Newbie thread

[quiggers]

Hi All,

So, I just moved to New England and have a great cider mill down the road. Upon some friends advice I decided to try and make some hard cider.

Bought a carboy, airlock and had them fill it just after Thanksgiving.

Life got in the way and its been in the carboy up until today. Once, I noticed the airlock dried out and was pretty promptly refilled.

I do have what I think is Krausen on the carboy.

So, in bottling it today, I tasted some. Man its tart, like halfway to apple cider vinegar.

I have also read that some drinking apples don't make great hard cider.

So, at a very basic and simple level, how do I confirm my cider is a lost cause ?

I assume its not going to get any better.

Could I have left it too long, or maybe with the airlock drying out, could have introduced oxygen ?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

You didn't mention what yeast you used.
What's a drinking apple?
All of your sugar would ferment out leaving you with something pretty tart. If you want sweeter, you'll have to back-sweeten it with some unfermentable sugar.
I don't think a temporary dry airlock would have messed things up beyond salvage.
I don't think it was too long. I've left cider for 6 - 8 months before bottling.

 

[quiggers]

I didn't use any yeast. The people at the cider mill suggested for a first time, just ferment the straight apple cider. They also mentioned stopping the ferment with camden tablets and then adding a champagne yeast for example and more sugar. But as it was my first time, keep it simple and just do the apple cider.

By drinking apples, I guess I meant I used apples that were pressed for drinking. I did read elsewhere on here that other varieties can yield better ciders.

I also left it in the original carboy, but I am reading more about people racking their cider.

I think a trip to the local library is in order lol. That and maybe a smaller carboy than 5g. Then it's not such an expensive loss lol.

So from what is being said, that level of tartness could be normal.

Does anyone do that, or is it considered unpalatable ?

 

[quiggers]

About when and under what circumstances would it start to turn to vinegar ?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

About when and under what circumstances would it start to turn to vinegar ?

It can take as little as 6 months to make vinegar. You would have needed a lot of contact with ambient air to do this though. Do you have a vinegar mother in there? It'll look like a blob of nasty. That's the bacteria that turns alcohol into vinegar. If not, you might be salvageable.

I'm surprised the apple place just told you to wild ferment. Granted, that's not wrong, apple skins have all the necessary yeast and bacteria to make hard cider. That's just not the beginner approach I would give someone.

Stopping fermentation at the right gravity level will leave residual sweetness. However, speaking from a beginner standpoint. I would instead back-sweeten your first few batches until you get the hang of fermenting.

 

[quiggers]

So, the only thing I have in the carboy is maybe a half inch of pretty uniform sediment at the bottom. I have seen 'mother' in ACV, so I think its not there. I do drink acv as a supplement every now and then, so I do get that faint but similar 'tang'.

I think for now, I will backsweeten. What can go wrong. Its already a loss if i don't try. Obviously I'll use a non fermenting sweetener. And then try another batch where I will use Camden tablets and introduce another yeast.

I appreciate that advice. I have some reading to do lol.

 

[Raptor99]

About when and under what circumstances would it start to turn to vinegar ?

Your cider could turn to vinegar if you have acetobacter present and it is exposed to oxygen. Since you are doing a natural fermentation, you almost certainly have acetobacter in the mix. If there is oxygen available, it will slowly convert alcohol into vinegar.

I do have what I think is Krausen on the carboy.

"Krausen" is foam produced by yeast. You should not have Krausen on your cider after this long (since Nov.). If you have acetobacter growing in your cider, you would see a smooth white film on top of the cider in your carboy. It could also be "flowers of wine," which is not the same thing, but is similar.

Tart does not necessarily mean you have vinegar. Does it smell like vinegar? On my first batch of cider, I thought I had vinegar but it turned out that I just had a tart, young cider.

I like my cider slightly sweetened. Draw off a sample and add a small amount of sugar to see how you like it that way.

 

[quiggers]

Thats great info. There wasn't any white film that I recall on the surface and the lacing on the top of the carboy was old and has left residue.

I almost exclusively use apple cider vinegar at home. Supplement, clean, cook etc. So I'm well used to the smell and taste of apple cider vinegar.

The cider does have vinegary tones to it, but maybe I'm just imagining it.

I think its headed to vinegar and im trying to justify saving what was quite a decent investment of money and time lol.

I ordered erythritol to back sweeten. If I get it to a point of tasting good, can I be confident its safe to drink ?

Also, as I didn't take a specific gravity measurement at the start, is there a way to confirm alcohol content now or not ?

 

[Raptor99]

It sounds like it is probably fine. Even if there is a little bit of vinegar, it won't hurt you. We add vinegar to our salads.

To avoid (further) vinegar formation, you should minimize O2 exposure. If you are not planning to bottle carbonate, you could add some Kmeta before bottling. That will help to remove oxygen from the cider.

If you started with pressed apple juice and didn't add any sugar, your ABV is probably around 5-6%. The exact number would depend on the sugar content of the apples.

 

[quiggers]

Lol. Thats a good point. I drink ACV as a supplement and salad dressing lol.

I bottled it and made sure it was right to the top (repurposed grolsch bottles) and overflowed when capped.

I plan to take a representative quantity and add sweetener and then back sweeten each bottle until happy with the taste.