NC officially bans smoking in bars / restaurants

[svengoat]

Actually farting is a perfect anology..Both smoke and farts contain toxic elements that can kill you if concentrated, so apparently you didn't check out your farts well enough..


Try google..LOL

 

[Evan!]

You can't tell private establishments how to do business. I don't understand how the government has the power to do this.

Let's be clear, here, because I have debated this with nanny-statists many time in the past, back when DC was going non-smoking...

...the government has clearly established a precedent for telling businesses that are open to the public what they must do and cannot do. Health codes. Fire safety & egress codes. Building codes.

The reason I bring this up is because I am anticipating someone on this forum to use this as an argument in favor of the smoking ban. Many nanny-statist smoking-ban-supporters use this argument freely. And so I mean to cut them off at the pass before they can even attempt to start arguing with you that yes, the government can and does tell businesses what to do, even though they're "private" businesses, in the interest of public safety.

The obvious hole in this line of reasoning is that things like fire safety, health safety, building safety, are hazards that are not easily observable to the casual customer. When I enter your restaurant, I can't be expected to know that the egress door in the back is blocked with crates and thus, if a fire breaks out, I might not be able to get out. I can't be expected to know if your chef is not washing his hands and is possibly passing on harmful bacteria in my food. I can't be expected to know if the ceiling joists above me are sized and spaced in such a manner that the roof is safely held up. All of these are unknowable hazards, and so you can at least entertain an argument that the public (in the form of a governing authority) has an interest in protecting the casual customer from these unknowable hazards.

Smoking does not fit this bill, however, because it is a clear, obvious, knowable, observable hazard to anyone who can see and/or smell, prior to entering the premises. Not only that, but unlike a fire safety hazard or a health safety hazard like e. coli, second-hand smoke takes prolonged exposure to manifest itself as any meaningful harm. So you would have to observe the smoke, then make the conscious decision to expose yourself to it for prolonged periods of time (several years, regularly) to see any meaningful damage to your health. All it takes is one fire or one poorly-designed roof structure, or one exposure to e. coli, in order for me to be harmed in a meaningful way.

EDIT: ha, I knew it was only a matter of time...

And every bars becomes a "public" place when they open their doors to the public.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

problem with "Dont go to smokey bars"is before the ban no such thing existed. You rights actually end when they infringe on mine. Bars need to abide by 100's of laws in order to operate from health to safety codes to where they buy there beer and booze.So to say its the owners right to run the business as they see fit is well misguided. And every bars becomes a "public" place when they open their doors to the public.

Here Private clubs can still have smoking and also cigar bars where 20% of the business is cigar sales . Slesingers steak house in New Windsor NY has a cigar bar that is sealed from the eating area.

Smoking is legal so is drinking but if I walk out of a bar with a beer in my hand I can be arrested.

Most places have outdoor smoking area's now around here . They arent used much though I wonder if the 5$ a pack price here has anything to do with less people smoking.

Bull ****!!!!!! There are a TON of smoke free bars around here. I frequent many of them. It is up to the owner to decide if they want to attract that kind of market.

It is just a scam for the small places outside the cities where regular people are just going to relax with the neighbors and see what's up in town. I know many city people think these ignorant people clinging to their guns and religion <dig> aren't worth caring about, but they just want to work hard pay their taxes and have a damn beer and a cig at the end of the day.

WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO ACCEPT?

Just go someplace else if you don't like the public house.

 

[moti_mo]

Do I have to use a different bathroom too? How about a water fountain?

What about the smoke "smell" on my coat? Do I need to sit in the back of the bus?

Smokers were already second class citizens in some respects while being hammered with taxes. Now they have to go outside to practice a legal activity?

The smoke smell on your coat isn't a public safety concern. It's just unpleasant. Therefore, yes, you can walk around smelling like smoke all you want.

 

[UncleDave]

I never thought this day would come. Good for North Carolina! I support this wholeheartedly and hope Purdue signs off on the bill quickly and the law is enacted sooner than later. I generally stay away from bars because I am allergic to smoke and now I will be able to enjoy a beer or three out sometimes.

 

[springer]

Good point, we had better ban alcohol, salt, fats, acids, soda and all other harmful products before we the dumb innocents hurt ourselves further. For that matter, we had better take away all pointy objects, guns, sticks, and put pads on all our hands and feet and muzzles on all our mouths.

The world is fraught with danger. Get over it. Or live in a bubble. Personally, I don't think second hand smoke is nearly as dangerous as has been believed. I don't have any proof of that, its just my personal stance.

well what you do to your body is well your business eat 100 big macs every day I don't give a ratsass. But second hand smoke has been proven to carry toxins and smoking effects everyone around you drinking yourself to death effects you unless you get in a car while drunk.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I never thought this day would come. Good for North Carolina! I support this wholeheartedly and hope Purdue signs off on the bill quickly and the law is enacted sooner than later. I generally stay away from bars because I am allergic to smoke and now I will be able to enjoy a beer or three out sometimes.

Don't ya just love it when a law gets passed to suit your own interests perfectly? I'm waiting for the law that allows me to shoot kids that get on my fooking lawn.....Do you have kids?

 

[Evan!]

problem with "Dont go to smokey bars"is before the ban no such thing existed.

Wrongo-dongo. And even if there weren't any, that doesn't give you the right to force OTHER property owners, who put their blood, sweat, tears and money into their own bar, to do your bidding. You know, I'd like it if all bars gave away free booze. But none of them do! Oh noes! Well, maybe you should start your OWN bar that gives away booze, rather than be so selfish as to tell everyone else what they must do.

You rights actually end when they infringe on mine.

Again, this isn't about smokers' rights, it's about property rights.

Bars need to abide by 100's of laws in order to operate from health to safety codes to where they buy there beer and booze.So to say its the owners right to run the business as they see fit is well misguided. And every bars becomes a "public" place when they open their doors to the public.

See my argument above regarding why smoking does not fit the same bill as health and safety codes.

Smoking is legal so is drinking but if I walk out of a bar with a beer in my hand I can be arrested.

Another bullsh*t law. Yay.

 

[mmb]

The smoke smell on your coat isn't a public safety concern. It's just unpleasant. Therefore, yes, you can walk around smelling like smoke all you want.

I don't smoke. I also don't got to bars very frequently because I don't care for the "scene."

Your go outside comment smacked of "separate, but equal." It's not different, just do it outside. In the wind and rain, while I swipe your chair. But you can't take your drink outside, nope that's illegal.

Next step is bitching about people smoking near the door. Oh, I know... let's pass a law that you have to be 10 feet way from the door. And to know you are 10 feet away, let's paint a half circle "border" for you so you know where you can stand.

Sounds crazy? We've already had this discussion at the office. I kid you not.

 

[springer]

Bull ****!!!!!! There are a TON of smoke free bars around here. I frequent many of them. It is up to the owner to decide if they want to attract that kind of market.

It is just a scam for the small places outside the cities where regular people are just going to relax with the neighbors and see what's up in town. I know many city people think these ignorant people clinging to their guns and religion <dig> aren't worth caring about, but they just want to work hard pay their taxes and have a damn beer and a cig at the end of the day.

WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO ACCEPT?

Just go someplace else if you don't like the public house.

I applaud that there are smoke free bars around you but there was no such animal around here prior to the law and I have been to pretty much all the local bars in my area .There are ways to get around around the smoking ban if the bar owner wants ,go private or become a cigar bar .

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Smoking is legal so is drinking but if I walk out of a bar with a beer in my hand I can be arrested.

Good logic.

'We have this one really stupid and over reaching law... so why don't we make a bunch of other to match it!'

Hurray.

 

[ChillyP]

Has anyone ever tried <i>REAL</i> tobacco? I mean fresh tobacco, unprocessed tobacco? I never thought about it till a couple of years ago I was talking to a guy in my neighborhood and he had a tobacco plant growing in his front planter. He said he'd been growing them for years. He rolled a cig...... and it was amazing. Wasn't harsh like the store bought. It was smoothed and soothing. After that I've been growing one in my front yard ever since. Everyone should do it. I always tell people, once the government is done taxing cigs, alcohol, junk food, etc out of existence there going to come for <b>SOMETHING</b> You love......

 

[Absolut_Ninja]

Maybe we should ban tobacco companies from putting harmful fillers in the cigs and let people smoke all naturals wherever the hell they want;

Yall wanna give me the second hand smoke speech now?

 

[Brewer_Steve]

You can't tell private establishments how to do business. I don't understand how the government has the power to do this.

Where I live, an employer is under the obligation to provide a safe working environment for his employees.
Part of that would be a smoke-free environment.

Maybe it's more about employee health and safety rather than telling them how to do business.

 

[Evan!]

well what you do to your body is well your business eat 100 big macs every day I don't give a ratsass. But second hand smoke has been proven to carry toxins and smoking effects everyone around you drinking yourself to death effects you unless you get in a car while drunk.

By voluntarily entering a contained establishment that has cigarette smoke floating around in the air, and voluntarily remaining there, whilst knowing full well that you are voluntarily ingesting secondhand smoke, which can be harmful to your health, you are making a CHOICE to voluntarily harm yourself, just like the person smoking has made a choice to harm themselves. Yes, when a business opens its doors to the public, it also opens itself to the intervention of governing agencies who are interested in protecting the public from harm. But as I stated above, there is a fundamental difference between protecting the public from unknowable, imminent harm (like invisible bacteria in their food), and protecting them from something that is both easily observable and that requires prolonged exposure to register meaningful health problems.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I applaud that there are smoke free bars around you but there was no such animal around here prior to the law and I have been to pretty much all the local bars in my area .There are ways to get around around the smoking ban if the bar owner wants ,go private or become a cigar bar .

Wow... so let me get this straight... there not enough demand for smoke free establishments in your area to support a single smoke free bar, but now you have mandated the EVERY bar prohibits smoking?

And this somehow makes sense to everyone???

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Has anyone ever tried <i>REAL</i> tobacco? I mean fresh tobacco, unprocessed tobacco? I never thought about it till a couple of years ago I was talking to a guy in my neighborhood and he had a tobacco plant growing in his front planter. He said he'd been growing them for years. He rolled a cig...... and it was amazing. Wasn't harsh like the store bought. It was smoothed and soothing. After that I've been growing one in my front yard ever since. Everyone should do it. I always tell people, once the government is done taxing cigs, alcohol, junk food, etc out of existence there going to come for <b>SOMETHING</b> You love......

I picked tobacco for one season when I lived in France. My neigbour grew tobacco for Phillip Morris.

I snaffled some, and dried it in my barn......Damned near frigging killed me!!

 

[Absolut_Ninja]

Has anyone ever tried <i>REAL</i> tobacco? I mean fresh tobacco, unprocessed tobacco? I never thought about it till a couple of years ago I was talking to a guy in my neighborhood and he had a tobacco plant growing in his front planter. He said he'd been growing them for years. He rolled a cig...... and it was amazing. Wasn't harsh like the store bought. It was smoothed and soothing. After that I've been growing one in my front yard ever since. Everyone should do it. I always tell people, once the government is done taxing cigs, alcohol, junk food, etc out of existence there going to come for <b>SOMETHING</b> You love......

We seemed to post at the same time; question is, did I blow smoke in your face on the way in?

 

[Evan!]

Where I live, an employer is under the obligation to provide a safe working environment for his employees.
Part of that would be a smoke-free environment.

Maybe it's more about employee health and safety rather than telling them how to do business.

Being an ice fisherman or a lumberjack is very dangerous, but they do it anyway, and the government doesn't stop them from doing it. Again, this goes back to the "knowable hazard" versus "unknowable hazard". A worker knows, when they go to work at a bar that allows smoking, that they will be exposed to it. They make this rational choice. This is different from unknowable hazards that the worker cannot reasonably be expected to know about prior to being exposed to them. That having been said, even many of the workplace safety laws are arcane and overreaching, and should be repealed. There are valid laws, of course, on those books, but there are also many absurd ones.

 

[springer]

Wrongo-dongo. And even if there weren't any, that doesn't give you the right to force OTHER property owners, who put their blood, sweat, tears and money into their own bar, to do your bidding. You know, I'd like it if all bars gave away free booze. But none of them do! Oh noes! Well, maybe you should start your OWN bar that gives away booze, rather than be so selfish as to tell everyone else what they must do.

Around here bars can and do give booze away its called a buy back and I have received plenty.

If you want to open a brewery can you just do it? Same **** different situation If you own a bar you abide by the laws present and future. If the law is oppressive lobby to change it.

 

[Evan!]

Around here bars can and do give booze away its called a buy back and I have received plenty.

If you want to open a brewery can you just do it? Same **** different situation If you own a bar you abide by the laws present and future. If the law is oppressive lobby to change it.

I have, thank you very much. I was a supporter of the group that rallied against the DC smoking ban in the early 00's. I have been vocal to my state reps against the ban here in VA.

However, my actions are not relevant to whether this law is justifiable. Nothing irks me more than when supporters of a law use "well, it's the law" as an argument in favor of a law. Talk about circular reasoning!

 

[flyangler18]

I normally stay the hell out of these conversations, but I need to make an observation based on some bars here in PA. The vast majority of eateries/public houses in this state are smoke-free, though there are a small percentage that, through some provision under the ban, permit smoking. I'll have to research the specifics.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Glad to see so many voices of reason on this board...not usually the case on other forums (of different topics). It has ALWAYS been about the smell...the whole 'health' angle is merely a justification. And that's what is so sad...that people will be so intrusive towards others just because they are put off by a smell. Just another step in the wussification of the US.

Smoke em if ya got em.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

But that movement worked so well. I mean prohibition was such a success...

 

[ChillyP]

We seemed to post at the same time; question is, did I blow smoke in your face on the way in?

Heck Yeah.....AHAHAHAHAHA I actually wanted to sue a guy the other day from his second hand car smoke when I was driving behind him..... but I just decided to move over. Life is to short for that hangup. I'll let the yard NAZI complain.

 

[Evan!]

But that movement worked so well. I mean prohibition was such a success...

the war on drugs, also, has been very effective in keeping people off of drugs.

honestly, with all the nanny-state do-goodery these days, and the complete and utter lack of self-determination and responsibility amongst our lazy, apathetic, wussified populace, I'm surprised that smoking hasn't been banned altogether.

 

[ChillyP]

the war on drugs, also, has been very effective in keeping people off of drugs.

honestly, with all the nanny-state do-goodery these days, and the complete and utter lack of self-determination and responsibility amongst our lazy, apathetic, wussified populace, I'm surprised that smoking hasn't been banned altogether.

WHAT???? Smoking isn't banned? Dang and to think I decide to quit Aspirin to help with the War on Drugs. Dang guess I'll go outside and finish off releasing the rest of my CFCS hairspray...

 

[Greenmutt24]

I'm surprised that smoking hasn't been banned altogether.

They can't do that they need the money to much to pay for government run programs.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

That's the ugliest group of depression-era trannies that I've ever seen.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

They can't do that they need the money to much to pay for government run programs.

Exactly. It's a cash cow. Federal tax on tobacco increased on 4/1, along with state tax in OH.