• Please visit and share your knowledge at our sister communities:
  • If you have not, please join our official Homebrewing Facebook Group!

    Homebrewing Facebook Group

Mash Hopping - Anyone Have Insight?

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Jordan Logo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
190
Reaction score
93
Location
San Francisco, CA
After watching a video documentary on a brewery on YouTube they mentioned mash hopping creating more of a smooth bitterness along with other notes. I found it interesting since mashes usually are around 146°-160°F so I wonder what type of flavors you’d get.

Does anyone have any experience doing so?
 
Last edited:
Jury is out on this it seems. You’ll find some people saying yes, it’s cool, while others shrug and can’t see the benefit.

What does work though, and has a precedent in German brewing among other traditions, is first wort hopping. Temps are really the same - anywhere from sacc rest range to 170° if one performs a mashout.

Word has it that FWH can result in hop flavors that survive the boil due to chemical bonding that occurs at those pre-isomerization temps. I use it often and do find that the effect is neutral to positive.
 
Jury is out on this it seems. You’ll find some people saying yes, it’s cool, while others shrug and can’t see the benefit.

What does work though, and has a precedent in German brewing among other traditions, is first wort hopping. Temps are really the same - anywhere from sacc rest range to 170° if one performs a mashout.

Word has it that FWH can result in hop flavors that survive the boil due to chemical bonding that occurs at those pre-isomerization temps. I use it often and do find that the effect is neutral to positive.

Sorry, First Wort Hopping? Any articles you can recommend on this?
 
It’s simply adding hops while collecting the initial runnings - the “first wort” if you will. In BIAB for example, chuck in the hops after pulling the bag. Then start heating to a boil. Nothing complicated about it! [emoji4]

I use this to replace the bittering addition at the start of the boil. You can also split this addition between FWH and a proper post-hot break bittering charge if you like.
 
I think they're saying that you'll get more out of the hops at nearly any other point in the process than adding them to the mash.

If the technique was really a special thing, it would be common practice. Instead, it's just an experiment that rarely catches on beyond a first try.
 
Never tried mash hopping, some say its a waste of hops, some say it works for them.
It seems logical that any hop flavors developed in the mash would be lost in the boiling process? Maybe you need to use a large quantity of hops to make it work.
There are some "quick and dirty" 15-30 minute boil recipes where hopping in the mash could be a benefit.
You could even try using a hop bag in the mash and since they aren't boiled, use the same hops in the boil.
 
I read somewhere that mash hopping with whole leaf hops can be used in much the same way as rice hulls, to improve drainage of adjunted mashes. The article also said very little IBUs were contributed.

I have considered trying this with some old leaf hops from the back of my freezer, but wondered if they could impart off flavors too. Using fresh hops for this does not seem cost effective.
 
When certain styles of German beer are produced, usually, beer made with high amounts of high protein, high fiber Beta Glucan ingredients, hops are added into each decoction and boiled with the decoction. The hot break and mud that surfaces are removed from the boiling decoctions as they form. Boiling the mash and adding hops helps with lowering viscosity and lessens the chance of a stuck sparge. Boiling the mash cleans the wort and makes it stabile and chemically balanced which reduces the chance of off flavors forming during fermentation and conditioning. About half the amount of hops are used with the decoction method compared with the amount of hops used with other brewing methods because the wort is cleaner when it's made from the decoction method. Large amounts of high Alpha hops aren't needed to clean and overcome the chemically imbalanced, muddy wort that other brewing methods produce. Wort becomes chemically imbalance when it's in the boiler, boiling. The enzymes that change the newly formed chemicals into beneficial vitamins and nutrients are long gone by that time.
I'm not sure if hops add any significant value by adding them into malt soaking in hot water because the temperature is too low to cause chemical precipitation to occur that occurs when mash is boiled. For filtering, hops are awesome and if enough are added to mash containing a lot of goop, sparge would probably be easier.
First wort hops are added in a different way than brewers add them. Here's the way it's done. When the bottom of the wort boiler is covered with extract stop adding extract and fire the boiler. After the extract starts to boil add a small amount of hops or a handful of crushed black malt and very slowly add extract without stopping the boil. Skim off the hot break as the boiler fills. It's a trick from way back. Less worry about boil over and the boiler can be filled higher. Hops and black malt reduce surface tension and that's about all there is about first wort hops. They're used to improve the quality of wort. The focus isn't placed on the bittering aspect because the hops shouldn't have any impact on bittering or flavor. The hops added later on, do.
It's always a good idea to skim off the hot break as it forms in the boiler until it stops forming or drastically reduces before adding bittering hops. The wort is cleaner and less hops are needed because hop character sticks better to clean wort.
A few years ago I watched a brew guru recommend spraying starsan on hot break to get rid of it, spray wort with starsan before and after adding hops. It was hilarious to watch a brew guru do something like that. Perhaps, wort becomes cleaner when soap is added and even cleaner when beer is added into a fermenter containing starsan. LOLOLsssss!!
 
Interesting, I've often wondered if it might be better to remove bulk of hot break scum/foam anyway. Obviously, some of the foam is protein, but wonder if there is some flavor there too that would be lost. Perhaps I'll have to do an experiment.

While not related to mash hopping the way I do it, I usually add first wort hops by adding the first dose of boil hops to BK before I begin to sparge. This is supposed to mellow the bitter taste aspect of these hops, at least according to a Beer Smith article I received.
 
I think mash hopping makes good sense if hops are free and plentiful. I've yet to try it but I will soon. You do need to use extra because a lot of alpha acids will remain behind in the spent grains.
 
Obviously, some of the foam is protein, but wonder if there is some flavor there too that would be lost. Perhaps I'll have to do an experiment.

It is just malt protein coming out of solution. Skim it off with a slotted spoon so that the liquid remains in the kettle, and collect it in a cup. Drink it! You'll have a warm, lightly sweet malt beverage that resembles espresso crema, only without the bitterness. It's actually quite tasty, and not gross at all. You can put it into coffee if you like. Perfect for an early brew day morning. :coff4:
 
When certain styles of German beer are produced, usually, beer made with high amounts of high protein, high fiber Beta Glucan ingredients, hops are added into each decoction and boiled with the decoction. The hot break and mud that surfaces are removed from the boiling decoctions as they form...

You can safely disregard anything this guy posts as it is 100% made up. He does display quite a remarkable creative streak though...
 
Beta Glucan is fibrous. It's usually indicated on a malt spec sheet. A mixture of Alpha/Beta Glucanase is an enzyme that's produced to reduce Beta Glucan. A rest temperature in the 130F range allows Proteinase to reduce the fiber into glucose which reduces mash viscosity.

"You can safely disregard anything this guy posts as it is 100% made up."
Nah, not really. It's just not found in homebrew hobby info that you are familiar with.
 
Beta Glucan is fibrous. It's usually indicated on a malt spec sheet. A mixture of Alpha/Beta Glucanase is an enzyme that's produced to reduce Beta Glucan. A rest temperature in the 130F range allows Proteinase to reduce the fiber into glucose which reduces mash viscosity.

"You can safely disregard anything this guy posts as it is 100% made up."
Nah, not really. It's just not found in homebrew hobby info that you are familiar with.

Well.. ..except that none of this is accurate.. ..source: me - biochemist/enzymologist with >20 years studying plant polysaccharides (cellulose, hemicellulose, glucans and everything in-between, i.e. fibre) and how enzymes degrade them.
 
Nah, not really. It's just not found in homebrew hobby info that you are familiar with.
Yes, because what I'm familiar with is not made up bullcrap.

If you're trying to look knowledgeable with this nonsense you're really not succeeding at all and all you managed to do so far is to look foolish.

Please do go away.
 
Back
Top