neophyte Cherry Saison recipe help

[TimFarAway]

Now that I have tasted my 1st brew two days ago, and am fermenting the 2nd, I must be ready to craft my own recipe. Or not... but SWMBO is going to be out of town for a weekend and I want to try something interesting. So... a Cherry Saison it is. Here is my plan, PLEASE critique and advise ingredients and method, so I at least end up with something drinkable. Aiming for 2.5 gallons into the fermenter.


5lbs Belgian Pale Ale
0.5 Lbs Belgian Cara 20
0.5 Lbs Belgian Biscuit
0.75 oz Saaz Hops
0.25 Tettnanger Hops
WyYeast Belgian Saison 3724

Calculator, says... OG 1.063, FG 1.014, ABV 6.44, IBU 23.4, SRM 9.91 (but that is not counting for inexperienced brewer.)


Using BIAB method... Heat 7.5qts (1.25/lb grain) to 160* F, mash in double milled grains. Stabilize temp at 152-154 for 60 minutes. Remove grain bag & sparge/rinse with 5.5 qts at 170* F. This should give me 3 gallons in the pot, pre-boil. Boil. Add 0.75 oz Saaz at 60 minutes for bitterness, and 0.25oz Tettnanger at 10 for aroma. Hoping my boil-off won't be much more than 1/2 gallon. Chilling down to 70* F with the big pot in my sink w/ icy water shouldn't take more than 30 minutes. Pour into the fermenter, take OG reading, pitch the activated WyYeast smack pack. Stick on the airlock, and move to someplace with temps steadily above 70* F (for that type of yeast). Wait patiently for 3 weeks. Rack into bottling bucket, with 2.5oz priming sugar and 1 oz Cherry Extract (to taste, add more as needed). Bottle, wait 2 more agonizing weeks and chill 1 day before drinking.

A bunch of noob questions for you patient mentors. 1- when do I smack the smack pack? 2- how much fresh cherries soaked in vodka would I need to add to a 2ndary fermenter to make it at least noticibly cherry flavored vs. the extract in the bottling bucket? 3- Am I way off on the boil-off amount? 4- If so, should I up the grainbill & corresponding water? 5- could I add one vanilla bean to a 2ndary, or would that be too many flavors for a Saison? Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[h-bar]

Smack pack - it should say on the package, but I believe you should smack it about 3 or 4 hours before.

As for the cherries, I recommend buying frozen pitted cherries, allowing them to thaw, and then adding them to the fermenter. I've done the same with raspberries and had great results. Frozen cherries will have already been sterilized, plus freezing ruptures more cells allowing flavor compounds to escape. I'd go about a pound per gallon or more for noticeable flavor.

Boil off - I usually end up boiling off about 1.5 gallons. I wont comment on the rest of your process as I don't do the BIAB method.

I tried adding a vanilla bean to fruit beer before, and the flavor was completely drowned out. However, you could still give it a shot.

 

[RM-MN]

BIAB was originally meant for a full volume mash, that is, put the full volume of water in and heat it to strike temp, then put the bag in the pot and stir the grains in. With that much water, you won't lose temperature very fast and the thin mash is a little more efficient at converting starches. The pot I like to use is a little small for the full volume of water plus the grains so I hold back a quart or 2 and use that to sparge with when I pull the bag to get to my full pre-boil volume. I sparge with cold water. It works fine for rinsing out the sugars and is easier for me, plus that cools the bag of grains a bit so it it easier to squeeze out the last few drops.

If your grains are milled fine, you can shorten the mash period. I've done a bunch of 30 minute mashes and they work fine. My grain may be milled finer than yours but I've done 3 batches with a 10 minute mash and even that gives me full conversion.

I'm pretty careful with my heat so I don't boil off nearly as much as H-bar, more like .5 gallon. That seems to be plenty as the well modified grains don't tend to produce DMS.

Don't be surprised if you miss your OG. It happened to me on several batches. Yes, overshot it by quite a bit. It may not happen to you but it wouldn't surprise me if your OG happened to turn out at 1.075 or even a bit higher if you use nearly full volume for your mash. If you have time, you might make better beer is you used a starter on this instead of just one smack pack, or just use 2 smack packs.

 

[TimFarAway]

So, maybe I should mash with 12 quarts, rinse with 2 cold, then squeeze? That should give me enough to account for boil-off. Thanks. How do I judge when my conversion is done? A 10 or even 30 minute mash sounds great. I think my LHBS will grind finer if I ask.

 

[RM-MN]

So, maybe I should mash with 12 quarts, rinse with 2 cold, then squeeze? That should give me enough to account for boil-off. Thanks. How do I judge when my conversion is done? A 10 or even 30 minute mash sounds great. I think my LHBS will grind finer if I ask.

There are two ways to tell if your starches converted. The quickest way but less precise is to look at the wort. Wort with starches is cloudy but when all the starches are converted the wort becomes clear.

The other way is with iodine. Place a drop or 2 of iodine on a white plate or something similar. Place a drop of wort next to it and then mix. If there is starch the drops will turn blue or purple. If there is no change the starch is converted.

One thing to consider, there are 2 enzymes that work to break down the starch and one works faster than the other so when your iodine test is negative, the slower enzyme may not be done yet. Alpha amylase is the fast one and makes long chain sugars that are not fermentable (or not very fermentable) while the slower one, beta amylase, makes very fermentable short chain sugars. Beta works best at low mash temps, Alpha at the high end. Most of the time we mash in the middle to get somewhat fermentable wort that still has some maltiness to it.