Mash Out?

[lgtg]

Is it essential\necessary?? How many of you do this? Is there any way this happens through sparging with 180° water? Palmer says that some elect to forego this step? Why is that?

Doing first PM this evening and trying to get my checklist finalized....

 

[david_42]

If you have a precise fermentables profile you are targeting, a mashout is necessary. With a 60 minute mash, it won't matter as there will be very little that hasn't converted.

I don't bother.

 

[Drunkensatyr]

I don't mash out. Once my OG is straight, it goes straight to the kettle. You will hit 175 on the way to the boil. Batch sparging really doesn't require a mash out.

 

[lgtg]

cool, so;

mash in

stir mash

60 minute mash

recirculateX2

1st runs

sparge

stir mash

2nd runs

Sound right?

 

[Drunkensatyr]

Bingo! Sounds like Beer to me.

 

[scohop]

I'm going to try and make my next batch extra sweet. That means I don't want beta-amylase increasing my fermentability in the brew kettle post-mash. So my plan is to run a a short, stiff, hot mash and then mash out at say 175 before I collect first runnings and sparge.

Does this sound right, for those of you who mash out normally?

 

[boo boo]

I kinda agree with Denny when he says that it isn't really nesessary to do a mashout because most people don't keep the mash at mashout temps long enough to do an effective mashout.
In the time you take trying to do a mashout, you could have sparged and heated the wort to a high enough temperture to denature the enzymes in the brew kettle.
I don't mashout, but do add enough hot water to my initial mash before sparging to help sparging.

 

[RichBrewer]

I kinda do a mash out.
I gently pour enough of my sparge liquor into the mash to increase the temp to about 168 degrees. I do this mainly to decrease the viscosity of the liquid in the mash. I figure it makes it easier to rinse the sugars from the grains.

 

[lgtg]

I kinda do a mash out.
I gently pour enough of my sparge liquor into the mash to increase the temp to about 168 degrees. I do this mainly to decrease the viscosity of the liquid in the mash. I figure it makes it easier to rinse the sugars from the grains.

Thanks for that input! Last night I wondered if I screwed my sparge up by pre-heating the water to 180 and then the mash temp stayed at 167 for 5 minutes, I got nervous about tannins and started the sparge quickly. Mash went well though, hit target temp at 156° for 40 of the sixty, end temp at 60 was 150.

Might be off topic but, pre-boil OG at 150° of grain mash only (this was a PM with late boil LME addition) was kinda lower than I expected 1.020....

Boiled, added LME off heat and cooled then measured again at about 75° and hit 1.056....Any thoughts?

(Oatmeal stout)

 

[ajf]

Might be off topic but, pre-boil OG at 150° of grain mash only (this was a PM with late boil LME addition) was kinda lower than I expected 1.020....

Boiled, added LME off heat and cooled then measured again at about 75° and hit 1.056....Any thoughts?

(Oatmeal stout)

Did you stir before taking the pre-boil gravity?

-a.

 

[boo boo]

Depends on the amount of water you used to mash with.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I "mash out" by fly sparging with 180-ish water. True, it's probably not completely effective as a true step to 168-170, but it keeps my mash thin during the sparge and I figure it can't hurt.

 

[lgtg]

Did you stir before taking the pre-boil gravity?

-a.

I'm chalking it up at this point to way high temp and pre extract addition. But still, I thought I would see it at around 40 or 50....OG at pitch was at recipe target, stupid thermometer took a dump during cool down as I forgot it was in there and began to whirlpool and the SS braid like chord (Tru-Temp Digital) took up some wort and wouldn't give a true reading after that.

I was going forward blind from there....

 

[shlap]

I'm chalking it up at this point to way high temp and pre extract addition. But still, I thought I would see it at around 40 or 50....OG at pitch was at recipe target, stupid thermometer took a dump during cool down as I forgot it was in there and began to whirlpool and the SS braid like chord (Tru-Temp Digital) took up some wort and wouldn't give a true reading after that.

I was going forward blind from there....

So.... did you stir before taking the pre-boil gravity? He's asking because if you didn't, the end of your runnings, sitting at the top of the kettle, are usually about 1.020. If you stir it up, you'll see around 1.040 or higher (like I did with my first AG)

 

[Steve973]

Remember that a mashout provides more than just the act of ceasing enzyme activity. It helps dissolve the sugars that you spend so long producing by conversion. Even if you've mashed thin, you can pull off an appropriate amount of wort, boil it, and return it to the mash vessel for ten or fifteen minutes. This will help get the sugars into suspension, and may increase your efficiency. It's easy, so why not give it a try and compare your results?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I pretty much agree with everything here. It's an optional step, but one that I often do (but not always). Depending on the parameters of the mash I often add a boiling water infusion at the end (I can heat the water during the mash, so it doesn't really take extra time) or just run off and boil enough wort to accomplish the same thing.

My main motivation is to increase viscosity and dissolve more sugars (and as an iced tea making southerner who needs to get his tea sweet enough I have a pretty decent grasp of that theory). I haven't ever done any sort of iodine experiment to see if the fermentability profile changed between my first conversion test in the mash tun and the wort in the kettle after runoff, but it would be relatively easy and I'll try it next brewsession.

Note that just because conversion completes doesn't mean the fermentability profile stays the same. After full conversion there is still enzymatic activity (assuming we don't denature the enzymes), primarily resulting in a more fermentable wort. An iodine test can indicate this. IIRC purple/black means starch is still present, reddish mahoganey is converted but not very fermentable, and yellow/no color change is a more fermentable wort.