my graff has notes of soy sauce?

[phug]

I started a batch of graff back on Mar 1st, and i just racked it to secondary because there was lots of trub, or so it seemed. It's currently at 1.008, and I'll have to see if that's where it ends or if it goes any farther.

It's sort of a chocolate milk colour, opaque, and I'm getting chocolate notes, some roasty notes, heading towards burnt, and for some reason, I smell and taste a bit of soy sauce in it. So far, I'm not seeing this as being fantastic, but I suspect I've mucked it up. I'm glad it's just a one gallon batch, but I have plenty of wort left over. I'm going to have to let it ride, and see how it goes.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Posting your recipe & method will help the rest of us to try to diagnose the problem.
Regards, GF.

 

[phug]

2 lbs 2 row malt
2 lbs Amber malt
.6 lbs Crystal 60 - 120 depending on the type of juice to be used.
.6 oz hops of mt. hood

Mash grains for 1 hour at 155F in 1.5 gallons (5.67 litres) in grain bag ( temp swung as low as 150m and as high as 158. Electric stove top
I put a SS veggie steamer in the bottom of the pot to keep the bag off the bottom
remove bag with grains, drain, and batch sparge with .56 gallons (2.11 litres) at 170F to replace water loss to grains.

Boil for thirty minutes with hop addition at the beginning of the boil.
Assume .3 gallons (1.13 litres) water loss to boil-off
Target volume is 1.2 gallons (4.54 litres)
Chill in the sink with a cold water bath. I opted not to go with ice in the water, as my cold water is extermely cold this winter.

I split off 750 ml of wort, and added to it 3 litres of President's choice unfiltered cider. The remainder of the wort I bottled in 750 ml swingtops and put them into a near freezing fridge to keep for later batches.

OG of the wort was 1.070, OG with the cider added 1.054

Pitched 3 grams S-04 dry yeast, no starter, no rehydration.

Pitched on 03/01/2014, Fermented at 60F racked it to secondary on 03/15/2015, SG was at 1.008, not sure if it will go any further, as I'm not currently seeing any signs of ongoing fermentation, some yeast did make it into secondary, but not much. It's a milk chocolatey colour, and opaque. Can't even see through it in the hydro sample jar.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Sounds like it's still fermenting. Graff should drop clear, even though it might be dark due to crystal 120, it should still drop clear. The milkiness is caused by yeast in suspension; when it's done, that yeast will settle to the bottom, allowing you to rack clear graff to a carbouy for aging or a bottling bucket for priming & bottling. All you really need to do is wait and let time & the yeast work for you. Now as to the soy sauce flavour, I'm not sure, but it MIGHT be simply that it's young/not done. Possibly oxidation, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions. Here's a thread that may offer some insight as to the off flavours:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/stouts-soy-sauce-character-443230/

It deals with "soy sauce" flavours in porter, but it might also apply in this case. That's the best I can do on that, I've never gotten "soy sauce" flavours in any of my fermentations & I've experimented with quite a few malts & adjuncts in graff, including crystal 120.
Regards, GF.

 

[phug]

Thanks Gratus, I'm going to take a look at that link.

As to opacity, I am starting to see some layer separation in it now, I wasn't sure yesterday as it was separating at the transition from the shoulder to the side of the carboy, so it could have been a trick of the light and refraction. But this morning the separation line was an inch or two lower.

I hope it's not oxidation, but I did swirl it a few times over the last couple of days to see if I could drive some of the CO2 out of solution, both to try to fill any remaining headspace with CO2, and also to see if the Co2 in solution was helping to hold any particles in suspension.

 

[phug]

I checked on it tonight, and it is at 1.007, which, now that I look at my notes, is actually what it was at, instead of 1.008. I've taken for granted how easy it is to take a gravity reading with cider, because it has no head.

This sample had a dense, creamy smooth looking foam on top, about an 8th of an inch or more that made seeing what my SG difficult. It definitely is holding that foam well. Colour in the sample jar is different now, I can see light come through it, and I get a nice amber colour, lots of haze still, but I can see progress. Into the fridge it goes to cold crash and drop of some more solids.

The soy sauce note is still there, but not as accentuated, the chocolate note I didn't seem to notice, but I sipped a very small sample. I'm getting some tartness now, and maybe some bitterness. seeing how much this is changing now, I have a lot more optimism and hope about the finished product.

 

[Sandow]

Soy sauce notes may indicate an infection with Aspergillus Niger. It is usually a harmless mold used in the fermentation of soy sauce and other asian sauces and foods. It can also be a lethal pathogen depending on the state of your immune system and how it is taken in. If you don't have the ability to do a real culture of it, you can do a cheap version that will probably work. Using the best sterile technique you can manage, inoculate a slice of bread with some of your batch and put it in a zip lock. Keep it at room temp out of the sun and if it is A. niger, it will grow white on the edges and black as it matures within about a week.

In this setting it is probably harmless but will taste and smell strange regardless of age.

-Sandow

 

[phug]

update,

I cold crashed it for about 2 weeks, and it dropped a reasonable amount of sediment. I finally got fed up with it taking up one of my fermenters a decided to bottle it, and then let the conditioning process and time do what it wanted with it.
Primed with 55ml of Apple Juice Concentrate.
Bottled almost exactly 1 gallon, and then took the last bit for a taste test.
The roasty and chocolatey notes have faded, but the Emame, or Soy aroma is still there, and more noticeable, but there's no soy flavour at all. It's not as dark as before, but is still very hazy.

I normally bottle a mix of 341ml and 750 ml bottles, but opted to bottles exclusively in 341 ml bottles this time, so that I can space them out better, and see how it does over time.

SWMBO smelled the graff, and confirmed the soy/emame aroma, but refused to try it.

 

[phug]

We had a friend over who's a pretty big foodie, and she reacted very favourably to the 3 ciders that I put out on the table for trying. As well a the general concept of home fermentation. So, given that she had only nice things to say, and given that she's Japanese, I opted to ask if she would be interested in trying my graff. She was excited, I opened it and poured us both some, ( swmbo declined) and she tried it.

She said she really enjoyed it and that the aroma reminded her less of soy sauce, but more of natto, which is a fermented soy bean treat. And to her is comfort food. She said she actually liked this a little better than the cider, though it did get finished slower. The natto aroma is still there, and the chocolate notes have come back to br the next most noticeable flavour. It truly is an Asian graff, or maybe "natto normal graff"



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[phug]

I kicked off another batch using the wort tha tI had saved from the first one. I opened the bottle of wort and got the same soy aroma. So clearly it was not a byproduct of fermentation. That being said, it mellowed with time and carbonation on the first batch. I'm enjoying that first batch, and won't worry about it. I'll just make sure I share it with a select group of people. I have enough wort saved that I can make 4 more batches, and I think I will, sooner rather than later, as primary space opens up.