New to all-grain. Is Blichmann best?

[Golddiggie]

Thanks for the info on the burner. I will look into it. And yes, it would seem like the best idea to just give him a budget and tell him to buy what he wants/needs but if I know my husband, he will become overwhelmed with guilt and buy nothing or, since he is not sure of what he needs either, he will become overwhelmed with stress and that would take all the fun out of it. So really its a lose-lose situation for me That's why I would like to just get him some nice basics that will allow him to start brewing and he can tweak his system as he sees fit as his process develops.

If you already have a pot at/over 5 gallons, then get a kettle that only has a ball valve installed and the large nylon mesh grain bags (get two in case one rips on him). Look at the all grain Brew in a Bag thread (print out parts of it) for the method used there. He can use the bag, mash in the kettle, then sparge, or use the full size, no sparge method.

Look at the directory here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/directories/find-a-supply-shop for a LHBS near you to visit. That would probably be your better bet. Rather than get someone elses (used/old) kettle get him something new and shiny. Even if it doesn't have all the fittings installed (to stay within your budget). Hopefully the LHBS will be a good one that will give you sound advise on what to get him.

 

[Golddiggie]

Well he already bought a cooler 6 mo ago in hopes of doing all grain so at this point I would only need to pay for the parts to convert it which shouldn't be too bad. Perhaps I could just buy him the parts and let him do it so he can enjoy that process. And in the mean time he can try the BIAB.

You can install just a ball valve in the cooler and use that to hold the bag for BIAB. If it's one of the round coolers, you have plenty of options. You don't need to make a manifold in there, you can use a simple 'bazooka screen' in the bottom, connected to the ball valve. I did that for a mash tun (my brew-buddy still uses it). Won't cost much AND is easy to do (IMO, easier than making a manifold).

PM me and I'll send you links for the parts you can get to do the cooler conversion.

 

[Milan37]

I suggest:

Buy one of those Bayou Classic SS pots from Amazon--the 44 quart one is good.

Track down the guys who make BIAB bags and buy one of those.

Buy a turkey-fryer burner--look for one that can connect to your grill line. If you can't find one, buy one that uses a propane tank. It's a minor inconvenience to have propane tanks around, nothing compared to trying full boils on a stovetop.

Take the money you have left over (there should be some) and get him a gift card at Northern Brewer or Midwest and let him decide how to fill out his setup. If he's gone this long without a chiller, he can make-do without one or use the gift card toward it if that's what he really wants.

If it turns out he really wanted a mash tun, tell him the jerks on HomebrewTalk steered you wrong, and he at least has the start of a decent setup that can be added onto as he grows into all-grain. Point him here to get full-on schooling on BIAB brewing, which is all-grain and every bit as good as using a mash tun.

Just don't over-think this. Unless he's told you exactly what he wants, you can't expect yourself to be perfect on this. You've already put a lot of effort into this, and he should be touched by how much you care.

 

[rickert76]

You can install just a ball valve in the cooler and use that to hold the bag for BIAB. If it's one of the round coolers, you have plenty of options. You don't need to make a manifold in there, you can use a simple 'bazooka screen' in the bottom, connected to the ball valve. I did that for a mash tun (my brew-buddy still uses it). Won't cost much AND is easy to do (IMO, easier than making a manifold).

PM me and I'll send you links for the parts you can get to do the cooler conversion.

Thanks! It is a round cooler, the kind from Home Depot. I read a tutorial using a mesh water supply line with the rubber tubing removed. Is your set up different? I will send you a PM. Thanks!

 

[Epimetheus]

rickert76, I have never regretted the money spent for quality tools.

If you have the cash and the Blichman is available, then get it. It will be a pinch, but it will just feel right every time it is used. No fiddle-farting around with almost good equip, that tool will do the job dependably and conveniently. The integral thermometer, depressed bottom, bazooka screen, and quality valve are little bits that really make a difference. The sight glass is handy for instantly checking volume.

Sometimes I simply do not have the cash, or the tool will be a one-time and done, then I get Harbor Freight quality. Right now I do not have the cash for a Blichmann, so I am using less expensive tools.

Next tool is a cooler (get it) and a mash tun. The tun can be a rectangular picnic cooler or a tall Gatorade type. Pick one that has space for a drain or spigot. Some commercial ones add a metal valve and charge $100 plus shipping. You can get a cooler for $30 locally and a valve for $30.

--edit--
as stated, if you do brew in a bag, it is simpler. Forget the mash tun. Get a $5 voile window panel from Walmart and sew a bag large enough to fit outside the pot, then use it inside the pot. The big bag gives the mash lots of room to wander around and increases efficiency.

 

[rickert76]

I suggest:

Buy one of those Bayou Classic SS pots from Amazon--the 44 quart one is good.

Track down the guys who make BIAB bags and buy one of those.

Buy a turkey-fryer burner--look for one that can connect to your grill line. If you can't find one, buy one that uses a propane tank. It's a minor inconvenience to have propane tanks around, nothing compared to trying full boils on a stovetop.

Take the money you have left over (there should be some) and get him a gift card at Northern Brewer or Midwest and let him decide how to fill out his setup. If he's gone this long without a chiller, he can make-do without one or use the gift card toward it if that's what he really wants.

If it turns out he really wanted a mash tun, tell him the jerks on HomebrewTalk steered you wrong, and he at least has the start of a decent setup that can be added onto as he grows into all-grain. Point him here to get full-on schooling on BIAB brewing, which is all-grain and every bit as good as using a mash tun.

Just don't over-think this. Unless he's told you exactly what he wants, you can't expect yourself to be perfect on this. You've already put a lot of effort into this, and he should be touched by how much you care.

Wow! Thanks! That makes me feel a lot better about this. I am usually guilty of over thinking things, especially when it comes to spending money! I will definately be hooking him up with this site once I give him his present. He may already be on it...in that case, this won't be much of a surprise anymore. And I think your idea of letting him fill in what he needs is a great one. I really have no idea..I am totally winging it. You are all so very helpful

 

[Epimetheus]

And the copper coil immersion Chiller, I beleive the one I can buy used is a 20' copper coil. Is the 50' better or does it make much difference on a 5 gal batch? Thanks for all your help!

In my small experience, one 20 ft coil is not quite enough for 5 gal unless you have a pre-cooler coil in an ice bath.

Instead of 1 50 ft coil, consider 2 20 ft coils.
two 20 ft coils are more efficient and faster than one 50 ft coil.
The water gets hotter as it moves through the tubes.
The hotter it gets, the less temp diff between the water and wort, and the less heat removed.
The water in each 20 ft coil does not heat up as much as the longer 50 ft tube
Two tubes doubles the flow.
They carry away more than 2x the heat of a 50 ft coil.

Also, search the forums for "no-chill" brewing. Some people report success just covering the wort and letting it cool down for 24 hours. i do not have experience in this, I am suggesting another possibility.

 

[TopherM]

I can't believe that this gal wants to buy her man an awesome Blichmann kettle, and 9 out of every 10 posters in this thread are trying to talk her out of it!

If she has the money, and wants her man to have an awesome pot, she should get the pot! This is a present, not her own personal brewing investment!

Let's me honest, if your rich uncle buys you a Blichmann kettle for Xmas, are you going to return it and get a Bayou Classic and drill a weldless bulkhead/ball valve? F that. Enjoy the Blichmann!!

GET THE MAN THE BLICHMANN!!! HE'LL APPRECIATE THE S**T OUT OF IT!!!

 

[jerrodm]

If SWMBO was choosing between spending $250 on a Blichmann and spending $250 on a regular SS kettle plus other equipt, I'd much rather she did that--I'd take the extra $$ and buy a plate chiller or something else that I didn't have. (Just in case you're reading this, honey!)

 

[metanoia]

(Just in case you're reading this, honey!)

She's not. Remember, they only use telepathy to read our minds. I mean, at least that's what I assume since they expect the same from us.

*hides from any women in the area*

 

[LandoLincoln]

Blichmann kettles don't [normally] come with a false bottom. They offer the FB at an additional charge (not cheap either). Also, IMO/IME, a thermometer on a kettle is almost useless. Same with a mash tun and HLT. I don't have them installed (anymore) in my keggle, mash tun, and won't be installing it in my new HLT I'm making.

This is a used kettle we're talking about here, so we don't know what the previous owner had ordered with his pot. He might have gone all out on it.

A thermometer on a kettle is handy if you're recirculating your wort after boiling to get it down to pitching temps. You can live without it, sure, but it's a nice feature.

 

[Golddiggie]

This is a used kettle we're talking about here, so we don't know what the previous owner had ordered with his pot. He might have gone all out on it.

A thermometer on a kettle is handy if you're recirculating your wort after boiling to get it down to pitching temps. You can live without it, sure, but it's a nice feature.

For a BK, a false bottom is pretty much pointless, IME. Plus, at $250, I seriously doubt it includes a false bottom.

As for the thermometer, I have a much better way to get my temperatures. Far more flexible and reliable too. IMO, in a BK, it's very much a bling thing and can be easily done without.

 

[metanoia]

For a BK, a false bottom is pretty much pointless, IME. Plus, at $250, I seriously doubt it includes a false bottom.

As for the thermometer, I have a much better way to get my temperatures. Far more flexible and reliable too. IMO, in a BK, it's very much a bling thing and can be easily done without.

Would a false bottom in a BK help keep the hot/cold break and other junk out when transferring to fermenter? Never though of that, but I'm still just using my in-laws' old turkey fryer right now.

 

[Backporchbrewery]

For that price, this is what you want. High quality, comes with everything but a sight glass. And the 16gal capacity is enough to do 5 or 10 gal batches.

Bayou Classic 16gal Brew kettle with thermometer, kettle screen, valve, false bottom

 

[LandoLincoln]

For a BK, a false bottom is pretty much pointless, IME. Plus, at $250, I seriously doubt it includes a false bottom.

As for the thermometer, I have a much better way to get my temperatures. Far more flexible and reliable too. IMO, in a BK, it's very much a bling thing and can be easily done without.

We don't know if the previous owner was using the pot as a BK or a mash tun. The previous owner might be in the "more money than brains" crowd and just bought a fully-equipped pot not even knowing what they were doing.

Another possibility is that the current seller is divorcing the previous owner of said pot, and the current seller is just selling it out of spite and not really knowing (or caring) about the value of the pot in question.

 

[Milan37]

I can't believe that this gal wants to buy her man an awesome Blichmann kettle, and 9 out of every 10 posters in this thread are trying to talk her out of it!

If she has the money, and wants her man to have an awesome pot, she should get the pot! This is a present, not her own personal brewing investment!

Let's me honest, if your rich uncle buys you a Blichmann kettle for Xmas, are you going to return it and get a Bayou Classic and drill a weldless bulkhead/ball valve? F that. Enjoy the Blichmann!!

GET THE MAN THE BLICHMANN!!! HE'LL APPRECIATE THE S**T OUT OF IT!!!

Don't assume everyone thinks like you. A Blichmann would do nothing for me. I care about quality but I couldn't care less about bling. Now if a Blichmann made better beer, that would be something.

 

[rickert76]

We don't know if the previous owner was using the pot as a BK or a mash tun. The previous owner might be in the "more money than brains" crowd and just bought a fully-equipped pot not even knowing what they were doing.

Another possibility is that the current seller is divorcing the previous owner of said pot, and the current seller is just selling it out of spite and not really knowing (or caring) about the value of the pot in question.

This is the item in question http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/3397633059.html
Take a look and tell me if its in good shape

 

[Golddiggie]

Would a false bottom in a BK help keep the hot/cold break and other junk out when transferring to fermenter? Never though of that, but I'm still just using my in-laws' old turkey fryer right now.

You don't need to keep the hot/cold break out of the fermenting vessel. I don't do anything to keep it out and still get super clear brews. I use a hop spider to keep the extra matter out of my plate chiller, but that's all.

 

[Golddiggie]

This is the item in question http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/3397633059.html
Take a look and tell me if its in good shape

Looks like it's in good condition, as I would expect from most home brewers. No pictures of the inside, so no way to know if it has a false bottom. But, since those run close to $75+, I suspect it's without one.

 

[user 125772]

IMO , $50 for a used chiller is no deal ...I have one of these http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/shirron-plate-chiller.html ...$99...and it works awesome even for 10 gallon batches .

As you're discovering, the boil kettle is ...complicated. The Blichmann is a quality kettle and will last a lifetime. What you're looking at on the craiglist ad is a good deal if it's outfitted as shown in the pics.

 

[rickert76]

Looks like it's in good condition, as I would expect from most home brewers. No pictures of the inside, so no way to know if it has a false bottom. But, since those run close to $75+, I suspect it's without one.

Pretty sure no false bottom. He said it came with what they originally come with. So no extras there.

I attached pics of the wort chiller he is selling for $50. Is it decent or am I better off buying a new one or a 50' one?

 

[LandoLincoln]

This is the item in question http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/3397633059.html
Take a look and tell me if its in good shape

It looks like they're doing the BIAB process with this pot, so my guess would be that they don't have a false bottom.

Even so, this is a good price for a 10 gallon SS pot with a steel lid, sight glass, spigot and adjustable-angle thermometer. And it's an even better price for a Blichmann.

If I was a long-time brewer that only did partial-boil extract batches and my wife/girlfriend got me this for Christmas, I think I'd weep with joy after I picked my jaw up off of the floor.

All he needs to do all-grain with this pot is a fine-mesh bag (as shown in the picture). He might have some problems getting up to boiling on the stove, but a $50 turkey fryer and a propane tank would fix that.

 

[rickert76]

IMO , $50 for a used chiller is no deal ...I have one of these http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/shirron-plate-chiller.html ...$99...and it works awesome even for 10 gallon batches .

As you're discovering, the boil kettle is ...complicated. The Blichmann is a quality kettle and will last a lifetime

I thought $50 was a bit much too. And I am finding that the whole brewing process is...complicated. Might be in over my head here.

Th local home brew store currently only has 1 ten gal pot and its the Blichmann for $329. So of course they are an advocate of the Blichmann.

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO , $50 for a used chiller is no deal ...I have one of these http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/shirron-plate-chiller.html ...$99...and it works awesome even for 10 gallon batches .

As you're discovering, the boil kettle is ...complicated. The Blichmann is a quality kettle and will last a lifetime. What you're looking at on the craiglist ad is a good deal if it's outfitted as shown in the pics.

For the same price, you can get a 20 plate from Duda Diesel set up the same way... So double the plate count for the same money. Check out the rest of their beer wort chilling offerings...

 

[chickypad]

Agree with the others, don't shell out 50$ for that chiller. It's too short and I don't like the way that hose fitting seems like it would be down in the middle of the wort.

I applaud your efforts in all this, but as was mentioned it's tricky because there are so many ways to go and every brewer will have their own preferences. You say he already bought a cooler for a mash tun so maybe going with fittings for that would be safest, then let him have input on what kind/size of pot and chiller he wants.

Jay at NorCal Brewing is on this forum and does really good work, his site is here. I would recommend considering one of his false bottoms for the cooler, and if you call or email him he can help you with what you need. I've ordered from him before and he was really helpful fitting things.

 

[dbrewski]

Pretty sure no false bottom. He said it came with what they originally come with. So no extras there.

I attached pics of the wort chiller he is selling for $50. Is it decent or am I better off buying a new one or a 50' one?

The chiller shown here looks like 1/2" copper tubing, which is nicer than the 3/8" they are typically made of. I made my own with about 40 feet of 1/2". The copper was maybe $50 and you'd have twice the cooling but you'd have to make it yourself. There is no way I would pay $50 for that, offer him $30 tops and only that because it would be convenient not to make it.

I agree with others that have said go with the Blichmann. Here is my thought (I do not own Blichmann, I like making my own stuff). It is the BMW of brewing equipment, and that is a great present to get, it has "wow" factor. No one here would return a Blichmann kettle because they like putting things together themselves as others have pointed out.

So that is my recommendation. Now I will completely confuse the issue by pointing out that I bought this kettle, it is 9 gallons with two welds for $79, all you have to do is add a thermo up top and a stainless valve. I am thinking of getting rid of it and going with their 15 gallon two weld for $119. These kettles are absolutely fine, if you feel like going the route of piecing equipment together.

Bargain stainless valve here. You can also get the hose barb that screws into the end of it.

Low cost but fairly accurate thermo with 6" stem here.

 

[rickert76]

For the same price, you can get a 20 plate from Duda Diesel set up the same way... So double the plate count for the same money. Check out the rest of their beer wort chilling offerings...

So are these plate chillers better than the immersion chillers? If I puchase on of these 20 plate chillers, do I need anything to go with it other than regular garden hoses? And can they be hooked up to a sink faucet if he is brewing inside?

 

[metanoia]

So are these plate chillers better than the immersion chillers?

Protip: Never use the word "better" around here.

Both have their pros and cons, but plate chillers are typically seen as a step up from immersion chillers. Still, you don't have to clean out the inside of an immersion chiller, which is nice. A plate chiller would require some kind of pump to get the wort from the kettle to the chiller, but the hose end should be fine as long as you hook it up to a pressurized water source (i.e. outside hose faucet).

 

[dbrewski]

The immersion chiller is the easiest, least fussy way for a newbie IMO.

 

[Golddiggie]

So are these plate chillers better than the immersion chillers? If I puchase on of these 20 plate chillers, do I need anything to go with it other than regular garden hoses? And can they be hooked up to a sink faucet if he is brewing inside?

With my setup, a plate chiller is best. As already pointed out, what's best for me may not be best/good for another brewer. In order to recirculate the boiling wort (best way to sanitize a plate chiller, most will agree) does require a pump (either March or Chugger) and some more silicone hose/tubing.

You can always upgrade the chiller to another type if/when it doesn't do a good enough job. I would advise having at least a 5/8" ID garden hose on the chill water feed on whatever you get. 1/2" could be ok, but 5/8" is better.

BTW, depending on how the IC is setup, you might need to do some work to connect the cold water to it.

Personally, I'd pass on the chiller in that picture. With the hose connections as they are set, it's a high risk for leaking into the wort being chilled. NOT a good thing by any stretch. Most, decent, IC's are made so that the water connections are outside the kettle, so that if/when they leak it drips onto the ground, not into the wort.