Need Your Feedback on New Stand Mods

[Yambor44]

I recently had this SS stand built. The footprint is a little big where the 10 gallon pots sit. I got with my fabricator and we came up with the idea to add a Stainless "table top" with a hole for the burners and some vents to let the heat escape.

Here are some pictures of the stand and how the pots sit as well as my drawing of what I have in mind as far as the top goes.

What I would like to know is what are your thoughts as far as any negatives ( or +'s ) by doing it this way?

I was thinking that leaving the front solid would eliminate the use of those small square stainless pieces that Blichmann sends to block the heat from the valve and the brewmometer.

Stand




The piece Blichmann sends as a heat guard


The problem


My million dollar blue print


So what do you think? Is this enough area to cutout? Too much along the sides of the pot? Not enough?

Thanks for any advice. Would like to get this done this week.

 

[willynilly]

I think it looks good. Anyone ever take a temp. of the top of one of these stands with the burners running? How hot does that get??

 

[Yambor44]

I posted this on the 10 tip Jet Burner Topic but thought I would add my findings here as well -

Hmmm. Just gave it a test with the 10 gallon Blichmann pot.

Took 47 minutes to reach my average strike temp of 165*
Took a total of 66 minutes to reach 190*
Total of 76 minutes to hit 200*
and 92 minutes to reach boil.

I'm so discouraged. I could bring 15 gallons of water to a boil with my old ghetto system and it takes over an hour and a half to boil 8 gallons???

I noticed that the sound of the burner was about half of what it was when the pot was not on the stand. Double checked this after the test was over and sure enough, loud and kicking with no pot on. I also checked the regulator and screwed the adjustment screw all the in to close. No change and the flame kept right on burning.

What gives?



This about as radical as the boil got 15 minutes after reaching the boiling point.




This handle was so hot you couldn't leave your hand on it.


Wind guard all blued out now. Should it be further down completely covering the burner?



What gives? It's like it's too hot but not boiling the water as quickly and vigorously as the heat it produces would indicate.

 

[willynilly]

76 minutes to 200F in 8 gallons?

140F rise in 8 gallons equals 9380 BTUs

Meaning that 9380 BTUs are being transferred in 76 minutes

That is only 7400 BTU/HR

Something is amiss... this is not right

 

[ajwillys]

Sounds like your burners aren't getting enough air, especially since they are much louder when you take the pot off. You need to open it up a bit to let more air in. Are the wind guards removable? If so, try it without them. If its better, then try drilling some holes in them to see if that helps.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Looks to me like the kettle is choking the 'outflow' of air. The gaps between the wind guard and kettle look to be too small and much of the heat is just heating up your stand.

Maybe as a test, if you have something you could place between the stand and the pot that will lift the pot off the stand a little bit (and take the heat of course), then try it.

Many propane burners have a 'notch' in the wind shield such that the intake nozzle can go through the slot (i.e. putting the burner up 'inside' the wind shield instead of below it like yours). That amount of blueing plus the hot handle of the stand sure implies heating the stand more than the kettle.

That thing looks sweet though, I'll be watching your progress. I'd have prob snatched your old stand if it weren't 'nozzled' for NG.

 

[Yambor44]

I think you guys are dead on. Sometimes you can't see the forrest for the trees. My challenge now will be to build a top that will support the kegs AND allow for air flow. Holes in the wind guard toward the top should be a good improvement. I do have two pieces of the SS tubing left that I could raise the pot up and give it another go. However, my burners all appear to be stripped out where the gas pipe attaches. I have an email into the company I bought them from so hopefully I will hear from them today and can get some replacements.

Thanks for chiming in. I feel better now.

 

[willynilly]

The enemy of gas burners is that they are pitching out a lot of BTUs, and your kettle is a small area just sitting there receiving whatever comes its way before the force of the gasses pushes the heat out to your stand and ambient.

The MORE surface area on the pot you can heat and the LONGER you can keep the heat in contact with it, the better.

I want to build a heat jacket for a kettle to run some tests... use it on a turkey fryer burner and have the jacket extend up the sides of the kettle, have it vented at the top so that the hot gasses can flow, but the jacket would concentrate the heat at the kettle walls and increase the contact time with each BTU that is racing past the kettle.

Test it without the jacket, and with the jacket... I bet there would be a marked difference.

 

[willynilly]

Yambor44, I threw this into the conversation with Chris that you were having too...

...do you have a way to measure the amount of gas going through the burner. If you can verify the INput, it will help you to better understand what is happening on the OUTput.

I just ran the numbers for my DigiBrew to get 8 gallons to boiling and it is right at 20 minutes with electric (60F-Boil)

It is easier to calculate the BTUs with electric obviously, but this is why if you have a way to measure the gas INput and then look at the output in terms of BTUs to transferred to the kettle, you may be able to get a clearer picture of what is happening. What BTU is the burner rated at with 10 tips?

I think there is a valid point with the stand causing too much blockage and too severely isolating the heat from the burner. Id be interested in what the rate of gas IINput is to the burner, per hour, during the next test, if that is poss.

 

[Yambor44]

Now we are getting beyond my comprehension (that didn't take long, did it? ). Is there a way that I can measure it or will I need a lumber or HVAC person?

The burners themselves are rated at 70,000 BTU's. As I said in CK's thread, I do have that regulator on it and it doesn't seem to regulate at all. Screw it all the way in and it keeps right on burning at what appears to be no change. Maybe I should take that off too. Never used one before.

 

[willynilly]

Now we are getting beyond my comprehension (that didn't take long, did it? ). Is there a way that I can measure it or will I need a lumber or HVAC person?

The burners themselves are rated at 70,000 BTU's. As I said in CK's thread, I do have that regulator on it and it doesn't seem to regulate at all. Screw it all the way in and it keeps right on burning at what appears to be no change. Maybe I should take that off too. Never used one before.

NG? Check your meter before a 60 minute burn, then check again, get the qty. gas used, then you can determine the BTU output of the burner to see if it is even burning properly.

 

[Yambor44]

Going back to the welder today. Going to make the wind guards 8 1/2" square and bring it level with the top to help support the pot. Will also add the SS Tube (blue) for the wind guard to attach to, add support for the pot, and keep the wind guard off of the stand to allow air flow. Will add some vent holes at the top of the wind guard to allow heat to escape from the sides and back. The front will be covered with stainless to take the place of having to add the Blichmann heat shield(s) in the front of the pot. This should solve my choking problem and disperse the heat out from under the pot which should keep the stand from heating up so much.

Adding the yellow, blue and orange pieces.


End view

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'm not so keen on those holes but I don't know what I'm talking about. I would look at as many propane/NG burners as possible and steal ideas from them. If none of them have holes like that...there's probably a reason.

It may work perfectly but I'd hate to see you have more work done and still not have it work right.

 

[Yambor44]

I know Lonnies and Chris' don't have guards at all but brewing outside I have to have them.

 

[Yambor44]

I'm not so keen on those holes but I don't know what I'm talking about. I would look at as many propane/NG burners as possible and steal ideas from them. If none of them have holes like that...there's probably a reason.

It may work perfectly but I'd hate to see you have more work done and still not have it work right.

Went ahead and told the welder to remove the guards and leave them off for the time being. He will add 2" SS tubing from each side of the burner area. This should give me 8" between each on front to back and side to side. Then I will test it again and see what my numbers are.

If we end up adding the wind guards later, they will be dropped down to leave at least 3 inches of gap at the top.

 

[tomroeder]

And if you end up putting them back on, you could just drill a bunch of holes (perforate) them, that could be pretty effective as well. Did you take the regulator out of line?

 

[Yambor44]

And if you end up putting them back on, you could just drill a bunch of holes (perforate) them, that could be pretty effective as well. Did you take the regulator out of line?

Yeah, see drawing above. I was going to do that to begin with but went ahead with one change at a time idea. I have not removed the regulator. I have a PM into Chris about it but no reply yet. I don't think he's been on since the 1st. I'll leave the regulator on without the shields and then go from there as far as removing it. If I do remove it I will do that then test it, then raise burners if needed etc one thing at a time.

 

[chrisknight]

Just FYI. I can boil 8 gallons very quickly. I don't know exactly but I'll test it. 20 minutes sounds right, i think. ...and I have to turn it down after the boil starts.

Something has to be wrong with that regulator or they shipped you the wrong one. What is the part # on the unit?

When I turn the screw all the way in, my flames go out.

PM sent.

 

[Yambor44]

Chris, thanks for the PM. I just replied.

The stand is at the welders but when I get it back I will check the numbers.

 

[Yambor44]

Just FYI. I can boil 8 gallons very quickly. I don't know exactly but I'll test it. 20 minutes sounds right, i think. ...and I have to turn it down after the boil starts.

Something has to be wrong with that regulator or they shipped you the wrong one. What is the part # on the unit?

When I turn the screw all the way in, my flames go out.

PM sent.

I did call to verify that this regulator is for propane and NG. I do remember the numbers on top were like *325-4???* or something like that. It is the 325 series and it looks exactly like yours so???

 

[tomroeder]

I know when I plumbed in my gas valves with build in regulators, I had to make sure the natural gas sized orifice was installed, because my valves can be used to natural gas and propane, as long as you install the appropriate orifice. Did anything like this come with your regulator?

 

[Yambor44]

I know when I plumbed in my gas valves with build in regulators, I had to make sure the natural gas sized orifice was installed, because my valves can be used to natural gas and propane, as long as you install the appropriate orifice. Did anything like this come with your regulator?

Hmmm. Not that I recall. It was in a clear bag with a green instruction sheet. Maybe Chris can elaborate on this.

When I called the plumbing place the girl said it was for both but didn't ask if I put in a NG orifice. I would ASS-U-ME that if I was having trouble with it working properly and questioning if the unit was the right one, that would have been the 1st question if it indeed did have one. But hey, all the planets seem to aligning against me on this build so who knows!

 

[tomroeder]

there does seem to be an abundance of bad luck here.....maybe you should buy a lotto ticket!!!

 

[chrisknight]

Hmmm. Not that I recall. It was in a clear bag with a green instruction sheet. Maybe Chris can elaborate on this.

When I called the plumbing place the girl said it was for both but didn't ask if I put in a NG orifice. I would ASS-U-ME that if I was having trouble with it working properly and questioning if the unit was the right one, that would have been the 1st question if it indeed did have one. But hey, all the planets seem to aligning against me on this build so who knows!

Maybe I'm remembering wrong. I know for a fact that as I cranked it toward close, the flames got smaller. In my head I remember thinking that I didn't want to kill the flame so I cranked it the other way.

There was no other orifice or any other parts in the bag. Your working with NG lines supplied from a company like Columbia gas right? You've got a regulator on the side of you're house?

 

[Yambor44]

...Your working with NG lines supplied from a company like Columbia gas right? You've got a regulator on the side of you're house?

Yes on both.

 

[Yambor44]

Something has to be wrong with that regulator or they shipped you the wrong one. What is the part # on the unit?



PM sent.

These are the numbers my welder called me with:
325-5A Max 10 psi
1004 191
PO 4" to 12" ??
7.0??

 

[tomroeder]

This may be a really dumb question, but does that slotted screw on top of your regulator that you were turning removable? Is that just a cover for the regulator adjustment? The regulator parts of my auto gas valves were like that...have you tried unscrewing it all the way? Does it come out?

 

[Yambor44]

That's actually a valid question. It does come out (the blue piece) then the set screw is down in that tube that it covers.

 

[tomroeder]

I see...so if that screw under there is what you were turning and there was no change, you must have a junk regulator. I think I would still replace it with a valve just to experiment. Does Murphy from Murphy's law live in your town or what?!?!?

 

[Yambor44]

LOL. Probably just me holding my tongue wrong or something. I'm going to try it with the regulator and without the wind guards first. If it is defective, I will then try it without the regulator and if the burners are fine that way, return it for a refund if they'll let me.