Need Suggestions for a new 55 gallon system

[stevehaun]

Just for a real world example, My BK is a 55 gallon SS drum. I make either 30 or 35 gallon batches. I heat all my water in the BK. I have two 4500 watt elements in the BK. To heat 50 gallons of water from 50 to 160, it takes me about 100 min. The BK is not insulated. When sparging, I turn on the elements as soon as they are covered by wort. I am nearly to a boil by the time the sparge is completed. During the boil, I run the elements on 85% power for a 30 gallon batch and 90% power for a 35 gallon batch. 11,000 watts would clearly be better than 9000 but my GFI breaker is only 50 amps. I think you are on the right track using a minimum of 11,000 watts in the BK, although I think 16,500 watts would make for a shorter brewday.

 

[Boar Beer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/squam-lakes-brewery-pictures-144764/index2.html


check this thread out its for a 55 gallon system
just got our fed and state approval last week
We have brewed several trial lots using the final set up

My feeling is to go with a Blichmann fermentor (1 barrel) system and then you avoid all the cooling problems of the bigger fermentors

We use the BK to heat the mash water and then fill one of the 44 gallon white rubermade buckets. We runj the same as stevenhaun and sparge into the brew kettle and things are at a boil about the same time the sparge is over.

We are adding two more fermentors with wheels this time and would be able to role them into a cooler if thats required.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

This is SO tagged. I want to do something similar to the OP, someday.

Be sure to take pics of the 55g builds.

 

[Brewmoor]

I just ordered the Drums. I have 4 of them shipping tomorrow. I am going to order the fitting this weekend too. I am going to keep this build simple. Nothing too fancy as far as electronics and flow panels. I want more flexibility with this system then I have on my personal system.

I will post pictures along the way on this build. I can't wait to get started.

 

[NoNothing]

I just ordered the Drums. I have 4 of them shipping tomorrow. I am going to order the fitting this weekend too. I am going to keep this build simple. Nothing too fancy as far as electronics and flow panels. I want more flexibility with this system then I have on my personal system.

I will post pictures along the way on this build. I can't wait to get started.

Awesome, congrats!

Cant wait to see some pictures

 

[ajwillys]

Hey, sounds like you are doing a similar setup to what we're trying to start here. 55 gallon drum brewhouse as a sort of start up brewery while still keeping the day job.

kladue,
I'm curious what makes you say that cooling with ambient air will not work at this size? Do you have working experience of this? Of course I know that the internal temp of the fermenting beer will be higher than ambient, but that is easy to correct. We plan on monitoring the internal temp of the beer and using that as a guideline for selecting the ambient temps. We will have box fans all around to make sure the temps are consistent. Are you saying this will not work?

 

[Ranger9913]

I am not an expert on cooling liquids but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to accurately control 100 gallon fermenters with ambient air temps. I mean if you have the insulated room anywhere from 55-60 degrees I would have to assume the liquids in the fermenters would have to follow suit to at least 68 degrees if not less.

 

[SweetSounds]

I am not an expert on cooling liquids but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to accurately control 100 gallon fermenters with ambient air temps. I mean if you have the insulated room anywhere from 55-60 degrees I would have to assume the liquids in the fermenters would have to follow suit to at least 68 degrees if not less.

I think you're right - However, you would have to vary the temperature of the room as the fermentation progresses... Powerful active fermentation could last a day or 2 where the yeast is putting off a lot of heat, but after that you would then increase the temperature of the room to keep the core temp of the fermenter stable.

That's all fine and good, until you add 5 more tanks at different stages of fermentation That will complicate using the room temperature to control liquid temperature.

Again, It's not a deal breaker, just something to be aware of...

On this scale, it my be practical to use a small glycol system and some sort of immersion chiller, or submersible plate chiller like they use for wine.
Because, if you're after repeatability, fermentation temperature for any single recipe needs to be very close to the batch before.
OTOH, I doubt 1 or 2 fermenters out of 6 in a climate controlled room will pull the temperature of the room (And non-active fermenters) up my any degree that the AC units couldn't handle...

But hey, I have no practical knowledge. Just trying to think through it.

 

[Brewmoor]

I am going to go with the 110 gallon tank from here: http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=A-IN0110-30

I am going to plan on just maintaining temps with ambient air. I live in a fairly mild climate. I will have to worry more about heating the room then I will cooling it for most of the year. If I find that during the dead of summer I am having some issue I think I will make a copper coil to wrap the fermenters in.

 

[SweetSounds]

I can't WAIT to see 6 of those lined up and bubbling away

Epic

 

[kladue]

After finding out the hard way with a 20 gallon conical that ambient cooling will not remove enough heat, we went with internal 1/2" SS coil and chilled water for cooling. As in most ferment processes when the volume and heat generation goes up the ability of the fermenter to shed heat through the walls is usually inadequate at 60-70 degrees, it needs to be near freezing. Whether you go with internal or external cooling methods you will still have to use something to get enough of a temperature difference to remove the heat. Trying ambient air cooling of fermenters will be a challenge as the ambient air temperature would have be quite low for an active fermentation, and end up much to cool for initial and end stages. The other draw back of ambient cooling is moisture control as moisture flows from warm area to cooler area and builds up on cooling coil as ice. As always I advise against relying on window airconditioners for cold rooms even though they seem to work for a while, they are not equiped to deal with low cooling coil temperatures and ice buildup unless you do some controls work to incorporate a second temperature controller to de-ice, and seal all the openings that let in outside air.

 

[Ranger9913]

So you are placing 25'-50' of coiled SS tubing inside each fermenter and you're pumping chilled water through the coils. What are using or recommending to chill the water?

 

[SweetSounds]

How about this for cheap, easy, and effective?

A closed loop system - 12x12 or so transmission cooler mounted to the wall above the fermenter with a fan and a pump - somehow connected to a SS coil inside the fermenter.
Hell, you could even buy a spare lid or 2 and build "Chiller Lids" with everything mounted directly to the lid - Coils inside, radiator, fan outside.

I would think even at ambient temperatures in the fermentation room, the re-circulating coolant would go a long way to pulling down the internal temperature of the fermenter...

 

[Tom]

We are opening a taproom. This is going to be our proof of concept system. Our business plan has us doing this on the side and keeping our jobs. Brewing on weekends and serving after work.

The plan is to then get the money we need for a larger system after we can prove people like the beer and their is a market for it. We want to keep the taproom, locally distribute, and attach a homebrew store to it as well. With the hopes of us being able to quit our jobs at that point.

We are getting close. My partner is a lawyer. We have some initial investors to get started but we want to take it slow.

Cool. What town?

 

[Ranger9913]

http://www.fishsupply.com/sch-oc1504.html


For $700-$1000 this might not be bad. It would cost that much to build a cold room and insulate it.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think the cheapest and easiest thing to do would be use a stainless immersion coil (or two) mounted to the lid. Then use a chest freezer as a glycol well ala Brew Pastor. That is an easy solution that would be effective and space efficient.

 

[Ranger9913]

I think you're right. Would you then setup a PID/SSR to turn the pump on and off as needed?

 

[SweetSounds]

I think the cheapest and easiest thing to do would be use a stainless immersion coil (or two) mounted to the lid. Then use a chest freezer as a glycol well ala Brew Pastor. That is an easy solution that would be effective and space efficient.

There are a ton of those on eBay too - Just search for "Aquarium Chiller"
http://cgi.ebay.com/JBJ-ARCTICA-TITANIUM-AQUARIUM-CHILLER-1-5-HP-USED-/200484431135?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eadcda51f

If you need to drop a grand, it might as well be able to handle all 6 fermenters
http://cgi.ebay.com/BANNER-MODEL-60833-GLYCOL-POWER-PACK-CHILLER-/320426470813?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4a9ae7ed9d

Here's your beast - They have 6 of them!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pfannenberg-EB30WT-Industrial-Chiller-/110547910823?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bd2b40a7

 

[kladue]

Power the cooling unit and pump continously and use solenoid valve to divert coolant to fermenter. Love TS switches and 110 V solenoids would be easiest to work with, low voltage controls the safest in areas where you expect to washup frequently. If the fermenters have a means for cleaning the coils and internals a SS coil would be easier. If you do not have provisions for a good CIP procedure then copper coils around the outside would be safer as there would be fewer places for things to accumulate and get infected. Cleaning and sanitation problems will wreck your operation so plan carefully and be thorough in the cleaning and sanitation on the cold side equipment and fermentation area of the operation.

 

[Brewmoor]

Cool. What town?

Eagle, about 25 miles west of Vail.

 

[Brewmoor]

Power the cooling unit and pump continously and use solenoid valve to divert coolant to fermenter. Love TS switches and 110 V solenoids would be easiest to work with, low voltage controls the safest in areas where you expect to washup frequently. If the fermenters have a means for cleaning the coils and internals a SS coil would be easier. If you do not have provisions for a good CIP procedure then copper coils around the outside would be safer as there would be fewer places for things to accumulate and get infected. Cleaning and sanitation problems will wreck your operation so plan carefully and be thorough in the cleaning and sanitation on the cold side equipment and fermentation area of the operation.

I think I will go this route. Copper coils on the outside then wrap the fermenter and coils in bubble insulation. I am not too comfortable with things inside my fermenters. I just finished dealing with some weird sanitation issues stemming from bad yeast. I want to rule out anything that could be a variable when it comes to bigger batches.

 

[nickpgoodman]

For chilling fermenters why not go with something like this?

http://morewinepro.com/search/103171/beerwinecoffee/coffeewinebeer/Cooling_Plates

It's on the wine side but I don't know why it wouldn't work for beer...

 

[Brewmoor]

That looks like it would work Ok. I am just not too thrilled with putting stuff in my fermenters

 

[steveo929]

Nice thread, best of luck!

If you think you're going to be upgrading to a bigger & better system when you become successful, why not just get a bad ass professional chilled fermenter now? It'll be a bigger investment but will pay off in the long run.

 

[Brewmoor]

You hit it right on the head: It'll be a bigger investment!

We don't have the funds for that at the moment. It would be wasted money upfront to spend several thousand on each fermenter. One fermenter would be 2-3 months worth of rent.

Edit: Thanks for the vernacular. I like the emphasis on WHEN. I like that attitude.

 

[kladue]

If you need a low cost fermenter look for a used milk storage tank from a smaller dairy operation, they come equiped with cooling system coils and sanitary polish and triclover fitting attachments. That might be a cheaper route to start as there have been other startup operations that have used them in the past.

 

[steveo929]

I love the logo! Do you do them yourself?

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I see the conversation has moved away from the whole electrical bit, but just out of curiosity, was your electrical spreadsheet anything like the one I posted here?

If its different, would you mind sharing yours with me? khuygie88 at gmail d0t com

Good luck with everything, I hope to be doing what you are some day.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I see the conversation has moved away from the whole electrical bit, but just out of curiosity, was your electrical spreadsheet anything like the one I posted here?

If its different, would you mind sharing yours with me? khuygie88 at gmail d0t com

Good luck with everything, I hope to be doing what you are some day.

That's the same one. Not sure who created it, but it sure has gotten around.

 

[Brewmoor]

I love the logo! Do you do them yourself?

I wish...My roomates girlfriend is a web designer/graphic artist. She sat down with us the other night and worked through a design. This is the final version. We also have variation without the lettering. Just the flame and circle. It works well when it has to be a small label.