yeast such as doing a starter. The advantage of dry yeast is that it is pretty much always good to go even well after the expiration date and questions of viability are mostly tossed out the window, making the ease of use much higher than that of a liquid yeast. The downside being that the finished product does not tend to come out as clean as if a similar style liquid yeast had been used. Not to say it produces inferior beer... Seems based on what I have read that the final outcome tends to be a little different.”

If you are doing all grain you need to do a full boil. If you are doing an extract kit you can boil less and top off later. This brings up other things that need to be considered however. Your hop utilization may go down if you add all of the extract up front. A lot of people recommend adding roughly half of you malt extract, boil, then add the other half towards the end of the boil. That way you are getting the most out of your hops.

Info from one new guy to another so please take what I say with a grain of salt and get info from the more experienced guys before doing anything.

Have fun!

Anyone with more experience, please correct me if I am wrong! I don’t want to be spewing inaccurate information...

 

[TwistedGray]

Crush (very generalized):
No crush- if you have a mill
Single crush- all grain or extract w/ steeping grains
Double crush- all grain brew in a bag BIAB

Yeast: I went through a liquid yeast phase for a while but now prefer dry yeast unless I want something very specific that doesn’t have a dry equivalent. Dry yeast tends to be cheaper, have a higher cell count, and lasts longer. For a stout, I’d happily use US-05 or S-04 one of which, I’m assuming, is the dry default.

Boil volume: boil as close to full vol as us feel comfortable but ultimately, top off to the 5 gal mark and you’ll be within a point or two of expected gravity.

What this guy says.

Anecdotally, I naturally chill. I do about two dozen pour overs through a BIAB which drops the temp about 20-30 degrees, filters some hop particles, and to some extent infused o2 into the wort. After that, I'll leave it for the evening and check temps in the morning to pitch yeast (assuming it naturally chilled quick enough). I've never had an issue doing it this way.

I used to rapid chill in the sink (etc) with ice water, etc; however, I've noticed no tangible difference.

 

[brewkinger]

Only thing I would add

First are you doing all grain or an extract kit with steeping grains? My basic understanding is that a finer crush is meant to help with efficiency. The more sugars and flavors you can extract out of the grain=more alcohol and more flavor. I believe this would be answered more accurately once everyone has a better idea of your methods used.
When it comes to the yeast, I am going to copy/paste a conversation I was just having yesterday... “My basic understanding based on the little reading I have done so far is that the advantage of liquid yeast tends to produce cleaner beer in terms of the taste. The downside being questionable viability which turns into more involvement to prepare the yeast such as doing a starter. The advantage of dry yeast is that it is pretty much always good to go even well after the expiration date and questions of viability are mostly tossed out the window, making the ease of use much higher than that of a liquid yeast. The downside being that the finished product does not tend to come out as clean as if a similar style liquid yeast had been used. Not to say it produces inferior beer... Seems based on what I have read that the final outcome tends to be a little different.”

If you are doing all grain you need to do a full boil. If you are doing an extract kit you can boil less and top off later. This brings up other things that need to be considered however. Your hop utilization may go down if you add all of the extract up front. A lot of people recommend adding roughly half of you malt extract, boil, then add the other half towards the end of the boil. That way you are getting the most out of your hops.

Anyone with more experience, please correct me if I am wrong! I don’t want to be spewing inaccurate information...

1) Agreed that we need to know more about what type of recipe this is. My gut instinct is that it is partial mash / extract with steeping grains because quite simply the step from extract to all grain requires more equipment and IMHO more experience because there is several more complicated steps involved. Not saying that you could not do it, but it might not be your best choice.

2) I disagree with THESULLI about his highlighted liquid vs dry yeast comments. Both yeast types can and will produce clean beers if that is what they are supposed to do AND you pitch adequate amounts of the yeasts and keep them within the temperature guidelines. As mentioned by others, liquid yeast has a much broader spectrum of choices that elicit certain style specific flavors and characteristics to the final product.

 

[Day-Day]

My basic understanding based on the little reading I have done so far is that the advantage of liquid yeast tends to produce cleaner beer in terms of the taste

^Not sure I really agree with that. Yeast selection, pitch rate, pitching temp, oxygenation, fermentation temp will all have a greater effect on flavor profile and any percieved off flavors than just liquid vs dry yeast. Like brewking mentioned, the main advantage of liquid yeast over dry yeast is there is many more varieties of liquid yeast to choose, dry yeast selection is pretty limited, although that is changing.

 

[THESULLI]

I disagree with THESULLI about his highlighted liquid vs dry yeast comments. Both yeast types can and will produce clean beers if that is what they are supposed to do AND you pitch adequate amounts of the yeasts and keep them within the temperature guidelines. As mentioned by others, liquid yeast has a much broader spectrum of choices that elicit certain style specific flavors and characteristics to the final product.

Very well could have been what I was meant to take from my reading. Take US-05... Great all around yeast that produces awesome beer, but may be kind of a jack of all trades scenario. Where as liquid yeast options give you the ability to pick a very specific outcome due to the variety available? Of course I could be way over thinking it as well. Certainly has been know to happen haha!

Personally, based on my limited number of batches that I have pumped out so far, great beer gets produced either way. I might just not have to ability to differentiate subtle differences between the two.

 

[Aud]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. The recipe I'm looking at is an extract kit:https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/The-Craic-Irish-Stout-Extract-Kit_p_1921.html

 

[THESULLI]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. The recipe I'm looking at is an extract kit:https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/The-Craic-Irish-Stout-Extract-Kit_p_1921.html

Since this is an extract kit, I will just tell you what I have been doing and getting good results with. Usually I bring about 3.5-4 gallon to temp to steep my grains. Then I add roughly half or so of my malt extract and stir until fully dissolved. Then I follow what the recipe calls for for my hop additions. With maybe 5 mins-ish left in the boil, I kill the heat to avoid scorching the reaming malt extract on the bottom of the kettle and add the rest of the extract stirring until dissolved. Proceed with another 5 mins remaining in the boil. Cool the wort, top up to 5 gallons with water I can trust such as pre boiled or distilled water. I have also just used the filtered water from my fridge with no problems. Other may advise against this to help you avoid infection but like I said I have had no problems with it. Pitch the yeast and wait for the magic to happen!

Have fun and keep us updated!

 

[Day-Day]

You certainly can do a partial boil, then top up. A few things to keep in mind are that you may carmelize/darken the wort a little more depending on how much and when you put the extract in, and hop utilization may be different, so your IBU's may be off. If you have the ability to do a full boil, I would, then use your bathtub to cool the wort down. You can fill it up with cold water and ice then throw your boil kettle straight in the tub, it should cool it down pretty quick.

 

[Nate R]

Not sure if this helps, but to your questio re: dry yeast vs. liquid yeast- i think it was said above, but i would argue that temp control (keeping the fermentor in the suggested range of whatever yeast you use) matters way more than the type of yeast you use.

 

[Aud]

Update:

My kettle can't accommodate 5 gallons, so I used the max I could, which was 3 gallons. I ran into my first snag when the muslin grain bag was too small. Like an idiot, I tried to pretend it wasn't a problem and plopped the thing into the kettle. It was such a tight ball that I couldn't tie a typical knot and had to tie two small knots over top of one another to get the bag closed. It sank like a rock to the bottom of the pot. Having at least a small amount of common sense, I began to panic and run through my options. I was on my own, my supplier isn't answering their phone (I think this is typical, not busting on them at all), and I had to brain storm. I remembered some knee high panty hose still in the package these last few years and after a frantic search, found them. Mini celebration ensued, followed by a lot of messiness involving a canning funnel, a spoon and creative swearing. Finally I got the grain into the hose, and restarted the heat. Lovely cloudiness emitted from the hose as the grains became saturated.

The rest of the brew went smoothly, and I transferred my kettle into my deep kitchen sink with salted ice. I was able to get the wort down to 60 degrees in 30 minutes. It was actually a little below 60. I was worried that was too low to pitch my yeast, but another online quest told me it was probably fine.

I added water to reach 5 gallons. I took a hydrometer reading, but am uncertain if it's accurate because of the water added.

In other news, I chilled a bottle from my first batch and popped the cap last night. It was pretty good! I'm more reserved in my praise than my wife, who declared that it was very good.

I also transferred my stout to secondary fermentation. I tasted it, too, and it was, frankly, disgusting. I sure hope a miracle happens during secondary.

Thanks again for all of your advice.

 

[Jag75]

I know nothing about panty hose , but I hope the dye didnt leech into your wort lol. When doing extract kits I would look into Brewersbest kits . Comes with everything, including an adequate size steeping bag . Sometimes ya gotta think quick and on the fly with brewing , as you've found out . When I brewed extract kits I would usually use 3 gallons in my pot and set 2 gallons in my fridge to add after . It helps with the cooling the wort down quicker . Try and steer clear of doing secondaries unless your racking over fruit or storing for long periods of time .

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Update:

My kettle can't accommodate 5 gallons, so I used the max I could, which was 3 gallons. I ran into my first snag when the muslin grain bag was too small. Like an idiot, I tried to pretend it wasn't a problem and plopped the thing into the kettle. It was such a tight ball that I couldn't tie a typical knot and had to tie two small knots over top of one another to get the bag closed. It sank like a rock to the bottom of the pot. Having at least a small amount of common sense, I began to panic and run through my options. I was on my own, my supplier isn't answering their phone (I think this is typical, not busting on them at all), and I had to brain storm. I remembered some knee high panty hose still in the package these last few years and after a frantic search, found them. Mini celebration ensued, followed by a lot of messiness involving a canning funnel, a spoon and creative swearing. Finally I got the grain into the hose, and restarted the heat. Lovely cloudiness emitted from the hose as the grains became saturated.

The rest of the brew went smoothly, and I transferred my kettle into my deep kitchen sink with salted ice. I was able to get the wort down to 60 degrees in 30 minutes. It was actually a little below 60. I was worried that was too low to pitch my yeast, but another online quest told me it was probably fine.

I added water to reach 5 gallons. I took a hydrometer reading, but am uncertain if it's accurate because of the water added.

Thanks again for all of your advice.

Okay, for your future BIAB brews get a bag that is big enough for your kettle. It doesn’t have to be an expensive one at first, but an $8 bag will make your life easier, and the mesh will be fine enough for you to order double crushed grains and not have a mess.

Congrats on getting that chilled. You can brew a no chill method just put the cover on while it’s hot put some spring clips to be sure it stays sealed (I put Saran around the lid edge as well) to keep unwanted little critters out.

Your hydrometer reading would be accurate as long as the water you added was mixed into the wort.

Secondary is not needed for most brews, transferring is only an opportunity for contamination.

Indeed unfinished beer doesn’t taste as good as a finished beer, so here’s hoping for that miracle, or at least improvement.

 

[wsmith1625]

I know a lot has already been said about Dry Vs. Liquid yeast options, but pitch rate is a big difference. Dry yeast has a higher cell count, so you can pitch one pack with little worries. Liquid yeast typically requires a starter to allow the cells to reproduce to the proper pitch rate. Making a starter requires DME, a flask, and stir plate. If you don't want to do a start and still prefer liquid yeast, you can pitch 2 packs.