Making my own system need help

[cbarker777]

I am making an ebiab out of a keg and a fermenter out of a keg. I want to do an element at the bottom is there any reason I can't do a tri clover out of the bottom like this https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankebdrain5.htm it is just one less hole I have to drill. Then do I need a false bottom of some kind to protect the element even though I am doing a basket with feet? How close to the bottom can I do my homework element? I have more but I will leave it at that for now.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

You can do a bottom drain, absolutely, just need to have enough height on the keg to clear the outlet. You can't run you heating element through that hole though - it'll stick straight up, so you'll need to drill a new hole for that. If your basket clears your element then you don't need a false bottom for EBIAB. Note that you can't effectively whirlpool with a center bottom drain.
-Kevin

 

[cbarker777]

Thank you. I did not know that I could not whirlpool with the center drain that is what I planed on doing so I guess I need 4 holes one for drain one for the temp probe one for one for the whirlpool and one for the element.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thank you. I did not know that I could not whirlpool with the center drain that is what I planed on doing so I guess I need 4 holes one for drain one for the temp probe one for one for the whirlpool and one for the element.

The whole purpose to whirlpooling is to whirlpool all of the trub to the center of the kettle... right on top of where the center bottom drain would be..

 

[cbarker777]

The whole purpose to whirlpooling is to whirlpool all of the trub to the center of the kettle... right on top of where the center bottom drain would be..

My understanding is there are other reasons to whirlpool for example to help with cooling when using a chiller.

 

[cbarker777]

My next question is has anyone ever tried treading the keg itself? Example I want to make a fermenter out of a keg I want a thermoprob about half way. You can't do a weld less because you would have to be able to get inside with tools and the top of an uncut keg isn't big enough to get in there. So my thought was drill a hole put a thread to the hole and put a gasket on the outside. I just question if a keg I'd thick enough to thread and it make any difference at all. Would it hold.

 

[cbarker777]

Also for those out there who have made keggles how big or small of a batch can you do in them? Would I have a hard time brewing a 5gal batch could I expect to brew a 10 gal batch with no problem.

 

[helterscelter]

Also for those out there who have made keggles how big or small of a batch can you do in them? Would I have a hard time brewing a 5gal batch could I expect to brew a 10 gal batch with no problem.

I routinely boil 12 to 13.5 gals (14.5 if I'm brave) for an avg 11 gals into the fermenter. doing smaller batches is no problem -- I rarely do 5 gallon batches but have no issues doing so.. just make sure your chiller (if you use immersion chiller) will reach sufficiently low into your keggle to be immersed in your wort.

 

[helterscelter]

My next question is has anyone ever tried treading the keg itself? Example I want to make a fermenter out of a keg I want a thermoprob about half way. You can't do a weld less because you would have to be able to get inside with tools and the top of an uncut keg isn't big enough to get in there. So my thought was drill a hole put a thread to the hole and put a gasket on the outside. I just question if a keg I'd thick enough to thread and it make any difference at all. Would it hold.

lots of folks do fermentation in sankey kegs.. some go wild with cutting and welding larger openings (such as 3 or 4 inch triclover fittings or ports the size of a corney lid, etc). some use the keg basically unmodified, placing all the stuff you need in through the 2 inch triclover (http://www.brewershardware.com/American-Sanke-Keg-Fermentor-Kit-with-Thermowell.html)

as for drilling and tapping a hole through the side.. the keg wall is fairly thin, I doubt that threads cut into it would hold up very well or allow you to tighten a fitting enough to seal properly.

 

[cbarker777]

lots of folks do fermentation in sankey kegs.. some go wild with cutting and welding larger openings (such as 3 or 4 inch triclover fittings or ports the size of a corney lid, etc). some use the keg basically unmodified, placing all the stuff you need in through the 2 inch triclover (http://www.brewershardware.com/American-Sanke-Keg-Fermentor-Kit-with-Thermowell.html)

as for drilling and tapping a hole through the side.. the keg wall is fairly thin, I doubt that threads cut into it would hold up very well or allow you to tighten a fitting enough to seal properly.

Is there any concern with too much head space if you only have 10gal in the keg for fermentation.

 

[helterscelter]

Is there any concern with too much head space if you only have 10gal in the keg for fermentation.

No. Primary fermentation isn't negatively impacted by oxygen exposure initially. The yeast use the o2 to grow and multiply.

After primary you can transfer to keg or secondary or bottling bucket in a completely sealed o2 free environment. Just purge your destination vessel prior to transferring and use co2 pressure for the transfer.

 

[cbarker777]

I planed on using co2 to transfer. My set up is going to have a racking cane and a spunding valve. If you use a spunding valve what psi do you want it to release at or does it even matter I know you don't want so much pressure that it carbonates but how much is that.

 

[helterscelter]

I planed on using co2 to transfer. My set up is going to have a racking cane and a spunding valve. If you use a spunding valve what psi do you want it to release at or does it even matter I know you don't want so much pressure that it carbonates but how much is that.

There is a very long thread about pressure fermentation in Sankey kegs. I'm def not knowledgeable enough to tell you more than basics and that it is possible.

 

[augiedoggy]

My understanding is there are other reasons to whirlpool for example to help with cooling when using a chiller.

Tru but that would be just as effective as mixing or stirring... just using water flow to do so... Many whirlpool so the solids go into the center and when they draw from the edge the solids/trub stays in the pot and doesnt get sucked into the plate chiller or fermenter.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Rather than threading the keg, look into soldering on a fitting. Bobby does it all the time with good results and has a video to show you how to do it.

If I ever found a spare keg I'd turn it into a fermenter in a heartbeat. Doing 10gal batches in 2 6gal carboys is a PITA.

 

[cbarker777]

Rather than threading the keg, look into soldering on a fitting. Bobby does it all the time with good results and has a video to show you how to do it.



If I ever found a spare keg I'd turn it into a fermenter in a heartbeat. Doing 10gal batches in 2 6gal carboys is a PITA.

Kegs are pretty common for me to come by but that being said I can't abuse that supply line. I will be happy with the two. I have watched videos on soldering and considered that for all my connections but I have never soldered like that and I am hesitant because I don't want to ruin a keg. I worry about using a thermoprob the comes down from the top because the length it needs to be would change based on how big of a batch I was fermenting.

 

[helterscelter]

Kegs are pretty common for me to come by but that being said I can't abuse that supply line. I will be happy with the two. I have watched videos on soldering and considered that for all my connections but I have never soldered like that and I am hesitant because I don't want to ruin a keg. I worry about using a thermoprob the comes down from the top because the length it needs to be would change based on how big of a batch I was fermenting.

soldering a fitting into a keg without cutting open the top would be very difficult. you really need to fill the seam in the inside of the joint with solder in order to be strong and sanitary. I've seen several methods/products for soldering fittings, but they all basically boil down to: cut a hole, create a dimple, pull a fitting through the dimple and solder the back-side seam filling the dimple with solder.(https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ptbulkhead.htm) all of these steps require that you can get your hands inside the vessel. you might be able to solder on a weldable spud (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/spud.htm) from the outside, but I still suspect that getting a sanitary seam on the inside of the spud would be difficult.

Does the thermowell need to change length or does the distance you insert the probe into the well need to change? what would be the issue with having the probe/well a fixed length? in large/10gal batches the probe would effectively be at the lower half (bottom 2.5 gallon level) of the wort, and for small/5gal batches it would be in the middle of the wort. as long as the probe is in the wort, I doubt you'll see much difference in temp readings between the upper-portion and lower-portion. (temperature stratification can be an issue with large fermenters -- I'm not sure that a 1/2bbl sankey quite qualifies as large though)

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Regarding probe length - I have a fixed depth thermowell that runs the full height of the carboy, and the temperature probe fits relatively tightly inside but allows me to move it up or down as I see fit. Something like that would work for you.

 

[cbarker777]

soldering a fitting into a keg without cutting open the top would be very difficult. you really need to fill the seam in the inside of the joint with solder in order to be strong and sanitary. I've seen several methods/products for soldering fittings, but they all basically boil down to: cut a hole, create a dimple, pull a fitting through the dimple and solder the back-side seam filling the dimple with solder.(https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ptbulkhead.htm) all of these steps require that you can get your hands inside the vessel. you might be able to solder on a weldable spud (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/spud.htm) from the outside, but I still suspect that getting a sanitary seam on the inside of the spud would be difficult.



Does the thermowell need to change length or does the distance you insert the probe into the well need to change? what would be the issue with having the probe/well a fixed length? in large/10gal batches the probe would effectively be at the lower half (bottom 2.5 gallon level) of the wort, and for small/5gal batches it would be in the middle of the wort. as long as the probe is in the wort, I doubt you'll see much difference in temp readings between the upper-portion and lower-portion. (temperature stratification can be an issue with large fermenters -- I'm not sure that a 1/2bbl sankey quite qualifies as large though)

Regarding probe length - I have a fixed depth thermowell that runs the full height of the carboy, and the temperature probe fits relatively tightly inside but allows me to move it up or down as I see fit. Something like that would work for you.

Thank you all of that helps a lot. I Guess the best option for the fermenter would be three holes in the plug at the top one for a racking cane one for a spunding valve and one for a thermoprob.

Is Soldering in fittings better or is weld-less better. I would like to do triclover connections which seems hard but not impossible with weld-less. I have never soldered anything so I guess that's why I am hesitant.

 

[cbarker777]

How big of a batch can I brew in a 15gal keg mash and all can I do a 10gal batch or is that to big for grain and all?

 

[helterscelter]

How big of a batch can I brew in a 15gal keg mash and all can I do a 10gal batch or is that to big for grain and all?

You can target 10 or 11 gal into the fermenter pretty easy.

The question of grain is really dependant upon your recipe. At 37lbs of grain I can mash in with about 10 gallons, which fills the keggle to the rim. I have to fly sparge and recirculate/direct heat with that much grain as there is no room for adding any more water.