NE IPA reviews

[Denny]

On Episode 15 of Experimental Brewing (coming 5/25/16) we talk NE IPA. To get you in the mood, Denny reviews 10 NE style IPAs. http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/oh-say-can-you-see-through-your-beer

 

[inkman15]

Good lord - please send me any leftover "off-putting" Tree House Green, Alter Ego, and Haze that wasn't consumed.

I'll bite and open up the inevitable can of worms here - I'll never understand why there is such emphasis on clarity and why the appearance is even remotely as an important factor as taste/aroma. Yes, I suppose the act of consuming a beer is inclusive of all your senses, but does the fact that something is hazy really undermine anything else?

Full disclosure that my fridge is loaded with this type of IPA - Tree House, Trillium, Grimm, Tired Hands, etc, but I also love your more traditional "West Coast" IPAs. However, in the consumption of either type, I never find myself looking at one and thinking how wonderful it looks (clear or hazy). Just not important to me.

 

[PeteNMA]

There's a reason that appearance is only three points on the BJCP score...

 

[Denny]

Good lord - please send me any leftover "off-putting" Tree House Green, Alter Ego, and Haze that wasn't consumed.

I'll bite and open up the inevitable can of worms here - I'll never understand why there is such emphasis on clarity and why the appearance is even remotely as an important factor as taste/aroma. Yes, I suppose the act of consuming a beer is inclusive of all your senses, but does the fact that something is hazy really undermine anything else?

Full disclosure that my fridge is loaded with this type of IPA - Tree House, Trillium, Grimm, Tired Hands, etc, but I also love your more traditional "West Coast" IPAs. However, in the consumption of either type, I never find myself looking at one and thinking how wonderful it looks (clear or hazy). Just not important to me.

For me, clarity is a minor aesthetic thing. If you read the reviews, what I objected to was the way the haze negatively affected the flavor. Now, that's my subjective opinion. If you like what it does, fine. I prefer a crisp IPA, not one with dull flavors.

 

[MaryB]

I don't see haze as a flavor issue at all. Mouth feel changes yes to a tiny extent...

 

[Braufessor]

I thought the reviews were an interesting read Denny. I like hoppy beer in general and I would say I have gradually leaned more and more toward the "NE IPA" version. That said - taste is subjective, and I can honestly see where people would not like them. In particular, I think any of us..... all of us.... become accustomed to certain tastes. When you find something you like, drink it over and over for a long time, and develop a perception for "the best of" that version - say "west coast IPA."

I can absolutely see where most/any NE IPA would really clash with that perception. They are just different beers in quite a few ways - beyond clarity. They are hopped in different ways, with different hops, different grain bills, different yeast with different attenuation and ester profiles..... They kind of fly in the face of several of the really "key" attributes of what has come to be the hallmark west coast IPA.

I think the exact same thing would happen in the opposite direction. People who spend years, decades drinking NE IPA's may find many of the traditional west coast IPA's to clash with their accustomed perception of what they normally enjoy drinking. Does not mean that either group is right or wrong..... it is just the way all of us develop our tastes over time.

I notice this on even a small scale basis. If I drink 2 or 3 of one kind of beer that I like, and then switch to a different beer (even a beer that I normally think is better)...... I just don't like it as much as the one I was drinking before. I have had beers where I did not really like the first few drinks, but, by the bottom of the pint, I am ready to order another because the taste has sort of grown on me and I got a little bit used to something different. For me, I am rather indifferent to most beer I drink upon initial sampling. Rarely, I find a beer that is spectacular (or horrible) on the first drink. More often, flavors grow on me over the course of a pint, or several, or even over time as I get "used to" a beer.

I hope a lot of the west coast folks get a chance to sample some other good NE IPA's fresh from the sources out in Baltimore at NHC this summer. There are some really good ones out there (along with some not so great or mediocre ones too). Having the opportunity to sample beers is great, but having the chance to sit down and drink a few pints of one that really catches you the right way is even better.

 

[GRBC]

I thought the reviews were an interesting read Denny. I like hoppy beer in general and I would say I have gradually leaned more and more toward the "NE IPA" version. That said - taste is subjective, and I can honestly see where people would not like them. In particular, I think any of us..... all of us.... become accustomed to certain tastes. When you find something you like, drink it over and over for a long time, and develop a perception for "the best of" that version - say "west coast IPA."

I can absolutely see where most/any NE IPA would really clash with that perception. They are just different beers in quite a few ways - beyond clarity. They are hopped in different ways, with different hops, different grain bills, different yeast with different attenuation and ester profiles..... They kind of fly in the face of several of the really "key" attributes of what has come to be the hallmark west coast IPA.

I think the exact same thing would happen in the opposite direction. People who spend years, decades drinking NE IPA's may find many of the traditional west coast IPA's to clash with their accustomed perception of what they normally enjoy drinking. Does not mean that either group is right or wrong..... it is just the way all of us develop our tastes over time.

I notice this on even a small scale basis. If I drink 2 or 3 of one kind of beer that I like, and then switch to a different beer (even a beer that I normally think is better)...... I just don't like it as much as the one I was drinking before. I have had beers where I did not really like the first few drinks, but, by the bottom of the pint, I am ready to order another because the taste has sort of grown on me and I got a little bit used to something different. For me, I am rather indifferent to most beer I drink upon initial sampling. Rarely, I find a beer that is spectacular (or horrible) on the first drink. More often, flavors grow on me over the course of a pint, or several, or even over time as I get "used to" a beer.

I hope a lot of the west coast folks get a chance to sample some other good NE IPA's fresh from the sources out in Baltimore at NHC this summer. There are some really good ones out there (along with some not so great or mediocre ones too). Having the opportunity to sample beers is great, but having the chance to sit down and drink a few pints of one that really catches you the right way is even better.

I think this is a good point. Reminds me of my first reaction to my homebrew version of Denny's Rye IPA. To my taste, it was aggressively bitter. Not sure if it was the higher than usual sulfate, or just the amount/type of hops used for the bittering charge, but the hop bitterness came across as harsh to me. Clearly, it is a beer that is well liked by many.

If that is the flavor profile you have come expect in an IPA, I can see how a soft, fruity, hoppy & yes hazy beer would come across as outside the lines.

 

[303Dan]

It seems to me that most of the disagreement that happens with this topic is that some people come at it through the lens of BJCP style guidelines and others want to completely ignore that aspect. If you're evaluating the NE IPAs based on the style guidelines for the American IPA category, they're not going to do well. I just entered one of these beers in a BJCP comp and I fully expect it to get destroyed even though I think it's delicious. Why? Because it's fairly hazy (not murky, I personally don't care for my beer looking like a yeast starter), it is not crisp and dry, but rather soft with a full mouthfeel, and it does not have the sharp hop bitterness that the style looks for. But I had no choice but to enter it as an American IPA in this comp.

These beers shouldn't be directly compared to West Coast IPAs, or really any IPA in my opinion. I think if they prove to be more than a fad, there should be a new category defined for them because I think they're a completely new style.

I also think that there are two basic types of beer drinkers that are gravitating towards this new style: first are those that have been IPA fans for some time, really enjoy hop aroma and flavor, and just look at these beers as another way of getting those qualities. I'm one of those and I love variety. The second type are those who probably never liked West Coast IPAs that much because they don't really like hop bitterness. So these beers are a way to be introduced to massively hopped beers that just aren't that bitter. That's probably why they are getting so popular: because they drink easier and they appeal to a wider audience.

Anyway, just my take on it. I personally enjoy both sides. If you make me choose one, I could never give up my favorite West Coast IPAs like FW Union Jack. That beer is just glorious. That being said, I'll be in Boston in July and I'll be visiting Trillium and I'm really looking forward to that.

Dan

 

[Denny]

FWIW, style guidelines never entered into my evaluation. It was all about drinkability and enjoyability. I am a HUGE IPA fan and have been for many years, maybe longer than most people here have been brewing. I find that these beers, at least the ones I've tried, hide the qualities I enjoy in an IPA. FWIW, Union Jack can't hold a candle to IPAs from Block 5 and Bale Breaker.

 

[303Dan]

Exactly my point. If I was in the mood for an American IPA, a style I've loved for 15+ years, and instead I had one of these new beers, I'd be disappointed. They're just too different. That's why I'm saying I don't think they should be directly compared to each other. Not saying that's what what you were trying to do, but it definitely seems like you were wanting these beers to be crisp, dry and cleanly bitter. That's not what they're intended to be. Which, in my opinion, is just fine. You either like them or you don't.

I've never had Bale Breaker or Block15 but you have definitely made me want to try them! . Living in Colorado, I do get a pretty decent selection of Pacific Northwest beers, and I really do love Union Jack compared to the best I've tried from that region, as well as California, etc. everybody has their favorites.

 

[Denny]

Just to be clear, I'm not comparing the 2 styles. My entire review was based on my subjective opinions of these beers for what they were and my enjoyment of them. While I prefer the crisp, dry style, I was trying to confine my comments to what these NE beers were and my enjoyment of them.

ETA: Now that I thnk about it over a beer, I think you're probably right. I want an IPA that meets my expectations, and those are defined by what I've had in the past. But not to the point where I couldn't apreciate something new and different that fell outside of those expectations..at least I hope I could. But like everyone else, like you do with food, I've developed a particular set of tastes and preferences. I can learn to appreciate new things, but I also know what I like. Just like everybody else!

 

[tagz]

Denny loves to stir that pot!