Need Advice - First brew - Imperial SMaSH IPA

[wozniaka]

Hello! So I got interested in brewing because a couple of my friends were into it, I enjoyed drinking what they were producing and decided to go all in! I have a habit of setting lofty goals, and my new one is (Successful) All Grain brewing within six months of my first batch!
So I am prepared (almost) to kick off my inaugural batch this weekend, but need some last minute advice; I am in hopes that someone out there will help me out!
For my first batch I found an awesome Imperial IPA SMaSH recipe using only Maris Otter malt and Galaxy hops, I am familiar with each of their flavor profiles and can imagine the finished product!
Unfortunately the recipe: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/100148/smash-galaxy is all grain. For my first 3-5 batches I want to use extract, here start my questions.
First: The recipe calls for 15lbs of Maris Otter Malt, since I will be using liquid extract should I calculate the difference by .75 for an equivalent 11.25lbs liquid? That seems like a lot of malt, more than I have seen for pretty much any other IIPA recipe… But again it is an IIPA, and a single light malt… Any thoughts? I did order 12lbs of liquid extract and 12oz of Galaxy, so I am prepared… lol
Second: The IPAs I love most have a sharp/crisp finish, I worry using only malt (no steeped grains) will result in an overly sweet finish… But since the malt is only Maris Otter and there are no “Crystals” included perhaps it will not be too sweet? Anyone tried something like this? I am considering adjuncting with a sugar to thin the body and if I get a little higher gravity, who’s to complain? I have a bag of Clear Belgian Syrup that promises to add no flavor, but how much to use?
Because of the density and high OG, I will use a yeast starter with WLP001 Cali Ale Yeast and add White Labs Servomyces Yeast Nutrient during the last 10 minutes of the boil, so I am confident I can kick off fermentation… (I hope)… lol
But that leads to my next to last question, should I oxygenate the wort? I have been unable to find any information about oxygen levels for this yeast strain, so I worry about forming more esters than would otherwise be produced as the Cali Yeast is kind of famous for being very “clean finishing”.
Finally, I am considering driving up the AAU to around 140, perhaps a increasing the final addition, or larger additions near end of the boil… Any recommendations for obtaining a strong bouquet?
So if I do add the Belgian Sugar and brew with the full 11-12lbs of malt, can I just increase my hop dose for balance or am I venturing into dangerous water?
Any feedback would be awesome!
Thanks in advance and Cheers!

 

[CrimsonYeti]

Well it won't be too sweet. The marris otter has great flavor on its own. If you add candi syrup you may get some sweetness from it. Sounds like a good brew without adding to the recipe. I have done many beers with Galaxy only and the turned out great.

 

[dpatrickv]

Hello! So I got interested in brewing because a couple of my friends were into it, I enjoyed drinking what they were producing and decided to go all in! I have a habit of setting lofty goals, and my new one is (Successful) All Grain brewing within six months of my first batch!
So I am prepared (almost) to kick off my inaugural batch this weekend, but need some last minute advice; I am in hopes that someone out there will help me out!
For my first batch I found an awesome Imperial IPA SMaSH recipe using only Maris Otter malt and Galaxy hops, I am familiar with each of their flavor profiles and can imagine the finished product!
Unfortunately the recipe: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/100148/smash-galaxy is all grain. For my first 3-5 batches I want to use extract, here start my questions.
First: The recipe calls for 15lbs of Maris Otter Malt, since I will be using liquid extract should I calculate the difference by .75 for an equivalent 11.25lbs liquid? That seems like a lot of malt, more than I have seen for pretty much any other IIPA recipe… But again it is an IIPA, and a single light malt… Any thoughts? I did order 12lbs of liquid extract and 12oz of Galaxy, so I am prepared… lol
Second: The IPAs I love most have a sharp/crisp finish, I worry using only malt (no steeped grains) will result in an overly sweet finish… But since the malt is only Maris Otter and there are no “Crystals” included perhaps it will not be too sweet? Anyone tried something like this? I am considering adjuncting with a sugar to thin the body and if I get a little higher gravity, who’s to complain? I have a bag of Clear Belgian Syrup that promises to add no flavor, but how much to use?
Because of the density and high OG, I will use a yeast starter with WLP001 Cali Ale Yeast and add White Labs Servomyces Yeast Nutrient during the last 10 minutes of the boil, so I am confident I can kick off fermentation… (I hope)… lol
But that leads to my next to last question, should I oxygenate the wort? I have been unable to find any information about oxygen levels for this yeast strain, so I worry about forming more esters than would otherwise be produced as the Cali Yeast is kind of famous for being very “clean finishing”.
Finally, I am considering driving up the AAU to around 140, perhaps a increasing the final addition, or larger additions near end of the boil… Any recommendations for obtaining a strong bouquet?
So if I do add the Belgian Sugar and brew with the full 11-12lbs of malt, can I just increase my hop dose for balance or am I venturing into dangerous water?
Any feedback would be awesome!
Thanks in advance and Cheers!

I've never done extract but I'll give out my advice here.

You won't get an overly sweet beer with just Maris Otter. MO is in fact my most used malt when I brew a beer with a single malt. It's a great base malt. 12lbs of LME will probably get you up to around 1.075 or so so you won't quite hit that 1.084 gravity. You could add in some table sugar to bump it up in the boil but its not necessary. Personally, I would probably add a pound of table sugar as I like my double IPAs dry.

As far as hops, I wouldn't change anything to get a higher IBU count. The bitterness on that is already high enough. If this was my recipe I'd probably do it like this.

1.5 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Boil 60 min
1.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Boil 15 min
1.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Boil 10 min
1.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Boil 5 min
2.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Flameout
2.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Dry Hop

IBU will drop slightly but theres already going to be enough bitterness there. Doing more flameout hops with help increase that aroma that you are looking for.

As far as oxygenating the wort. Yes. Do it. You aren't going to create off flavors by doing this. You may create off flavors if you don't ferment at the correct temps, but not oxygenating the wort.

 

[aprichman]

Do you have a big enough kettle to do a full boil? Do you have a way of cooling down the wort? IIPA is pretty ambitious (IMO) for a first brew, but it sounds like it would be a tasty one.

 

[wozniaka]

Thank you guys, really! I wasn't convinced this post would be taken seriously, because I understand an IIPA is ambitious for a beginner. I will follow dpatrickv's advice for the hop schedule, but I have to ask "Will you get different results using table sugar instead of candi sugar?" Keeping in mind what crimsonyeti said about candi sugar adding sweetness, is table sugar more soluble?
aprichman: I purchased a brewbuilt 10gal kettle, and a 7.5 gallon fast ferment. so I should be able to handle a five gallon batch even after going full grain. For cooling I purchased an Immersion Chiller and plan on coupling it with an ice batch in the tub.
I beleive the only thing I need for becoming full grain capable is a mashtun, and I am looking at 8gal round igloo coolers for that. It's just made more difficult being in Japan.

 

[dpatrickv]

Thank you guys, really! I wasn't convinced this post would be taken seriously, because I understand an IIPA is ambitious for a beginner. I will follow dpatrickv's advice for the hop schedule, but I have to ask "Will you get different results using table sugar instead of candi sugar?" Keeping in mind what crimsonyeti said about candi sugar adding sweetness, is table sugar more soluble?
aprichman: I purchased a brewbuilt 10gal kettle, and a 7.5 gallon fast ferment. so I should be able to handle a five gallon batch even after going full grain. For cooling I purchased an Immersion Chiller and plan on coupling it with an ice batch in the tub.
I beleive the only thing I need for becoming full grain capable is a mashtun, and I am looking at 8gal round igloo coolers for that. It's just made more difficult being in Japan.

My first beer was a coconut black ipa that I designed myself and was all grain so the fact that you are doing an IIPA isnt odd to me.

Table sugar to me to more true to the style for a double IPA. It will provide more fermentable sugar without adding additional flavor or sweetness. Candi syrup is something I tend to leave to more malt heavy styles in the first place.

It also has the added benefit of being dirt cheap.


I would also recommend a 10 gallon mash tun over 8 gallon.

 

[aprichman]

Thank you guys, really! I wasn't convinced this post would be taken seriously, because I understand an IIPA is ambitious for a beginner. I will follow dpatrickv's advice for the hop schedule, but I have to ask "Will you get different results using table sugar instead of candi sugar?" Keeping in mind what crimsonyeti said about candi sugar adding sweetness, is table sugar more soluble?
aprichman: I purchased a brewbuilt 10gal kettle, and a 7.5 gallon fast ferment. so I should be able to handle a five gallon batch even after going full grain. For cooling I purchased an Immersion Chiller and plan on coupling it with an ice batch in the tub.
I beleive the only thing I need for becoming full grain capable is a mashtun, and I am looking at 8gal round igloo coolers for that. It's just made more difficult being in Japan.

Good choice on the equipment - sounds like you're ready to rock and roll :rockin: If you're sticking to ~5 gallon batches an 8 gallon mash tun should work really well. A 10 gallon mash tun would allow you to step up to 10 gallon batches in the future, but for 5 gallon batches it will lose heat more quickly than an 8 gallon mash tun. The only other thing you will need to go full grain is an additional pot for heating up your water or catching your 1st runnings.

When you're fermenting make sure to keep an eye on your temperatures - IIPAs have a lot of fermentables and can produce A LOT Of heat. WLP001 is indeed a very clean yeast, but only if you keep it under 68-69F.

"Intelligence without ambition is a bird without wings" - S. Dali

Nothing wrong with shooting for an ambitious 1st beer

 

[A2HB]

A bigger mash tun will allow you to put more grains in which will give you a higher ABV on your batches. I use a 5 gallon tun and if I want to make 8,9,10% beers I have to scale down from 5 to 3 gallon batches because to get that high I need to put a lot of grain in there and a small tun will really restrict your ability to do that. If you're only planning on doing 5 or 6% beers a 5 gallon tun is perfect size for that. You're starting off doing a DIPA for your first beer so I'm guessing you like em strong. My advice would be to go for the 10 gallon tun, it will be more beneficial if you like making strong beers

 

[wozniaka]

dpatrickv- I enjoy black IPA's; never seen one with coconut though, that's awesome! I've assisted with several batches that my friends have done, and they will be there to ensure I dont screw anything up... So I'm pretty confident it will go okay. I'll go with the table sugar too, just seems so simple compared to everything else about brewing... lol
aprichman: I would be interested in a larger mash-tun, it's just that the PX out here only carries 8gal... I may just order a larger one online since I hadn't considered larger grain bills like A2HB mentioned, that is "Good looking out" by the way! Thank you!

Speaking of keeping an eye on fermentation temps, I am wondering about the best way to keep it cool. Ive got a dark closet in a spare bedroom with an independent air-conditioning unit. But Im not sure that will be effective enough, Im considering picking up a used refrigerator out in town "Japan" since they use smaller sized ones for < $100 (think about 1/3 size of an average american fridge) just going to have to figure out some way of connecting the wall mounts that came with fast ferment to inside of fridge, because the stand would make it too tall... Or if anyone has an easier/simple idea?

 

[shortyz]

this is your first batch?

 

[dpatrickv]

dpatrickv- I enjoy black IPA's; never seen one with coconut though, that's awesome! I've assisted with several batches that my friends have done, and they will be there to ensure I dont screw anything up... So I'm pretty confident it will go okay. I'll go with the table sugar too, just seems so simple compared to everything else about brewing... lol
aprichman: I would be interested in a larger mash-tun, it's just that the PX out here only carries 8gal... I may just order a larger one online since I hadn't considered larger grain bills like A2HB mentioned, that is "Good looking out" by the way! Thank you!

Speaking of keeping an eye on fermentation temps, I am wondering about the best way to keep it cool. Ive got a dark closet in a spare bedroom with an independent air-conditioning unit. But Im not sure that will be effective enough, Im considering picking up a used refrigerator out in town "Japan" since they use smaller sized ones for < $100 (think about 1/3 size of an average american fridge) just going to have to figure out some way of connecting the wall mounts that came with fast ferment to inside of fridge, because the stand would make it too tall... Or if anyone has an easier/simple idea?

Personally, if the ambient temp in your residence is 68 or so it should be fine. A fridge without an actual temp controller won't be incredibly helpful.

 

[aprichman]

Personally, if the ambient temp in your residence is 68 or so it should be fine. A fridge without an actual temp controller won't be incredibly helpful.

I disagree, if your ambient temp is around 68F your fermentation temps will likely exceed 75F during the peak of fermentation. Even a forgiving yeast like WLP001 is going to create noticeable off flavors at those temps. If your ambient temps are in the low 60s you could probably get by with a swamp cooler. IMO temperature control is one of the most important aspects of brewing, I can't stress this enough.

The best piece of brewing equipment I've ever bought is my temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

 

[dpatrickv]

I disagree, if your ambient temp is around 68F your fermentation temps will likely exceed 75F during the peak of fermentation. Even a forgiving yeast like WLP001 is going to create noticeable off flavors at those temps. If your ambient temps are in the low 60s you could probably get by with a swamp cooler. IMO temperature control is one of the most important aspects of brewing, I can't stress this enough.

The best piece of brewing equipment I've ever bought is my temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

While I can't exactly argue with you, a brand new brewer isn't going to jump right out and buy a fermentation fridge for his first beer. I have gotten away with not having one for 3 years(Although I do have a temp controller made...) and I have no problem with my 66-67 degree basement fermentation.


Will a temp controlled environment help make better beer? Sure, but lets not act like it can't be done without one.

 

[aprichman]

While I can't exactly argue with you, a brand new brewer isn't going to jump right out and buy a fermentation fridge for his first beer. I have gotten away with not having one for 3 years(Although I do have a temp controller made...) and I have no problem with my 66-67 degree basement fermentation.


Will a temp controlled environment help make better beer? Sure, but lets not act like it can't be done without one.

My advice focuses on best practices, so I'll give everyone the best advice regardless of their experience. I'm highly skeptical that beers fermented at ambient temps of 68F (or even 66-67F) would not have significant off flavors from esters and fusel alcohol production. Fermentation produces a lot of heat, it's not unusual to see the carboy fermenting at 7-10F above ambient temperature. I can't think of a single yeast that is going to remain "clean" much above 72F and even that is being generous IMO. A lot of ale strains getting in that temp range will produce some really funky esters and hot alcohol.

Have you ever measured the temperature of your basement with a calibrated thermometer? How are you gauging the temperature of your fermentation? Are you using anything like a swamp cooler to help add thermal mass?

Controlling the yeast is the most important aspect of brewing so I take temperature control pretty serious. I saw a HUGE improvement in my beers when I switched from ambient -> using a swamp cooler and another HUGE improvement going from swamp cooler -> temp controlled fermentation chamber.

In this case the OP was thinking about making a fermentation chamber which is something I highly encourage. It's not a huge investment (~$150 in the US, maybe less in Japan) and would go a long way in being able to make good beer from the get go.

 

[dpatrickv]

My advice focuses on best practices, so I'll give everyone the best advice regardless of their experience. I'm highly skeptical that beers fermented at ambient temps of 68F (or even 66-67F) would not have significant off flavors from esters and fusel alcohol production. Fermentation produces a lot of heat, it's not unusual to see the carboy fermenting at 7-10F above ambient temperature. I can't think of a single yeast that is going to remain "clean" much above 72F and even that is being generous IMO. A lot of ale strains getting in that temp range will produce some really funky esters and hot alcohol.

Have you ever measured the temperature of your basement with a calibrated thermometer? How are you gauging the temperature of your fermentation? Are you using anything like a swamp cooler to help add thermal mass?

Controlling the yeast is the most important aspect of brewing so I take temperature control pretty serious. I saw a HUGE improvement in my beers when I switched from ambient -> using a swamp cooler and another HUGE improvement going from swamp cooler -> temp controlled fermentation chamber.

In this case the OP was thinking about making a fermentation chamber which is something I highly encourage. It's not a huge investment (~$150 in the US, maybe less in Japan) and would go a long way in being able to make good beer from the get go.

You are more than welcome to try any of my beers. My basement room I ferment in stays at a solid 65-66 degrees all year around. Those stickon thermometers typically read around the 69-71 mark(albeit they may not be the most accurate).

While I am not arguing that fermentation control doesn't help with quality of product, I do believe if you ferment in a cool enough spot and are mindful of the situation you can make good beer.

 

[aprichman]

I think what's going on is that your basement is probably on the fringe of being JUST cold enough to ferment ale yeasts. 69-70F is a pretty safe temperature for most ale yeasts but if you were even a few degrees warmer (and fermenting around 73-74F) you would be seeing some weird off flavors starting to form.

I'm always down for trying beers from fellow homebrewers. I probably won't be in Nebraska any time soon but maybe we can setup a swap in the future.

 

[dstockwell]

While I can't exactly argue with you, a brand new brewer isn't going to jump right out and buy a fermentation fridge for his first beer.

Well I didn't jump out and buy one, I had a 1.7 thermoelectric fridge. I did purchase an STC-1000 and wire it up before doing my first beer. No other way I was going to maintain 64 degrees fermenting in the garage.

 

[dpatrickv]

Well I didn't jump out and buy one, I had a 1.7 thermoelectric fridge. I did purchase an STC-1000 and wire it up before doing my first beer. No other way I was going to maintain 64 degrees fermenting in the garage.

Sooner or later, when I purchase a big chest freezer to replace my 2 keg fridges, Ill repurpose one to do fermentation.

 

[kombat]

I have no problem with my 66-67 degree basement fermentation.

Will a temp controlled environment help make better beer? Sure, but lets not act like it can't be done without one.

Obviously, it's subjective. It will still be "beer," regardless. The only question is whether or not one can tolerate the higher esters, phenols, and fusels that are characteristic of a too-hot fermentation. Personally, I do not like those off flavours, but after 3 years of laissez-faire fermentations, you're apparently used to them and do not seem to mind them.

I prefer my beer to be the best it can be, and that means controlling fermentation temperatures.

 

[dpatrickv]

Personally, I do not like those off flavours, but after 3 years of laissez-faire fermentations, you're apparently used to them and do not seem to mind them.

Nope. I am not used to them nor do I enjoy them. My beer does not have the phenols, esters and off flavors of a too warm of fermentation. Obviously there isn't anything I can say to you to prove that to you but I'll take solace in my competition wins.

 

[wozniaka]

Guys, while I aprreciate your passion RAHAHB! lol Everything I have read this far has driven home the point that fermentation temps will have the largest largest effect on your final outcome outside of the recipe.
I wrote asking about easier alternatives to purchasing and modifying a small refridgerator, but since I dont like doing things in half-measures I decided to go ahead with the temp-controlled fermentation station... I ended up finding a used Hitachi fridge for $80, that is just big enough to hold the fast ferment; and does not have cooling lines running through the back panel... So today I will be working on mounting the wall brackets (came with fast ferment) into the fridge, by sandwiching the thin back panel between two pieces of 1x2" scrap wood.
To start, I will just keep the fridge turned on a low/med setting and watch the temperature, however I do plan on installing a temp monitor that can adjust cooling as necessary.
I delayed my first brew because admittedly I didn't initially have a good plan for maintaining temps... but If I can get it all put together today, Sunday may be my Inagural Brew Day. So thanks to you all for bringing my lack of planning to light!