Mash in Ratio

[churdbird]

When mashing in, what volume of mash in do you use and why. Some use 1.25 qts/# on up. In J.P's How 2 Brew, he recomends using 2 qts/pd. I was thinkind the standard was 1.25-1.33 qt/pd. But why? What will the 1.25 vs. 2qts give that the other wont?
The reason for the question is I have found that in my system and making a small brew. (About #8's of grist) I dont have enough volume to recirculate thru the rims.

 

[Hex]

I use 2 qt per lb. direct heat, mash, so I can stir easily. I'd use the same if running RIMS on my rig.

It all depends on your system and process up to a point where diluting enzymes could possibly become an issue.

Many start with a thick mash, and add water to get step rests--adding hot water to raise mash temp. If they don't start out thick, they will end up with too much water in the wort, up to the point of not being able to sparge the grist.

 

[menschmaschine]

I think the 1.25 "standard" came primarily from British brewing practices.

It's also stated that thick mashes make for a more dextrinous wort and thinner mashes make for a more fermentable wort. And while I believe there is science to back this up, I also think the difference is so miniscule that we don't see anything tangible from it either way.

Also, a thick mash slows the time in which enzymes are denatured. But with the amount of enzymes in today's well-modified malts, that concept isn't a big deal either.

It seems that many homebrewers are steering away from the relatively thick mash of 1.25 qts/lb and moving towards thinner mashes because they are easier to work with. I've done thick and thin and haven't noticed any real difference, so I do thinner mashes now... usually 1.75 to 2.00 qts/lb.

 

[BrewNow]

For my 1st all-grain brew session, I followed Charlie P's recommendation of 1:1 ratio. WAY too thick and difficult to work with, even for a basic batch single-infusion system like I use.

For the last 10 or so batches, I’ve bumped up to ~ 1.15 quart/pound. None of my fermentations have come out a dry as I want, even when holding 145-149F for 60-> 90 minutes. I'm looking for a bone dry IPA. . .

This weekend I plan to bump the ratio to 1.5 quarts/pound for the Arrogant Bastard clone from CYBI.

 

[BendBrewer]

I was told by a home brewer turned Pro when I first started to use 1 qt / 1 pound. It holds the heat better and allows for more sparge water to be used.

I still do 1:1 and never have a problem.

 

[flabyboy]

I think it has something to do with the size system you have as well. I have a 5 gallon cooler mashtun. 2qt/lb is not really an option for me

 

[InLimbo]

For my 1st all-grain brew session, I followed Charlie P's recommendation of 1:1 ratio. WAY too thick and difficult to work with, even for a basic batch single-infusion system like I use.

For the last 10 or so batches, I’ve bumped up to ~ 1.15 quart/pound. None of my fermentations have come out a dry as I want, even when holding 145-149F for 60-> 90 minutes. I'm looking for a bone dry IPA. . .

This weekend I plan to bump the ratio to 1.5 quarts/pound for the Arrogant Bastard clone from CYBI.

A lot of people just seem to focus on ONE aspect of brewing. Now we have a grist:water ratio thread. A few days ago, I saw a "duration of mash" thread. It's not hard, but to brew the beer that you want, it requires attention at each level.

For example, you think that your beers aren't dry enough simply because of your water:grist ratio? You're at least mashing at a decent temperature to try to get more fermentables. But what is your mash pH? Do you have your fermentation process down to a T? Are you using a highly attenuating yeast strain? How are you preparing said yeast? How much of said yeast are you pitching? What is your fermentation schedule? Have you tried using a diacetyl rest at the end?

My point is just that there are so many variables with brewing, that it's silly to think "ah, if I just change this one little tiny part, then EVERYTHING will simply fall into place." The brewing process is not a domino effect. You have to know what you're doing each and every step of the way.

 

[mullenite]

A lot of people just seem to focus on ONE aspect of brewing. Now we have a grist:water ratio thread. A few days ago, I saw a "duration of mash" thread. It's not hard, but to brew the beer that you want, it requires attention at each level.

For example, you think that your beers aren't dry enough simply because of your water:grist ratio? You're at least mashing at a decent temperature to try to get more fermentables. But what is your mash pH? Do you have your fermentation process down to a T? Are you using a highly attenuating yeast strain? How are you preparing said yeast? How much of said yeast are you pitching? What is your fermentation schedule? Have you tried using a diacetyl rest at the end?

My point is just that there are so many variables with brewing, that it's silly to think "ah, if I just change this one little tiny part, then EVERYTHING will simply fall into place." The brewing process is not a domino effect. You have to know what you're doing each and every step of the way.

And by asking how to improve each of those steps people are improving their beers.

When I first started all-grain my beers were all over the place. Since then I have done things, one at a time, to improve them and now I am happy with every beer I make. It started for me with mash temperature and time, then mash thickness, then mash pH (buffering my strike water and my sparge water or just one or the other to see what different it made.) I also made changes in my boil and post-boil procedures one at a time just to see what difference they all made. That is how you learn, focus on one thing at a time until you understand what it does.

 

[BrewNow]

The beauty of home brewing is being able to change one variable at a time with the same recipe to evaluate the impact. I've been pitching WLP001 for a number of generations from prior batches using Mr. Malty as a guide. Also maintain ferment temps for the 1st 24-36 hours low to mid 60F and ramping up to 68 towards the end.

Fermentation and yeast health/pitching rate is the 1st critical piece that I ‘controlled’ (at least to the best of my ability). Now I move on to the mash. . .

 

[tjpfeister]

I think it has something to do with the size system you have as well. I have a 5 gallon cooler mashtun. 2qt/lb is not really an option for me

My minimasher was only capable of holding 1.125 quarts per pound, and I have simply stuck to this ratio out of habit.

 

[churdbird]

Wow, I'm a little shocked that more didn't have something to say about this. It's something we all take into consideration when brewing. Or at least we did when we first started. Or maybe it's one of those thing that no thought is put into. And maybe there is no just reason. On one end 1 qt/pd. Is to dry and the other.. Well, eventually you would have your pre-boil volume. But one would thing that there is some material out there and research that has been tried and trued to back it up.

 

[flabyboy]

Wow, I'm a little shocked that more didn't have something to say about this. It's something we all take into consideration when brewing. Or at least we did when we first started. Or maybe it's one of those thing that no thought is put into. And maybe there is no just reason. On one end 1 qt/pd. Is to dry and the other.. Well, eventually you would have your pre-boil volume. But one would thing that there is some material out there and research that has been tried and trued to back it up.

Everything I have heard is the ratio has little effect on the final product. Mash temp and pH are more important

 

[RukusDM]

When mashing in, what volume of mash in do you use and why. Some use 1.25 qts/# on up. In J.P's How 2 Brew, he recomends using 2 qts/pd. I was thinkind the standard was 1.25-1.33 qt/pd. But why? What will the 1.25 vs. 2qts give that the other wont?
The reason for the question is I have found that in my system and making a small brew. (About #8's of grist) I dont have enough volume to recirculate thru the rims.

I think you will get a wide variety of answers on this. I started with the 1.25 qt/lb and found the mash to be tight as I use BIAB. I couldn't stir it and mix it well. I ended up going with around 2 qt/lb to make it easier.

I've done mostly 60 min mashes and 1 90 min mash and I only loose about a degree in temperature.

I also found while using BIAB that I got much better efficiency using the 90 min mash, but then again, I do mostly light beers and lagers and they seem to require longer mashes for me.

I don't think there is anything magic using 1.25 vs 1.5 at least from my limited experience.

 

[sjbeerman]

For my 1st all-grain brew session, I followed Charlie P's recommendation of 1:1 ratio. WAY too thick and difficult to work with, even for a basic batch single-infusion system like I use.

For the last 10 or so batches, I’ve bumped up to ~ 1.15 quart/pound. None of my fermentations have come out a dry as I want, even when holding 145-149F for 60-> 90 minutes. I'm looking for a bone dry IPA. . .

This weekend I plan to bump the ratio to 1.5 quarts/pound for the Arrogant Bastard clone from CYBI.

Do you perform a mash out? I've been getting high attenuations unintentionally, but I feel I know the cause. If you can describe your process, perhaps I can describe how I recently got an 87% attenuation, which is pretty bone dry!

 

[CPooley4]

I let my brew chart take care of the mash in calculation for me. Designed it so that I get 50% of my boil volume from the mash and the other 50% from the sparge. The research on this tells us that to maximize efficiency the 50/50 rule is the best way to go. Venturing away from that isn't a real big deal, but the further you get away from it the more you are sacrificing in efficiency. I'm typically in the 1.5 - 2.0 range for what it's worth.

Kai did a great experiment/write up on this. You can find it on his website - www.braukaiser.com.

If you want to give my brew chart a try you can find it in my signature below. It's free and does pretty much all the math for you so all you need to do is brew and make sure your measurements/gravities are recorded right.

Good luck.

cp

 

[brettwasbtd]

Ya, I have been trying to gather information on this, at it just seems that there isnt a whole lot of difference on the water to grain ration on the end result of the beer. I Have read braukaiser's stuff on efficiency and sparging - Great Info! I had always been doing 1.25/1, but after reading that you first runnings are your "best quality wort" I am interested in a thinner mash. I might try it out on saturday, but I doubt I will notice much difference.

 

[BrewNow]

Do you perform a mash out? I've been getting high attenuations unintentionally, but I feel I know the cause. If you can describe your process, perhaps I can describe how I recently got an 87% attenuation, which is pretty bone dry!

That Arrogant Bastard clone I mentioned a few weeks back, well I ended up with 90% efficiency (yum yum!). I did go with 1.5qts/lb ratio and struck at 150F. It sat for 90 minutes, pulled off the wort -> added 3gal *almost* boiling water which brought the mash up to 170F exactly. Added 1 gallon more @ 170F and drained that. Ended up with 6.5 gallons in the boil.

I'll be using the same process next weekend for a Bitter. Probably shoot for closer to a 50/50 sparge instead of the 3 gal + 1 gal. With my increase in water/grain ratio, I just was not sure how much I would get from the 1st runnings. Now that I have a better idea, the sparge additions should be a little better planned.

 

[ASantiago]

If you want to give my brew chart a try you can find it in my signature below.

Wow... Pretty comprehensive set of worksheets.

 

[sjbeerman]

I let my brew chart take care of the mash in calculation for me. Designed it so that I get 50% of my boil volume from the mash and the other 50% from the sparge. The research on this tells us that to maximize efficiency the 50/50 rule is the best way to go. Venturing away from that isn't a real big deal, but the further you get away from it the more you are sacrificing in efficiency. I'm typically in the 1.5 - 2.0 range for what it's worth.

Kai did a great experiment/write up on this. You can find it on his website - www.braukaiser.com.

If you want to give my brew chart a try you can find it in my signature below. It's free and does pretty much all the math for you so all you need to do is brew and make sure your measurements/gravities are recorded right.

Good luck.

cp

I used your chart for my latest batch and went with the 50/50 split. I ended up with 76% efficiency, which I am pretty happy with! It's an excellent chart and I will be using it again for future batches.