MY RIS recipe critique please

[olotti]

*Edited with some of the suggestions from here.

This is my second go around on a RIS recipe just pulling things from here and there. I really want in the end a thick, viscous, motor oil like RIS, that's basically jet black and has that dark brow/tan head on it. So I'll give the grains and their percentage of the grain bill.

Marris Otter- 65%
Roasted Barley- 5.8%
Chocolate malt- 4.1%
flaked oats- 4.1%
flaked barley- 3.5%
C120-2.3%
Special B- 3.5%
Black patent- 2%


I'm still adding 2lbs LDME (9.3% grain bill) in the boil to get the gravity where I need it since my mash tun will be about maxed out with the grain bill listed above. Without the DME it equals 19.5lbs of actual grain.

Original Gravity- 1.098 (with the LDME)
Est Final Gravity-1.026
IBU-85
SRM-55.5

yeast- Huge starter of WLP002

Mashing at 148deg for 90 min to help get the FG down and at a water:grain of 1.27qt/lb. Thanks for looking.

Just an update. I took my first FG reading today at 3 weeks and it's reading 1.020!!!!!! Idk what that makes for attenuation it started at 1.098 so prob around 85-90%. And the sample is not dry at all in fact the body is very vicious and thick just what I was going after. Proves that a nice big starter of 002 mashed low can really do the job.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

So is the remaining 12.6% the DME?

 

[eelpout]

I get the feeling that when the hops drop out of this it will be a raisin bomb with both the 120 and Special b.
I personally would drop one of them.

 

[JonM]

I love 002 but it is a low attenuator. I'd suggest giving it every opportunity to attenuate as much as it can. Lowering the mash temp to 148-149 and doing a 90+ minute mash should help. Seriously - last big beer I did, I mashed at 148 for almost 2 hours and pitched on a full cake from a ESB using 1968 (same as 002) and it got stuck at over 1.040. (Granted, my temperature control wasn't the best with that batch and it might have stalled because it was too cool, but it still helps to baby 002 a little bit.)

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I agree, that is quite a bit of crystal/caramel malts, personally I would keep the entire addition of those type of malts to 5% or under. That is probably also a lot of carapils for a beer this big, the other malts will provide enough body to still keep this beer really motor oily. Possibly drop the mash temp to ~148 to make sure the wort is very fermentable.

 

[solbes]

Agree with most of the above. Mash low, drop the C120 or cut in half, and possibly pitch 3/4 - 1 cake from a previous batch. I'd drop the Carapils as well. I've never heard of an RIS with too little body, they usually finish high enough. Stuck ferments are much more common.

You might want to add another 10 IBU's of the bittering addition if you plan on aging these past 9 months. The bitterness really fades over time. 93 sounds like a lot, but not when compared with the residual sweetness.

 

[olotti]

So is the remaining 12.6% the DME?

The DME is = to 9% of the grain bill per Beersmith

 

[olotti]

I get the feeling that when the hops drop out of this it will be a raisin bomb with both the 120 and Special b.
I personally would drop one of them.

If I drop the special B should I add that amount to the base Marris Otter malt otherwise my OG will drop.

 

[olotti]

I agree, that is quite a bit of crystal/caramel malts, personally I would keep the entire addition of those type of malts to 5% or under. That is probably also a lot of carapils for a beer this big, the other malts will provide enough body to still keep this beer really motor oily. Possibly drop the mash temp to ~148 to make sure the wort is very fermentable.

What about if I dropped the special B and Carapils then just added those amounts to the base marris otter amount to keep my OG where I want it.

 

[huckbof]

agree, I'd go with 80% MO, drop the carapils and specialb
consider adding 24oz of thawed frozen raspberries at flim-flamout

 

[Damoxemus]

I did the Kate the Great Clone and the Special B (well, Spec W in my case) was 3.2% and the Cyrstal 120 was 1% and some Crystal 30 at 1% too. Seems to have worked out well (so far),

 

[olotti]

I love 002 but it is a low attenuator. I'd suggest giving it every opportunity to attenuate as much as it can. Lowering the mash temp to 148-149 and doing a 90+ minute mash should help. Seriously - last big beer I did, I mashed at 148 for almost 2 hours and pitched on a full cake from a ESB using 1968 (same as 002) and it got stuck at over 1.040. (Granted, my temperature control wasn't the best with that batch and it might have stalled because it was too cool, but it still helps to baby 002 a little bit.)

I used 002 on my first RIS and it went nuts although it fermented a touch warm in the 68-70deg range it blewoff for 48hrs and after leaving in the primary a month it had no prob dropping from 1.106 to 1.028 so I figured it did so good this time I'd try it again. Seems others have the advice of mashing lower in the 148 range so maybe I'll do that just to make sure it will hit the FG.

 

[olotti]

bumped with the changes to the recipe.

 

[olotti]

Just an update. I took my first FG reading today at 3 weeks and it's reading 1.020!!!!!! Idk what that makes for attenuation it started at 1.098 so prob around 85-90%. And the sample is not dry at all in fact the body is very vicious and thick just what I was going after. Proves that a nice big starter of 002 mashed low can really do the job.

 

[solbes]

Nice job, I'd say 1.020 is about perferct for an RIS. And it should only be vicious if you drink more than 2 of them

 

[JonM]

Nice work!
So was the fermentation just like a furious volcano of activity? Those are mesmerizing to watch.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Wow, 1.020 FG is really low for a 1.100+ beer. I'd be a bit worried if I got over 75% attenuation on that. On my big beers, I'm getting 63% - 69% attenuation, and that's exactly the way I like them. Big full body and no alcohol burn.

 

[olotti]

Nice work!
So was the fermentation just like a furious volcano of activity? Those are mesmerizing to watch.

It was for about 36hrs and I only lost .25 gal but yeah when ferm kicked in it went crazy with a temp around 66 deg. I then moved it upstairs where temps are 68-70 and I really think this is what helped it finish out and ultimitely go lower. I'm deg impressed by the work this did, there's a bit of booziness to it but the mouthfeel is still real thick.

 

[olotti]

Wow, 1.020 FG is really low for a 1.100+ beer. I'd be a bit worried if I got over 75% attenuation on that. On my big beers, I'm getting 63% - 69% attenuation, and that's exactly the way I like them. Big full body and no alcohol burn.

Why worry? Think it'll cause to much alcohol burn. It's present but no more so than what I detect in kbs, plead the 5th or any other 10% or bigger stout. The body is still full at least I think so it's very viscous and chewy but not overly sweet. It'll get better I hope when it bottle conditions.