Marzen tips

[burtom]

Here's my recipe. I've won a couple medals with it and I'm happy with it.

View attachment 694530

The biggest tip I can offer you is that this beer is just as much about process as it is about ingredients. Because it is a malty beer, everyone focuses on selecting malts to get the flavors they want, but the single most important thing in a Marzen (or any German style really), is the balance. It needs to smell malty, initially taste like its going to be rich and filling, and then finish crisp and dry and leave you wanting more.

So to achieve that you need to have a very fermentable wort, and I like the hops to be right up against the limit for the style. I use a modified Hockhurz mash schedule, starting at 143, then I pull a decoction with a kitchen strainer (basically all grain and almost no liquid). Boil it for 10-20 minutes, and add it back to the main mash to hit 156. Then I ramp the temp up to 168 for a mashout and sparge. I have also baked the decoction in the oven for 30 minutes at 400 to add some really nice bready flavors.

Another thing is yeast. I like WLP833, WLP820, and WY2633. I also like a BIG starter, like 3L. I oxygenate my wort with pure oxygen, and use servomyces yeast nutrient. I ferment at 50 for about 7 days, and then ramp the temperature by 2 degrees per day for a diacetyl rest at 65, and then cold crash to 38 for a few days before kegging. Keep oxygen on the cold side at a minimum, it's the enemy of good malt flavor. So closed transfers, liquid purged kegs, etc.

Hope that helps!

Hi I like the process your using. My question is are you using 10% Melanoiden Malt and doing a Hockhurz Mash? When I do a decoction I normally skip the Melanoiden and rely on the decoction for flavor.

Thanks
Tom

 

[TheMadKing]

Hi I like the process your using. My question is are you using 10% Melanoiden Malt and doing a Hockhurz Mash? When I do a decoction I normally skip the Melanoiden and rely on the decoction for flavor.

Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom,

I added the melanoidin because I am only doing a single decoction instead of a triple decoction. I found that I prefer the additional bready malt flavor that it gives.

 

[wepeeler]

I'll be running a test run off of @BierMuncher OktoberFAST recipe, except I'm lagering:

36.4% Pilsner
18.2% Vienna
18.2% Munich
9.1% Crystal/Caramel 20L
9.1% Aromatic
4.5% Carapils
4.5% Crystal/Caramel 40L
Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest Blend BIG STARTER
Tettnang @60, 20, 10 = 23 IBU

Plan is to ferment @50F and have it ready for the middle of October. It will be done

It's ready now, and boy is it DELICIOUS! It's not overly sweet by any means. Just the right malt backbone and Noble hop bitterness, for me anyway. Everyone who has tried it so far wanted more. I get almost a light Cinnabon flavor. Amazing. Can't wait for the Fall! The only thing I would change so far is the color. I'd prefer it a bit darker amber.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Nice! Looks great! Just pulled the first carbed pour of ours. Only been lagering a week. Got a few more to go but pretty tasty. I'm reserving judgement on it until it's ready.

 

[Maxkling]

This was my paulaner clone attempt. Very close.

 

[Rob2010SS]

View attachment 703747

This was my paulaner clone attempt. Very close.

Looks great!

 

[WortMonger]

View attachment 703747

This was my paulaner clone attempt. Very close.

What was the recipe you went with? If you don't mind me asking that is?

 

[passedpawn]

I've tried a lot of Ocfest variations over the years, but now I just use 80% pilsner malt and 20% Caramunich 1. Comes out just the way I like it. I'd normally have it on tap right now, but made vienna lagers this fall instead. In fact, just put first keg on tap last night, and tonight it gets the seal broken

Here's a pic of that ocfest from last fall (some butternut squash soup there, too, nom nom).

 

[WortMonger]

Hmm, more Pilsner than Munich huh? I was thinking the other way round. 80 Munich 20 Pils.

 

[passedpawn]

Hmm, more Pilsner than Munich huh? I was thinking the other way round. 80 Munich 20 Pils.

I prefer a more subtle malt in mine. Low malt, low gravity. I've made it all ways, and this is best for me.

 

[WortMonger]

I'll keep that in mind while fooling around with my recipes in the future.

 

[secretlevel]

Here's my recipe. I've won a couple medals with it and I'm happy with it.

View attachment 694530

The biggest tip I can offer you is that this beer is just as much about process as it is about ingredients. Because it is a malty beer, everyone focuses on selecting malts to get the flavors they want, but the single most important thing in a Marzen (or any German style really), is the balance. It needs to smell malty, initially taste like its going to be rich and filling, and then finish crisp and dry and leave you wanting more.

So to achieve that you need to have a very fermentable wort, and I like the hops to be right up against the limit for the style. I use a modified Hockhurz mash schedule, starting at 143, then I pull a decoction with a kitchen strainer (basically all grain and almost no liquid). Boil it for 10-20 minutes, and add it back to the main mash to hit 156. Then I ramp the temp up to 168 for a mashout and sparge. I have also baked the decoction in the oven for 30 minutes at 400 to add some really nice bready flavors.

Another thing is yeast. I like WLP833, WLP820, and WY2633. I also like a BIG starter, like 3L. I oxygenate my wort with pure oxygen, and use servomyces yeast nutrient. I ferment at 50 for about 7 days, and then ramp the temperature by 2 degrees per day for a diacetyl rest at 65, and then cold crash to 38 for a few days before kegging. Keep oxygen on the cold side at a minimum, it's the enemy of good malt flavor. So closed transfers, liquid purged kegs, etc.

Hope that helps!

That's a very interesting recipe - I used 4% Caramunich I and 4% Briess Caramel 40 and got lots of judges commenting that the caramel is too intense. Still got 40 on the beer though. 10% melanoidin seems nuts!

What were some of the scores you got and comments if you remember?

Going to brew up my annual version, but no Briess Caramel this time:
53% Weyermann Pils
30% Munich I
10% Munich II
7% Caramunich I

23 IBU / W34/70

 

[TheMadKing]

That's a very interesting recipe - I used 4% Caramunich I and 4% Briess Caramel 40 and got lots of judges commenting that the caramel is too intense. Still got 40 on the beer though. 10% melanoidin seems nuts!

What were some of the scores you got and comments if you remember?

Going to brew up my annual version, but no Briess Caramel this time:
53% Weyermann Pils
30% Munich I
10% Munich II
7% Caramunich I

23 IBU / W34/70

I got fairly unhelpful comments from the judges in the last comp I entered it in. Also keep in mind that judging scoresheet comments are 75% nonsense and 25% helpful, so I make it a rule to always taste the beer while I read the scoresheet and disregard anything on the score sheet I can't pick up. You'll find that beer judging is a crapchute an unfortunate amount of time.

But FWIW my scores were 42 and 38 - one claimed to taste bubblegum and apricot which were inappropriate and said the malt was artificial tasting but overall the beer was well balanced and clean (contradictory), and the other said the maltiness was at a good level and not cloying but he wanted a bit more complexity and sweetness to it (also contradictory)

On the melanoidin, it's important to remember the difference between a kilned malt and a crystal malt. Melanoidin, along with amber, biscuit, and brown malt are highly kilned meaning that they are dried for longer periods and at a higher temperature after malting, but not a high enough temperature to cause caramelization. Crystal malts are basically "mashed inside the grain" and then dried at a much higher temperature so that the sugars caramelize rather than only creating maillard reactions. So chemically the two processes are very different. I've never found melanoidin to add sweetness or caramel like a crystal malt does, but it adds an intense maillard flavor (like bread crust or baking bread) if that makes sense. IMO most folks are too cautious with melanoidin. It can certainly throw off the balance of an IPA or anything lighter, but if you're going for malty it's a great malt choice.