Mead - the homebrew thread

[mjohnson171]

Listening to the meadmakr podcast and I've heard two professionals (Ken Schramm being one of them) now poop on Fermaid O. DAP and Fermaid K seem to be preferred.

Thoughts Naegerbomb ?

Great question!

The only real difference I know is that Fermaid-O is organic Nitrogen, and that it appears you have to use almost twice as much, but that it's an easier digestible form of Nitrogen for the yeast. But I'm curious to hear what the professionals think. I'll hang up and listen, thanks.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Great question!

The only real difference I know is that Fermaid-O is organic Nitrogen, and that it appears you have to use almost twice as much, but that it's an easier digestible form of Nitrogen for the yeast. But I'm curious to hear what the professionals think. I'll hang up and listen, thanks.

If you haven't listened to the podcast, I'd recommend checking out a few episodes. The approach described by wiltznucs for capturing peanut flavor was pretty interesting. Didn't really have any interest in making a mead with peanuts, but now I feel like I have to try it.

 

[Naegerbomb]

Listening to the meadmakr podcast and I've heard two professionals (Ken Schramm being one of them) now poop on Fermaid O. DAP and Fermaid K seem to be preferred.

Thoughts Naegerbomb ?

Great question!

The only real difference I know is that Fermaid-O is organic Nitrogen, and that it appears you have to use almost twice as much, but that it's an easier digestible form of Nitrogen for the yeast. But I'm curious to hear what the professionals think. I'll hang up and listen, thanks.

So I'm not totally sure what podcast you're talking about - but we use Fermaid O and DAP here at the meadery (so Ken Schramm shouldn't be pooping on Fermaid O). Maybe he was pooping on using "just Fermaid O"?

One reason we use O instead of K is that the TTB has limits on the use of Fermaid K due to something in it called thiamine hydrochloride. Our recipe submissions are just easier if we use Fermaid O (and we're going to use DAP as a source of nitrogen anyway). If you wanted to go totally organic you could just use Fermaid O, but I don't recommend this for flavor and stability reasons.

Probably the most concise and thorough collection of information about nutrients in meadmaking is a white paper written by a guy named Travis Blount-Elliott (/u/balathustrius) who has been very active on /r/mead for many years. His work was the basis for the calculations used by the Meadmakr's own "Advanced Nutrient Calculator", which does a great job I think. If you calculate the PPM of YAN that you need for your recipe, it does a pretty good job of calculating the total weight of Fermaid and DAP that you need (and then you just need to split it according to your own schedule, i.e. number of times to add nutrients and when).

Our nutrient regimen at the meadery follows the recipe in this article pretty well (scaled up a bit) - it was first published in Zymurgy 2/2015. Except we use Fermaid O.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

So I'm not totally sure what podcast you're talking about - but we use Fermaid O and DAP here at the meadery (so Ken Schramm shouldn't be pooping on Fermaid O). Maybe he was pooping on using "just Fermaid O"?

One reason we use O instead of K is that the TTB has limits on the use of Fermaid K due to something in it called thiamine hydrochloride. Our recipe submissions are just easier if we use Fermaid O (and we're going to use DAP as a source of nitrogen anyway). If you wanted to go totally organic you could just use Fermaid O, but I don't recommend this for flavor and stability reasons.

Probably the most concise and thorough collection of information about nutrients in meadmaking is a white paper written by a guy named Travis Blount-Elliott (/u/balathustrius) who has been very active on /r/mead for many years. His work was the basis for the calculations used by the Meadmakr's own "Advanced Nutrient Calculator", which does a great job I think. If you calculate the PPM of YAN that you need for your recipe, it does a pretty good job of calculating the total weight of Fermaid and DAP that you need (and then you just need to split it according to your own schedule, i.e. number of times to add nutrients and when).

Our nutrient regimen at the meadery follows the recipe in this article pretty well (scaled up a bit) - it was first published in Zymurgy 2/2015. Except we use Fermaid O.

Hey James - thanks for responding. I've been listening to a few different podcasts about mead so I went back and found the source which led to my question. Here you go: Beersmith Episode #143 which aired on February 22, 2017.

Around the 46 minute mark, Ken states: 'I'm not as comfortable with using the levels of nutrient that are required if you're going to use Fermaid O. You've got to use a lot of it. That means leaving behind an awful lot of yeast hulls in your liquid that you don't need to have there. The thing that is attractive about DAP is that it's virtually entirely utilized by the yeast. There's nothing left of it when the yeast are done with it.'

I think you're right in that Ken is raising concerns with using 'just' Fermaid O because of the levels you would need. I didn't interpret it that way when I first listened to the podcast.

As always, I appreciate you weighing in and sharing information. I'll check those links out this evening. Trying to sharpen up my knowledge on best practices for fermentation. My next mead project will be 15 gallons of a traditional that's destined for a small bourbon barrel.

 

[Naegerbomb]

Hey James - thanks for responding. I've been listening to a few different podcasts about mead so I went back and found the source which led to my question. Here you go: Beersmith Episode #143 which aired on February 22, 2017.

Around the 46 minute mark, Ken states: 'I'm not as comfortable with using the levels of nutrient that are required if you're going to use Fermaid O. You've got to use a lot of it. That means leaving behind an awful lot of yeast hulls in your liquid that you don't need to have there. The thing that is attractive about DAP is that it's virtually entirely utilized by the yeast. There's nothing left of it when the yeast are done with it.'

I think you're right in that Ken is raising concerns with using 'just' Fermaid O because of the levels you would need. I didn't interpret it that way when I first listened to the podcast.

As always, I appreciate you weighing in and sharing information. I'll check those links out this evening. Trying to sharpen up my knowledge on best practices for fermentation. My next mead project will be 15 gallons of a traditional that's destined for a small bourbon barrel.

Anytime, friend. You can always email me if you have any urgent questions: [email protected] and [email protected]. It's good that you're doing your research before doing a traditional - they are not super forgiving.

What kind of barrel did you get? I've filled a few 15-gallon Journeyman Featherbone barrels this year, they've all been super fun.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Anytime, friend. You can always email me if you have any urgent questions: [email protected] and [email protected]. It's good that you're doing your research before doing a traditional - they are not super forgiving.

What kind of barrel did you get? I've filled a few 15-gallon Journeyman Featherbone barrels this year, they've all been super fun.

Haven't mixed up the musts yet, so haven't sourced a barrel yet. Finding something recently emptied will be the priority. If the mead spends a few more weeks in tertiary while I source something fresh, I won't stress about it.

 

[axeman91821]

Batch #2 (raspberry melomel) and Batch #3 (mango short mead) are bottled and kegged respectively. Up next is an apple pie cyser I think.

 

[RLD]

Made two small batches of mead yesterday. Japanese wineberry and a Red Currant. Both fermented with raw orange blossom honey. Decided to give the SNA Naegerbomb posted a try. First time using Fermaid O.

wineberry mead

 

[Shartelby]

I've never made mead. I've drank a decent amount of it, and I'm interested in giving it a go; considering some of the home-brew equipment can be dual purposed. I want to thank everyone here for all the great info and resources.

The twist: I'd like to make spontaneous mead. I can't find many (if any) resources on this topic. Have any of you tasted, or attempted to make spontaneous mead? Are there resources you can recommend? Also, thoughts/opinions on this would be appreciated as well.

 

[mjohnson171]

I've never made mead. I've drank a decent amount of it, and I'm interested in giving it a go; considering some of the home-brew equipment can be dual purposed. I want to thank everyone here for all the great info and resources.

The twist: I'd like to make spontaneous mead. I can't find many (if any) resources on this topic. Have any of you tasted, or attempted to make spontaneous mead? Are there resources you can recommend? Also, thoughts/opinions on this would be appreciated as well.

I'm not familiar with any resources out there on Spontaneous mead. Have you checked Got Mead?

I've tasted a handful of spontaneous meads, and they've been, for the most part, really good. Four Fires made a spontaneous pyment with some ice wine grapes from around Niagara Falls, which was awesome. Schramms has their Apple Reserve spontaneously fermented, but that was a small batch only available in their taproom.

 

[Shartelby]

I'm not familiar with any resources out there on Spontaneous mead. Have you checked Got Mead?

I've tasted a handful of spontaneous meads, and they've been, for the most part, really good. Four Fires made a spontaneous pyment with some ice wine grapes from around Niagara Falls, which was awesome. Schramms has their Apple Reserve spontaneously fermented, but that was a small batch only available in their taproom.

I hadn't checked out that resource - thanks for the info. I'm planning on a few small-scale batches, to test.

 

[JoeBacillus]

So after months of research and stalking Naegerbomb posts, I finally made my first melomel…..

5ish gallon batch
19# Honey
20# Rasp/Black/Blue berries in primary
16g of ICV-D21 yeast

OG (before berries): 1.140
Degass/PunchDown: every 12 hours.
Ferm Temp: 76-80

Nutrient Style: Travis Blount-Elliott
24 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
48 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
72 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
96 hours: Checked for ⅓ sugar break, but blew right past it...already at 1.024
96 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
9 Days after pitch: Fruit cap dropped
12 Days after pitch: FG 0.990 (!!) bucket smells amazing under the lid!

So the yeast certainly was happy, chose this strain in hopes of getting around temp control, but ended up way drier than expected, going to have to backsweeten...

Hoping to avoid backsweetening in the future, would a few more #s of honey in next iteration of the same recipe accomplish this?

Now that fruit cap has dropped, can I rack it into secondary?

Should I carboy to clear or can I go straight to keg? (low psi, don’t want it carbbed)

What's a mead post without some pics?

 

[jivex5k1]

So after months of research and stalking Naegerbomb posts, I finally made my first melomel…..

5ish gallon batch
19# Honey
20# Rasp/Black/Blue berries in primary
16g of ICV-D21 yeast

OG (before berries): 1.140
Degass/PunchDown: every 12 hours.
Ferm Temp: 76-80

Nutrient Style: Travis Blount-Elliott
24 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
48 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
72 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
96 hours: Checked for ⅓ sugar break, but blew right past it...already at 1.024
96 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
9 Days after pitch: Fruit cap dropped
12 Days after pitch: FG 0.990 (!!) bucket smells amazing under the lid!

So the yeast certainly was happy, chose this strain in hopes of getting around temp control, but ended up way drier than expected, going to have to backsweeten...

Hoping to avoid backsweetening in the future, would a few more #s of honey in next iteration of the same recipe accomplish this?

Now that fruit cap has dropped, can I rack it into secondary?

Should I carboy to clear or can I go straight to keg? (low psi, don’t want it carbbed)

What's a mead post without some pics?

Not bad but I feel like you could have thrown a few more hashtags in your instagram post.

 

[RLD]

I use 4lbs of raw honey "usually orange blossom" in my melomels. I'm guessing there is a few reasons your mead finished pretty dry.. I would recommend switching the yeast to lalvin 71, d47, or a mixture of both. These seem to be the go to yeast by most mead makers on here. If you switch to either of these, I suggest monitoring your fermentation temperatures more closely to avoid fusel alcohols. I ferment my meads around 60-70 degrees. I also think you could cut the amount of Fermaid O and DAP you're using in your SNA by half and still have a happy fermentation.

So after months of research and stalking Naegerbomb posts, I finally made my first melomel…..

5ish gallon batch
19# Honey
20# Rasp/Black/Blue berries in primary
16g of ICV-D21 yeast

OG (before berries): 1.140
Degass/PunchDown: every 12 hours.
Ferm Temp: 76-80

Nutrient Style: Travis Blount-Elliott
24 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
48 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
72 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
96 hours: Checked for ⅓ sugar break, but blew right past it...already at 1.024
96 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
9 Days after pitch: Fruit cap dropped
12 Days after pitch: FG 0.990 (!!) bucket smells amazing under the lid!

So the yeast certainly was happy, chose this strain in hopes of getting around temp control, but ended up way drier than expected, going to have to backsweeten...

Hoping to avoid backsweetening in the future, would a few more #s of honey in next iteration of the same recipe accomplish this?

Now that fruit cap has dropped, can I rack it into secondary?

Should I carboy to clear or can I go straight to keg? (low psi, don’t want it carbbed)

What's a mead post without some pics?

 

[RLD]

^ 4 pounds per gallon haha. Sorry about that.

 

[mjohnson171]

So after months of research and stalking Naegerbomb posts, I finally made my first melomel…..

5ish gallon batch
19# Honey
20# Rasp/Black/Blue berries in primary
16g of ICV-D21 yeast

OG (before berries): 1.140
Degass/PunchDown: every 12 hours.
Ferm Temp: 76-80

Nutrient Style: Travis Blount-Elliott
24 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
48 hours: 4.25g Fermaid O
72 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
96 hours: Checked for ⅓ sugar break, but blew right past it...already at 1.024
96 hours: 4.75g Fermaid K and 5.6g DAP
9 Days after pitch: Fruit cap dropped
12 Days after pitch: FG 0.990 (!!) bucket smells amazing under the lid!

So the yeast certainly was happy, chose this strain in hopes of getting around temp control, but ended up way drier than expected, going to have to backsweeten...

Hoping to avoid backsweetening in the future, would a few more #s of honey in next iteration of the same recipe accomplish this?

Now that fruit cap has dropped, can I rack it into secondary?

Should I carboy to clear or can I go straight to keg? (low psi, don’t want it carbbed)

What's a mead post without some pics?

Yes, more honey, but you've already identified you're issue - your yeast was too happy. Next time different yeast or less nutrients.

 

[Shartelby]

Does anyone have experience with Buckwheat honey? I picked up some at the local farmers market, after tasting a sample. It was so dark, and robust. I am interested in how this would translate to mead. I'm somewhat concerned that this may be too powerful of a flavor, and so I am considering blending in another honey, pre-fermentation. Are there any more simplistic honeys you would recommend that would cut this down (if needed) or would it be okay to use pure Buckwheat honey?

Thanks!

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Does anyone have experience with Buckwheat honey? I picked up some at the local farmers market, after tasting a sample. It was so dark, and robust. I am interested in how this would translate to mead. I'm somewhat concerned that this may be too powerful of a flavor, and so I am considering blending in another honey, pre-fermentation. Are there any more simplistic honeys you would recommend that would cut this down (if needed) or would it be okay to use pure Buckwheat honey?

Thanks!

No personal experience, but:

"James Lallande of Hurst, Texas and member of Cap and Hare Homebrew Club won a gold medal in Category #27: Traditional Mead during the 2016 National Homebrew Competition Final Round in Baltimore, MD. Lallande’s buckwheat mead (sweet, standard, petillant) was chosen as the best among 89 Final Round entries in the category."

 

[mjohnson171]

Does anyone have experience with Buckwheat honey? I picked up some at the local farmers market, after tasting a sample. It was so dark, and robust. I am interested in how this would translate to mead. I'm somewhat concerned that this may be too powerful of a flavor, and so I am considering blending in another honey, pre-fermentation. Are there any more simplistic honeys you would recommend that would cut this down (if needed) or would it be okay to use pure Buckwheat honey?

Thanks!

Buckwheat is an excellent honey for a mead. However you're absolutely right, it's a strong honey that typically translates into a darker, more robust mead with herbal notes, coffee, oak, molasses, and rich malts. I personally like it in a mead, but only when I'm in the mood for something more bold.

Misbeehavin has used buckwheat in a bunch of their meads. They have a traditional call: Buckwheat, which is tasty. They've also used it in some barrel aged meads and it stands up very well to wood. There was an oak-aged strawberry coffee mead they did that used buckwheat and was really tasty.

It's definitely a unique honey and will make an interesting mead. I dig it, it seems most people don't. I say give it a try! If you don't like it you can send bottles my way.

 

[Shartelby]

Buckwheat is an excellent honey for a mead. However you're absolutely right, it's a strong honey that typically translates into a darker, more robust mead with herbal notes, coffee, oak, molasses, and rich malts. I personally like it in a mead, but only when I'm in the mood for something more bold.

Misbeehavin has used buckwheat in a bunch of their meads. They have a traditional call: Buckwheat, which is tasty. They've also used it in some barrel aged meads and it stands up very well to wood. There was an oak-aged strawberry coffee mead they did that used buckwheat and was really tasty.

It's definitely a unique honey and will make an interesting mead. I dig it, it seems most people don't. I say give it a try! If you don't like it you can send bottles my way.

Nice, thanks for the positive motivation. Ill definitely experiment, and let ya know how it goes. I've also got a lot of superb coffee, and I'll keep that in mind for an adjunct that may play nicely.

 

[quirk6]

Brewed a batch of black currant and blackberry mead a while ago, it turned out great. I got excited and started 3 more batches, all of which wound up with plastic-y flavors. I haven't tried it since, but this talk is kind of making want to give it another try.

I decided to try the two plasticy meads that are still sitting in jugs. The cyser still has a hint of plastic, though it is better. The other, and I can no longer remember exactly what it is, no longer tastes like plastic but is oxidized and surprisingly boozy. Not bad, though.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Mixed up 11 gallons of a traditional tonight (split into two 6.5G carboys). Used MeadowMaple honey which screams marshmallow and maple. The honey was expensive as $#!^, but holy moley it smells and tastes so good.

OG came out at 1.130. Mixed 71B and D47 for yeast @ a 2:1 ratio, 6 packets total. Fermenting at 63°. Using Travis Blount-Elliot's SNA schedule.

 

[sliverx]

grabbed this at a farmer's market today, likely going to be a 1 gallon batch soon.

 

[elkhunter36]

Stealing ideas from bigk84 HOD clone recipe. I wanted to do this with all fresh fruit from Wisconsin. Everything is in season now.

10# fresh Door County Montmorency cherries
10# fresh Door County Raspberries
10# fresh Red Currants. We picked these ourselves



and 14# orange blossom honey

We will see how things turn out


Oh and we picked a few gooseberries, wife wanted to make a pie.

 

[Phischy1]

Ok, so I have 1.5L of local honey from a bee keeper. Not sure of exact weight, but wanting to make a 8% mead. Not rocket fuel. Tips? I have a 3 gallon fermenters so how would this volume work into 2.5g?

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Ok, so I have 1.5L of local honey from a bee keeper. Not sure of exact weight, but wanting to make a 8% mead. Not rocket fuel. Tips? I have a 3 gallon fermenters so how would this volume work into 2.5g?

If 1.5 liters of honey weighs about 4.6 lbs, it's just the right amount for a 2.5 gallon batch that finishes close to 8%.

Check out meadmakr.com and use their batch builder. It will give you three options for staggered nutrient additions (SNA) and walk you through when to add in the nutrients and in what amounts. Following the SNA schedule (along with Ferm temp) will help you attain a drinkable mead more quickly without risk of rocketfuel.

Go Ferm Protect, Fermaid O and some DAP are things you should order now if you don't have them already.

 

[RLD]

Mixed up a 6 gallon traditional the other day. 1/2 mesquite honey and 1/2 orange blossom "21# total". Combination of 71b and d47 yeasts.

 

[mjohnson171]

Mixed up a 6 gallon traditional the other day. 1/2 mesquite honey and 1/2 orange blossom "21# total". Combination of 71b and d47 yeasts.

Keep talking dirty to me.

 

[doobiegoobie]

What's the most fruit per gallon yall have used in a melomel? I'm thinking about using 30-40# of red and black raspberries in a 4 gallon batch with probably ~15# of blueberry honey.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

What's the most fruit per gallon yall have used in a melomel? I'm thinking about using 30-40# of red and black raspberries in a 4 gallon batch with probably ~15# of blueberry honey.

20 lbs for five gallons is my max. Will definitely increase next batch...