My First Brew AKA Brewing With Nothing (With PICS!)
- Thread starter Xier
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yancydc
Well-Known Member
Very interesting stuff, makes me appreciate the bounty of sources we have for brewing in the US. Hope it all works out, your beer sounds crazy but hopefully tasty, too.
After letting sit in the agar for a week I took the plates out and examined them, the black specks that abound are not infections but just pieces of ground barley that were part of the agar solution.
Petri A appeared to be completely colonized by yeast. I was tty surprised by this!
Petri B is almost the exact opposite. It only had two spots of yeast on the entire try. One was growing along with the black fungus so I took a sample from the isolated colony.
Petri C is heavily contaminated but has a clear section of only yeast. I took my sample from this part of the agar of-course.
Petri D only had a single microbial colony visible in the entire tray. Luckily, it was yeast-looking.
Petri E had a mix of black fungus and yeasts. I took a sample from an isolated yeast colony.
To extract the colonies I decided that the most sterile solution would be to use syringes; one plate, one syringe.
Because of my being a complete noob, I was not anticipating the heavy viscosity of the agar. It turns out that sucking yeast colonies off of agar while staring through Saran wrap is not as easy as I had thought.
Eventually, I had the idea to suck a bit of the sterilized starter liquid out from the test tube and shoot a bit on top of the yeast colony. I then sucked it back into the syringe and injected it into the starter tube. This worked pretty well but was hard to contain and prevent contamination from neighbouring colonies.
Finishing up, they were taken from the glove box and the starters were placed under the radiator.
Tonight is the second night and this finally appeared:
A tiny pink krausen has formed on one of the vials and another vial is showing signs of starting up.
Next week, I will use five syringes to suck a sample from each vial before opening. I will then open the vials and smell/taste test the product. The winner or winners will then move on to the next round;
Re-streaking onto agar and moving on to a real starter.
Petri A appeared to be completely colonized by yeast. I was tty surprised by this!
Petri B is almost the exact opposite. It only had two spots of yeast on the entire try. One was growing along with the black fungus so I took a sample from the isolated colony.
Petri C is heavily contaminated but has a clear section of only yeast. I took my sample from this part of the agar of-course.
Petri D only had a single microbial colony visible in the entire tray. Luckily, it was yeast-looking.
Petri E had a mix of black fungus and yeasts. I took a sample from an isolated yeast colony.
To extract the colonies I decided that the most sterile solution would be to use syringes; one plate, one syringe.
Because of my being a complete noob, I was not anticipating the heavy viscosity of the agar. It turns out that sucking yeast colonies off of agar while staring through Saran wrap is not as easy as I had thought.
Eventually, I had the idea to suck a bit of the sterilized starter liquid out from the test tube and shoot a bit on top of the yeast colony. I then sucked it back into the syringe and injected it into the starter tube. This worked pretty well but was hard to contain and prevent contamination from neighbouring colonies.
Finishing up, they were taken from the glove box and the starters were placed under the radiator.
Tonight is the second night and this finally appeared:
A tiny pink krausen has formed on one of the vials and another vial is showing signs of starting up.
Next week, I will use five syringes to suck a sample from each vial before opening. I will then open the vials and smell/taste test the product. The winner or winners will then move on to the next round;
Re-streaking onto agar and moving on to a real starter.
ValleyBrew
Well-Known Member
Wow, this is very interesting. Perhaps the mods could consider moving this to the yeast forum... This seems to go way beyond beginner and you may get some more help/insight from the guys that know yeast the best...
Thats alot of work for the love of beer, my friend. Hope it works out for you! I will be revising my hop garden this spring- pm your address to me and I can try to ship a couple rhizomes to you. I can even send a couple different varietys. I would be interested to find out how they would develop in china! Brew on!
arcadiaacres
Member
What you're attempting is fascinating & I look forward to reading about your progress and ultimate success. I read an article in the Wall Street Journal a few days ago about the growth of micro-breweries in China that people following this thread may enjoy. Hopefully, you can follow this link: http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2012/02/21/beijing-brews-up-craft-beers/
If not, I'll send you the text as a pm.
Also, my wife had her spleen removed 30 years ago. If you're interested, I can pm you with more info about what we've learned in regards to life post-splenectomy.
Good lick with your Mad Scientist Homebrew!!
If not, I'll send you the text as a pm.
Also, my wife had her spleen removed 30 years ago. If you're interested, I can pm you with more info about what we've learned in regards to life post-splenectomy.
Good lick with your Mad Scientist Homebrew!!
You don't really have to pick up the whole colony. Just touch a flame-sterilized loop (or the syringe tip) to it and swirl it around in your culture tube.
Nice job isolating colonies! Do you have access to a microscope?
Nice job isolating colonies! Do you have access to a microscope?
JohnTheBrewist
Well-Known Member
How much beer do you plan to make for your first batch? If you're willing to go through all that work to make it happen, I'd be happy to send you a couple ounces of hops. You can PM me your address and what kind of hops you'd like, and I'll donate them to your cause (assuming my LHBS has them). I have Hallertau and Spalter on hand, but I'll gladly pick up whatever kind you want (2-4 ounces anyway).
BTW, my son will be doing research at the Universities in Tianjin and in Beijing this summer. Unfortunately since its his first trip, he'd probably be a little nervous about bringing brewing ingredients with him.
BTW, my son will be doing research at the Universities in Tianjin and in Beijing this summer. Unfortunately since its his first trip, he'd probably be a little nervous about bringing brewing ingredients with him.
ValleyBrew,
Yeah, it has me reading more about brewing science daily. There are so many new ideas that keep coming to my mind. The hardest part is restraining myself. As I am a beginner, I feel this sub-forum is appropriate. Maybe my results, if iteresting, will inspire some other mad scientists lurking around out there to get into brewing.
Tinman1,
That sounds great! Perhaps, I could send some of yeast that I ultimately collect back to you in return if you are interested. Also, I am trying to get hold of Monascus purpureus. Basically, anything that I could send back to you in return, just tell me and it is yours. That includes any trivial Chinese stuff you might be interested in acquiring.
Arcadiaacres,
The link wanted me to subscribe before being able to read anything. I would be interested in reading what it had to say though. I would also really like to hear about how things have been since your wife's splenectomy.
On Friday, we will go to the hospital for a check-up. We don't even know if they gave her the standard vaccinations yet.
ScoRas,
Next time, I will try to do it that way. The reason I thought it needed to be drawn into the needle was because I was injecting it through the rubber stop. I was afraid that the rubber would drag the yeast off while it was being inoculated.
Once things get settled, there will definitely be a decent fluorescent compound microscope sitting around here some-place. For now, there are too many bills and such popping up.
JohnTheBrewist,
I plan to brew fifteen gallons, spreading it out in two-and-a-half gallon carboys. There is a place in Beijing which has Saaz pellets so I should be fine for now. I haven't been able to find Fuggle though.
What will your son be researching? If he needs help finding some places to socialize, I can give him my number and introduce him to the local expat scene. There are a lot of bars and cafes around here that are popular amongst foreigners.
Yeah, it has me reading more about brewing science daily. There are so many new ideas that keep coming to my mind. The hardest part is restraining myself. As I am a beginner, I feel this sub-forum is appropriate. Maybe my results, if iteresting, will inspire some other mad scientists lurking around out there to get into brewing.
Tinman1,
That sounds great! Perhaps, I could send some of yeast that I ultimately collect back to you in return if you are interested. Also, I am trying to get hold of Monascus purpureus. Basically, anything that I could send back to you in return, just tell me and it is yours. That includes any trivial Chinese stuff you might be interested in acquiring.
Arcadiaacres,
The link wanted me to subscribe before being able to read anything. I would be interested in reading what it had to say though. I would also really like to hear about how things have been since your wife's splenectomy.
On Friday, we will go to the hospital for a check-up. We don't even know if they gave her the standard vaccinations yet.
ScoRas,
Next time, I will try to do it that way. The reason I thought it needed to be drawn into the needle was because I was injecting it through the rubber stop. I was afraid that the rubber would drag the yeast off while it was being inoculated.
Once things get settled, there will definitely be a decent fluorescent compound microscope sitting around here some-place. For now, there are too many bills and such popping up.
JohnTheBrewist,
I plan to brew fifteen gallons, spreading it out in two-and-a-half gallon carboys. There is a place in Beijing which has Saaz pellets so I should be fine for now. I haven't been able to find Fuggle though.
What will your son be researching? If he needs help finding some places to socialize, I can give him my number and introduce him to the local expat scene. There are a lot of bars and cafes around here that are popular amongst foreigners.
CourtHouseBrewing
Well-Known Member
Xier,
You are an inspiration to me and I’m sure for many. I would love to collect wild yeast and see what it does for the beer in a side by side comparison. The fact that your resolve is so strong to overcome so many obstacles and still keep going is a tribute to you. I do hope your wife is doing better and your financial worries leave you like the leaves on a fall tree. Please keep the updates coming I so look forward to your comments and pictures. Be well.
You are an inspiration to me and I’m sure for many. I would love to collect wild yeast and see what it does for the beer in a side by side comparison. The fact that your resolve is so strong to overcome so many obstacles and still keep going is a tribute to you. I do hope your wife is doing better and your financial worries leave you like the leaves on a fall tree. Please keep the updates coming I so look forward to your comments and pictures. Be well.
CourtHouseBrewing,
That was stirring, thank you for your kind words. My wife is in-fact getting better by the day. She said, just this afternoon, that she felt as though nothing had even happened. As for the yeast, wait till you see what I have in-store now!
Considering that I am malting my own barley, I figured that my malt enzyme count was most likely wanting. In addition to this, the heavy dose of flaked wheat, flaked oats, roasted barley and peanuts will readily use up whatever alpha-amylase that is produced.
The solution seemed to be the addition of some external source of alpha-amylase. In keeping with my bright range of purples and reds, I decided to use a fungus by the name of Monascus purpureus to add this extra dose of enzymes into the mix.
After much searching, it seems I have found what I was looking for:
What you see here is known as red yeast rice. It is simply white rice that has been fermented with the mould mentioned above.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389172310002434
As the study states; Monascus purpureus, when placed around 35 degrees Celsius, exhibits strong cell growth. When the temperature is then dropped to 25 degrees Celsius, its alpha-amylase production experiences an 1800% increase.
My idea is to malt the pale ale part of my grain bill, as best I can. Then, the remaining ingredients will be placed onto the radiator, save the peanuts, to fermented with this fungus. It will then be moved to a cooler part of the house. After that, they will be dried once more and stored in the refrigerator to prevent further fermentation. Finally, they will be used in mashing as if they were regular malts or adjuncts, added to the boil in order to kill off all of the Monascus purpureus and activate the amylase.
To insure viability, the Monascus purpureus will be cultured and then spread unto new white rice to build up the initial culture for inoculation usage.
I was not too careful with drawing the culture into the syringe, considering the source and all. I was, however, quite careful when streaking the agar plates.
Once the colony takes foot, pictures of its growth will be uploaded. That is, of-course, if the original sample is still viable. If not, the search continues.
Edit: Please note that the red colours of the red yeast rice solution and of the previous starter vials are not related. After reading through this thread, I noticed how they look very similar and realized that some might make the mistake of thinking that they were related. This is not the case.
That was stirring, thank you for your kind words. My wife is in-fact getting better by the day. She said, just this afternoon, that she felt as though nothing had even happened. As for the yeast, wait till you see what I have in-store now!
Considering that I am malting my own barley, I figured that my malt enzyme count was most likely wanting. In addition to this, the heavy dose of flaked wheat, flaked oats, roasted barley and peanuts will readily use up whatever alpha-amylase that is produced.
The solution seemed to be the addition of some external source of alpha-amylase. In keeping with my bright range of purples and reds, I decided to use a fungus by the name of Monascus purpureus to add this extra dose of enzymes into the mix.
After much searching, it seems I have found what I was looking for:
What you see here is known as red yeast rice. It is simply white rice that has been fermented with the mould mentioned above.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389172310002434
As the study states; Monascus purpureus, when placed around 35 degrees Celsius, exhibits strong cell growth. When the temperature is then dropped to 25 degrees Celsius, its alpha-amylase production experiences an 1800% increase.
My idea is to malt the pale ale part of my grain bill, as best I can. Then, the remaining ingredients will be placed onto the radiator, save the peanuts, to fermented with this fungus. It will then be moved to a cooler part of the house. After that, they will be dried once more and stored in the refrigerator to prevent further fermentation. Finally, they will be used in mashing as if they were regular malts or adjuncts, added to the boil in order to kill off all of the Monascus purpureus and activate the amylase.
To insure viability, the Monascus purpureus will be cultured and then spread unto new white rice to build up the initial culture for inoculation usage.
I was not too careful with drawing the culture into the syringe, considering the source and all. I was, however, quite careful when streaking the agar plates.
Once the colony takes foot, pictures of its growth will be uploaded. That is, of-course, if the original sample is still viable. If not, the search continues.
Edit: Please note that the red colours of the red yeast rice solution and of the previous starter vials are not related. After reading through this thread, I noticed how they look very similar and realized that some might make the mistake of thinking that they were related. This is not the case.
CourtHouseBrewing
Well-Known Member
My question is, if I understand the link I read.
Are you worried about the PH of the mash will make the α-amylase unstable? This is the part I read and thought might be an issue, just not sure. Quote from link: (Characterization of the purified enzymes revealed that α-amylase was unstable at acidic pH and less resistant to heat) I am truly glued to this thread. Thank you so much for the time and trouble you go through to show and talk about it.
Be well.
CourtHouseBrewing,
I had figured that by unstable it meant the alpha-amylase would be more prone to reacting with the starches and breaking them down into simpler sugars. In chemistry, the terms reactive and unstable are often interchanged, though it is considered bad practice. At-least, I hope that to be the case. I really have no idea.
Like I've said, I have been waiting my whole life for a chance to jump into microbiology, chemistry and just science in general. For all the interest that you feel, I guarantee that mine is ten fold. I wake up every day eager to see how these little experiments have progressed. Being able to document my adventures into the world of brew-science and share it with all of you, well, it is a great feeling to say the least. I will try my best to insure that my progress lives up to your enthusiasm, as well as my own!
Take care
I had figured that by unstable it meant the alpha-amylase would be more prone to reacting with the starches and breaking them down into simpler sugars. In chemistry, the terms reactive and unstable are often interchanged, though it is considered bad practice. At-least, I hope that to be the case. I really have no idea.
Like I've said, I have been waiting my whole life for a chance to jump into microbiology, chemistry and just science in general. For all the interest that you feel, I guarantee that mine is ten fold. I wake up every day eager to see how these little experiments have progressed. Being able to document my adventures into the world of brew-science and share it with all of you, well, it is a great feeling to say the least. I will try my best to insure that my progress lives up to your enthusiasm, as well as my own!
Take care
So, I went out and bought the carboys!
They are one-hundred percent glass, faucets and all, and absolutely stunning.
Unfortunately, they are not auto-clavable. That means, I will have to use chemicals to clean them, in-place of heat. It also means that I will have to cool my wort before putting it into the carboys.
See here for details of my solution to that problem:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/modifying-stock-pot-mash-cooling-illustrations-308654/
None-the-less, they are great little carboys. Each one is 10 liters or approximately 2.6 Gallons. They seal by using roughened glass. Basically, the places where they need to be secure are textured to prevent seepage. They came with glass lids but, as I will need to modify their caps, I bought large rubber stops to use instead.
:fro:
They are one-hundred percent glass, faucets and all, and absolutely stunning.
Unfortunately, they are not auto-clavable. That means, I will have to use chemicals to clean them, in-place of heat. It also means that I will have to cool my wort before putting it into the carboys.
See here for details of my solution to that problem:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/modifying-stock-pot-mash-cooling-illustrations-308654/
None-the-less, they are great little carboys. Each one is 10 liters or approximately 2.6 Gallons. They seal by using roughened glass. Basically, the places where they need to be secure are textured to prevent seepage. They came with glass lids but, as I will need to modify their caps, I bought large rubber stops to use instead.
:fro:
TinTurtle
Active Member
Contact me, you can send me a PM. I am in Beijing and we just started a homebrew club here. We have access to the ingredients, equipment etc. Good luck, I need to make the train ride down to Tianjin some weekend, maybe we can hook up.
Lots of beers in Beijing. If you make it up this way let me know.
Lots of beers in Beijing. If you make it up this way let me know.
TinTurtle
Active Member
Let me know where you got these. We are still trying to source glass carboys locally. Plastic is not a problem, they are everywhere, but glass would be nice. And the smaller size is appealing for some other things as well (like black rice wine).
Harlond,
Thanks, they have huge mouths as well. My wife can stick her arm down in there for cleaning with no problem! (I could probably fit mine too, but hey, I don't want her to know that!)
TinTurtle,
That sounds great. Maybe if I could get some of my friends together on it, we could start a homebrew club here in Tianjin.
Eventually, I have to get back to the U.S. embassy in Beijing to finish paperwork. When that happens, I will send you a message and let you know. It'd be great to meet some other enthusiasts and go see the scene there.
You can find carboys like these at a science supply shop. You might have to request it from a catalogue of theirs. If that is the case, you just call in advance and they'll get it within a day. If you don't have any luck, let me know. I could always bring a few dozen or so up that way if I could get enough out of it to cover my travel expenses and such.
By the way, what sort of hop selection does your group have access to so far? Perhaps, you could recommend a place for me to buy some.
Thanks, they have huge mouths as well. My wife can stick her arm down in there for cleaning with no problem! (I could probably fit mine too, but hey, I don't want her to know that!)
TinTurtle,
That sounds great. Maybe if I could get some of my friends together on it, we could start a homebrew club here in Tianjin.
Eventually, I have to get back to the U.S. embassy in Beijing to finish paperwork. When that happens, I will send you a message and let you know. It'd be great to meet some other enthusiasts and go see the scene there.
You can find carboys like these at a science supply shop. You might have to request it from a catalogue of theirs. If that is the case, you just call in advance and they'll get it within a day. If you don't have any luck, let me know. I could always bring a few dozen or so up that way if I could get enough out of it to cover my travel expenses and such.
By the way, what sort of hop selection does your group have access to so far? Perhaps, you could recommend a place for me to buy some.
So, this is just a quick update as to the yeast harvesting.
I used syringes to extract yeast samples from each of the five test tubes and then proceeded to open them up. Well, they seem to have soured. The taste wasn't vinegar so I don't suspect acetobacter. It was just an unpleasant sour, like stagnant water.
Luckily, there was one that did smell alcoholic and somewhat strange. It had a very interesting and funky smell. I was almost skunk-like, in a pleasant way. So, I streaked the syringe sample onto agar and let it sit on the radiator for a couple days.
Today, I took a look and there were several yeast colonies growing. I made a little wort-like substance using malt, roasted barley, black rice and a pinch of sugar and sterilized it in the pressure cooker, stored in the test tubes again.
After inoculating the vials, I gave the agar a wiff. The smell was great. It had such a funky and yeasty smell. I think that I have found a keeper here!
:fro:
I used syringes to extract yeast samples from each of the five test tubes and then proceeded to open them up. Well, they seem to have soured. The taste wasn't vinegar so I don't suspect acetobacter. It was just an unpleasant sour, like stagnant water.
Luckily, there was one that did smell alcoholic and somewhat strange. It had a very interesting and funky smell. I was almost skunk-like, in a pleasant way. So, I streaked the syringe sample onto agar and let it sit on the radiator for a couple days.
Today, I took a look and there were several yeast colonies growing. I made a little wort-like substance using malt, roasted barley, black rice and a pinch of sugar and sterilized it in the pressure cooker, stored in the test tubes again.
After inoculating the vials, I gave the agar a wiff. The smell was great. It had such a funky and yeasty smell. I think that I have found a keeper here!
:fro:
CourtHouseBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yea for the good guys!
My wife wants to make bread from wild yeast so do let me know how this turns out. I would love to brew a beer with wild yeast then let her use the spent grains and wild yeast cake for a matching bread. Love this hobby. Take care
bronzdragon
Well-Known Member
This is really interesting. Good on you. I hope you end up with a good beer, and method that you can refine and make it easier on yourself in the future.
Thanks for chronicling it for us.
~rc~
Thanks for chronicling it for us.
~rc~
Cordane
Well-Known Member
Subscribed. This is fantastic!
Just found this thread and read it all the way through. PLEASE keep us updated as you go along. Fascinating stuff!! :rockin:
Just found this thread and read it all the way through. PLEASE keep us updated as you go along. Fascinating stuff!! :rockin:
Bronzdragon, Cordane:
Thank you for the encouragement! I will keep posting updates as they happen.
For today, I would like to share some pictures!
Here is the medium I prepared before sterilizing and inoculating it. It was a mixture of malt, semi-roasted barley and some black rice. The black rice was not put in till the end and it only imparted a bit of its purple colour. It actually made it pretty reddish.
After letting it ferment for around five days, I decided to cold crash it in my refrigerator. The yeast is starting to drop out and I guess that technically this could even be considered my first ale, yahoo for me! There were originally four containers but I opened one a few days ago. It was the least active looking of the bunch and I decided that for that reason alone it wouldn't be the one chosen to progress to the next stage.
The taste was amazing, it had tasting notes of smoked wood for a barbecue and funkiness. The carbonation was present and it just seemed wonderful, except for the terrible thickness of it.
But, as you can see, the proteins and yeast are dropping. In their wake is a clearer peach coloured liquid. Soon enough, I will be able to able to sample the test and choose the one to continue to the next round:
Making real starters!
:rockin:
Thank you for the encouragement! I will keep posting updates as they happen.
For today, I would like to share some pictures!
Here is the medium I prepared before sterilizing and inoculating it. It was a mixture of malt, semi-roasted barley and some black rice. The black rice was not put in till the end and it only imparted a bit of its purple colour. It actually made it pretty reddish.
After letting it ferment for around five days, I decided to cold crash it in my refrigerator. The yeast is starting to drop out and I guess that technically this could even be considered my first ale, yahoo for me! There were originally four containers but I opened one a few days ago. It was the least active looking of the bunch and I decided that for that reason alone it wouldn't be the one chosen to progress to the next stage.
The taste was amazing, it had tasting notes of smoked wood for a barbecue and funkiness. The carbonation was present and it just seemed wonderful, except for the terrible thickness of it.
But, as you can see, the proteins and yeast are dropping. In their wake is a clearer peach coloured liquid. Soon enough, I will be able to able to sample the test and choose the one to continue to the next round:
Making real starters!
:rockin:
Great thread. Thanks for sharing all of this.
buzzbean
Active Member
wow keep up the good work. I see the beginnings of a Tianjin Micro Brewery. Maybe in the old foreign sector with all the different architectural styles! Since your beer blends east and west your pub should too!
Cheers!
Cheers!
brettamuss
Well-Known Member
Talk about diving in head first! Pretty awsome man!
I just hope it is a good beer that I am diving into! But, yeah, it is my pleasure to document all of this on here and have people interested in it.
Actually, I have been thinking of opening a little LHBS/brewery/restaurant with one of my friends here. Of-course, that wouldn't be for another year or till I have gotten the hang of brewing. For the time being, it will be nice just to finish this first attempt!
Actually, I have been thinking of opening a little LHBS/brewery/restaurant with one of my friends here. Of-course, that wouldn't be for another year or till I have gotten the hang of brewing. For the time being, it will be nice just to finish this first attempt!
CourtHouseBrewing
Well-Known Member
Great to see you are making it to the next round Xier.
How is the equipment coming along?
Can't wait to see you brewing.
Be well.
How is the equipment coming along?
Can't wait to see you brewing.
Be well.
zacjack
Well-Known Member
Very cool project. Subscribed for sure, keep up the great work.
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