My electric brewery build

[MadGus]

After four years of small batch homebrewing, and reading many threads on HBT, I've decided to take the plunge and build my "once in a lifetime" electric 1/2 bbl build.

For starters, here's the "old" system. 9 Gallon stainless boil kettle with turkey fry burner, ~70 quart cooler for mashtun and a 7 gal stainless fermenter.

Pics are from a bourbon barrel porter I brewed about eight weeks ago... I'm having one while I type this up! ipe:

 

[EricR]

You may have had one too many, there are no pictures in this thread!

 

[MadGus]

That's disappointing... I uploaded them through HBT, and can see them when I look at the thread. Sure I'm missing something simple here.

 

[MadGus]

Here are a few pics of the brewstand build. Obviously, this is another Kal-clone build.

 

[Tinga]

looks great so far.

 

[MadGus]

Here's the first element box, for the HLT... btw, despite the 240V/30A marking on the wall, I ended up having a 50A breaker in the main panel, a 50A GFCI spa sub-panel, and a 50A range plug installed.

The 30A GFCI breaker was $164, which would have made it just as expensive as running 6GA + sub-panel + range plug. So... while I'm planning to only pull 23.9A for now (standard 30A Kal setup with 5500W element in HLT and BK and two 809 pumps), this will be able to be upgraded in the future...

Or, when I sell my house, the next owner could put a second range in the garage.

 

[MadGus]

Here's what I built while the Redskins took a beating from the Steelers yesterday.

[ame]http://youtu.be/FYkNTCm47oI[/ame]

 

[EricR]

There we go, now I can see! Looks great, Madgus. I wish I was confident enough to build one of these bad boys.

 

[rockinmarty]

Sub, great build:rockin:

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Subbed........I'm in too! Doing a similar build, but a little smaller capacity. Looks fantastic so far. Keep up the great work, I'll be following along stealing your ideas.

 

[Ajgeo]

Looks good! What kettles are those? Concord?

 

[63belair]

Sub'd, looking good so far!

 

[MadGus]

Ajgeo - Got them on ebay. Here's a link to a current auction from the seller I purchased from...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100-QT-.../190745925567?pt=Cookware&hash=item2c6957d7bf

 

[SavoryChef]

Very nice. I will be following since i have 25 gallon pots and want to go electric. If you can hurry up within the next week, I can get mine started.

 

[MadGus]

SavoryChef - I'm aiming to brew on the system on Christmas Day. This is going to be a weekend project (with a nice push at the end of the year, when I take the last two weeks as vacation.)

Within the next two weeks, I plan to have the kettles, stand and pumps done... Control panel is going to take some time, and I'm still a bit on the fence on whether to buy one from Kal or not.

I know I'll learn a ton, building it myself, but that will make it a longer/slower project.

Thoughts on build versus buy for CP??

 

[P-J]

SavoryChef - I'm aiming to brew on the system on Christmas Day. This is going to be a weekend project (with a nice push at the end of the year, when I take the last two weeks as vacation.)

Within the next two weeks, I plan to have the kettles, stand and pumps done... Control panel is going to take some time, and I'm still a bit on the fence on whether to buy one from Kal or not.

I know I'll learn a ton, building it myself, but that will make it a longer/slower project.

Thoughts on build versus buy for CP??

Design & build it yourself. You will not regret it. Plus you will save $'s and have it function your way.

Just Saying...
P-J

 

[Hoppopotomus]

I'm having a similar dilema. I'm at a similar stage in my build and continue to have a very hard time pulling the trigger on Kal's panel....simply from a cost perspective. This was supposed to be a hobby and although it has turned more into an obsession, $1500 for an unassemble control panel is a huge investment. Kal's panel is top notch and an absolute work of art. I live in North Oakland County, the automotive capital of the world, and have shown his panel to several of my patients who are electrical engineers that work on system controls for the auto assembly plants. They all agree that Kal's panel is very meticulously designed with sound components. They also feel that when all is considered, the price isn't out of line either.

I have absolutely no background in electronic control systems and although I am comfortable with basic household circuitry and wiring, this type of a build feels totally overwhelming for me to handle independently. I have a neighbor that is an EE who would help me assemble Kal's panel, but asking him to help me design, source parts, and assemble a panel from scratch is asking waaaaaay too much. If I was an absolute genius in this field like PJ (BTW...Thanks for your help in the past with my temp. controllers PJ!), then it would be a no brainer and I'd design and build it myself. Unfortunately that is not the case, so I'm stuck! I also have a couple of other patients that feel as though this could be controlled with an Arduino microprocessing system with some relays, etc. for a fraction of the cost. I have no background in system controls OR programming, so again, I keep going back to Kal's panel as my most viable option.

I have been obsessing over what to do for several months and am still very torn......sorry to hijack MadGus.

 

[P-J]

I'm having a similar dilema.
...

I hear you loud and clear. I have drawn a few hundred diagrams using Auber Instruments PIDs and accessories. Easy to build and easy to control all of the functions. (And not all that expensive either.)

If you have a plan, perhaps I might be able to help.

P-J

 

[MadGus]

No stress, Hoppo. We're both trying to solve the same thing. I haven't sourced any parts for my CP yet, as I seem to have "analysis paralysis." I'm going to spend some time over the next few days, thinking about the details of the brew process that I want to have, and see if that creates any clarity for my "automation" needs.

P-J... appreciate your perspective very much on this, as someone who has helped many on this board.

 

[MadGus]

Did some thinking and research on control panel this week, and have found two options (neither of which is quite right??). Looking for thoughts/input, here please (P-J).

OPTION #1: Interested in thoughts on the kit below, from ebrewsupply.com. Seems that for $557, I can get most of the parts (no PIDs, no wire) for a 50A, two element back to back panel.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/index.php/ebrew-kits/ebrew-pid-kits/pid-2-element-2-pumps-50a-kit.html

Two problems I see with this:

1) I'm not interested in running 4500W elements in my kettles (already purchased 5500W elements, and have no intention of brewing back to back batches)
2) The wiring schematic on their website doesn't have any #6 wire in the plan... #10 is the largest. Not sure if that's appropriate with 50A service coming into the panel?

OPTION #2: Subscribed to Rickochet's thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/wiring-diagrams-365034/), as his setup looks very similar to what I'm interested in. Again, I don't want to design the panel for back to back batches at this point (despite having 50A service which could handle it, if I downsized my elements to 4500W each).

 

[MadGus]

Should have posted this before my previous one. Here's what I'm currently thinking about as design "requirements."

50A 240V spa panel to 50A range plug
5500W element in HLT and in BK
no back to back batches
2 or 3 PIDs and a timer (no BCS setup)

 

[P-J]

Should have posted this before my previous one. Here's what I'm currently thinking about as design "requirements."

50A 240V spa panel to 50A range plug
5500W element in HLT and in BK
no back to back batches
2 or 3 PIDs and a timer (no BCS setup)

There are 2 diagrams on the page with this link that might be the design the you are after:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/2-pid-50a-control-panel-design-check-337782/index2.html#post4280031

I hope it helps you.

P-J

 

[MadGus]

You rock! Thanks, P-J.

 

[MadGus]

Amazing how much less stress punching holes in the second kettle causes versus the first!

Knocked out the BK in about two hours this afternoon. Only two holes, 30 minute leak test, and silicone around outside of heating element.

Ordered two stainless hinges from amazon today, so MLT is next!

 

[usfmikeb]

Gus - had no idea you were a brewer, Brian forwarded along to me. Let's catch up one of these days when I'm in Richmond.

Mike (your finance guy)

 

[MadGus]

Stained the stand this weekend, added all of the male disconnects to pumps, HLT and BK valves. Received sight glasses and silicone tubing from brewhardware.com (thanks, Bobby!), and will be installing those either this afternoon, or next weekend.

Pretty sure I've landed on buying a 2 PID 50A control panel kit from ebrewsupply.com (Ryan was very helpful with answering my questions about kit contents).

So... I'm still hoping to be up and running by Christmas. Waiting on my stainless hinges to arrive, so that I can begin to punch holes in the MLT and build the false bottom.

 

[Hoppopotomus]

Man....that look nice! Keep up the great work. :rockin:

 

[MadGus]

OK - I've placed the following order from Auberins.com:

3 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control) Item # SYL-2352
3 Liquid tight RTD, 2 in, 1/4 NPT Deluxe Cable Item # PT100-L50NPT
2 40A SSR Item # MGR-1D4840
1 Easy Timer with Dual Settings Item # JSL-71

And am about ready to order the following kit from ebrewsupply.com:

8 - LEDs (2 white 220v, 2 blue 110v, 2 yellow 110v, 1 red 110v, 1 green 220v)
1 - Buzzer
1 - 15a 1-Pole DIN Rail Breaker
2 - 25a 2-Pole DIN Rail Breakers
1 - Emergency Stop locking push button with NC Contact
1 - Extra No contact for E-Stop
6 - 2-Way Switches with 1 NO Contact
1 - 3-Way Switch with 2 NO Contacts
1 - Key toggle Switch for panel on/off
4 - 40a Contactors w/ 110v Coils (1 ea for elements, 2 for control panel main power)
2 - 40a Solid State Relays for PID control of elements, includes heatsink
1 meter of DIN rail, cut in 1/3s
25 - Terminal Blocks for wire from 6-24 awg
8 - Terminal block anchoring ends
4 - Terminal block end covers
4 - Terminal block seperators
3 - Terminal block connecting bridge pieces
1 - Wiring diagram with our recommended design
1 - 16x16x8 encousure
2 - L5-15 twistlock outlets
2 - L6-30 twistlock outlets
1 - large heatsink (drilled & tapped)

So, with all of these parts, I'm thinking about the following design (P-J, would you be willing to work some of your wire diagram magic on this?)...

5500W element in HLT and in BK (3 way switch to choose which pot to put heat to)
2 40A contactors for main panel power supply (1 on each hot leg)
2 40A contactors for elements (1 for each element)
4 40A SSRs (1 for each leg of each element)
3 PIDs (SYL-2352s; MLT will be for temp monitoring only)
1 timer (JSL-71)

Haven't sourced the parts for this one last thing, but I really like the idea of Kal's safe start interlock as well...

Lastly, I will build a 6#/4 power wire for the control panel main power line (50A service with spa pack GFCI already run).

 

[P-J]

Gus (don't be mad),

I read your post first thing this morning and am still trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing. (See highlighted text in your post.)

Please hold off on your order with ebrewsupply.com until I have (at least) a little understanding of your overall plan. I'm still trying to figure out the whole thing and wrap my mind around what you are trying to achieve.. The wiring plan from ebrewsupply.com is very difficult to follow and a little ???

(However if you are wanting to go for it. Oh well.)

P-J

OK - I've placed the following order from Auberins.com:

3 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control) Item # SYL-2352
3 Liquid tight RTD, 2 in, 1/4 NPT Deluxe Cable Item # PT100-L50NPT
2 40A SSR Item # MGR-1D4840
1 Easy Timer with Dual Settings Item # JSL-71

And am about ready to order the following kit from ebrewsupply.com:

8 - LEDs (2 white 220v, 2 blue 110v, 2 yellow 110v, 1 red 110v, 1 green 220v)
1 - Buzzer
1 - 15a 1-Pole DIN Rail Breaker
2 - 25a 2-Pole DIN Rail Breakers
1 - Emergency Stop locking push button with NC Contact
1 - Extra No contact for E-Stop
6 - 2-Way Switches with 1 NO Contact
1 - 3-Way Switch with 2 NO Contacts
1 - Key toggle Switch for panel on/off
4 - 40a Contactors w/ 110v Coils (1 ea for elements, 2 for control panel main power)
2 - 40a Solid State Relays for PID control of elements, includes heatsink
1 meter of DIN rail, cut in 1/3s
25 - Terminal Blocks for wire from 6-24 awg
8 - Terminal block anchoring ends
4 - Terminal block end covers
4 - Terminal block seperators
3 - Terminal block connecting bridge pieces
1 - Wiring diagram with our recommended design
1 - 16x16x8 encousure
2 - L5-15 twistlock outlets
2 - L6-30 twistlock outlets
1 - large heatsink (drilled & tapped)

So, with all of these parts, I'm thinking about the following design (P-J, would you be willing to work some of your wire diagram magic on this?)...

5500W element in HLT and in BK (3 way switch to choose which pot to put heat to)
2 40A contactors for main panel power supply (1 on each hot leg)
2 40A contactors for elements (1 for each element)
4 40A SSRs (1 for each leg of each element)
3 PIDs (SYL-2352s; MLT will be for temp monitoring only)
1 timer (JSL-71)

Haven't sourced the parts for this one last thing, but I really like the idea of Kal's safe start interlock as well...

Lastly, I will build a 6#/4 power wire for the control panel main power line (50A service with spa pack GFCI already run).

 

[MadGus]

P-J, I will hold off on the ebrewsupply order. MadGus came from my first all grain brew, which was a clone of Troeg's Mad Elf, btw. I brew it every year, and it's fantastic.

Appreciate and value your help thinking through this.