Making English Bitter- Need Help With Malt Selection

[RickyRaw]

So, I'm making a Bitter and I'm planning on using the following ingredients,

Type: Extract
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 4.71 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 4.42 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 6.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
British Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1335)
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0

8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
4.0 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %


3 lbs Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 42.9 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 7 35.7 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 20.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 9 6.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Fuggle [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 3.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Fuggle [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 1.2 IBUs

I know that using wheat extract, which is only 65% real wheat, isn't "traditional" but it's what I have and I hope the wheat will add some good fullness to the brew.

My main question, though any advice would be welcome, is whether or not this will come out too sweet with the combo of the wheat extract, the 8oz of Crystal 60, and the other malts specified. Should I try Crystal 40 instead? I'm using very light DME so I don't want it to come out too thin either. I know most Bitter recipes use mostly Crystal but I wanted something a little less sweet and more complex and I'm throwing in the Maris just cause its English and I think should be represented. The Choco and Biscuit are there to add malt flavor and richness without adding much more sweetness.

I want this to be malty but not too sweet, crisp and well balanced. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[RickyRaw]

Target OG 1.046

Target FG 1.010

I will probably reduce Wheat DME even more to try to get the OG down to around 1.040 or so.

 

[Gameface]

Unless you plan to do a mash I'd leave the MO out.

I might try to get some MO syrup instead of the DME, but I wouldn't use MO.

Other than that you look good. But I personally don't really like fuggles and would either use Northern Brewer for the bittering hop or do all EKG. But that's only because I don't like fuggles. If you like it then forget that part.

 

[RickyRaw]

I was thinking that too about the MO. Do you recommend dropping that 8oz of malt completely, or maybe replace it with something else? Crystal 40 Perhaps?

To be honest, I don't have any experience with Fuggle besides that it looked like it had an interesting flavor profile. Is there a beer, whether it has Fuggle or not, that has that flavor and is widely available?

Thanks for the tip about the NB, I've seen that in Bitter recipes before but I'm not sure that's what I'm looking for flavor wise. I'm really trying for a fruity spicy sort of hop combo to blend with the malt sweetness. I was originally thinking of Pilgrim to bitter and Styrian or Fuggle for aroma but my LHBS doesn't have it. Any other hop suggestions? I may try your EKG suggestion and do a straight single hop for the next few brews so I can dial in on the flavor of each.

Thanks

 

[rodwha]

I'd try to replace the extract with Maris Otter. MoreBeer sells a Maris Otter LME now.

I've seen a recipe for an ESB that used some wheat, but not nearly that much.

 

[RickyRaw]

I was thinking that, but I was afraid that MO would be too sweet and or too dark with the malts I'm planning on using. I may try that if they carry MO LME or DME at my LHBS.

 

[Oginme]

Maris Otter is exactly what you need for an English Bitter. It has a nice rich bready, slightly nutty taste which fits well with the style. I would second using a MO extract (DME or LME) if you can get it.

 

[rodwha]

M.O. isn't really darker than typical 2-row.

From what I gather the Brits would increase the boil time to darken it instead of adding crystal malts, though some will also use a small bit of black malt or some such so as not to impart flavor.

M.O. is spot on for a bitter!

 

[RickyRaw]

Hey everyone. I wanted to do a little update here on what I actually used for this recipe so here goes;

British Ale (Wyeast Labs #1098)

8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
4.0 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.8 %
2.0 oz Flaked Wheat
10.0 oz Maltodextrin!

6.6 lbs Munton's Maris Otter Liquid Extract (? SRM) Liquid Extract 85 %

1.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 20.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 6.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - At flame out



I've had it in primary for about 2.5 weeks and getting ready to rack into secondary.

Looking back after taste testing, I would use less Crystal, about half, and maybe replace chocolate and biscuit with special roast and I would leave out the maltodextrin. What I got was way darker then I wanted but I'll have to wait till it's cold and carbonated before I can really assess how it came out. Overall, the base flavor seems good but I got more of a bitter brown ale then an ordinary bitter.

I am concerned however, that the maltodextrin made getting good hydro readings impossible. My starting gravity from the full 6 gallons was 1.056 which definitely didn't come from those two cans of extract.

I had a pretty unimpressive fermentation, probably due to slightly too low temperature, and excessive gravity from the maltodextrin. My temps weren't too bad, it never got more than 1 degree below optimal range (64-72), and my average temp was around 66.

Right now gravity is siting at 1.020!? I used English ale yeast which drops out quickly but I only noticed fermentation for the first three days, and slowly at that, and for another two days after I agitated the yeast. After those extra two days of fermentation stopped, I gently stirred up the yeast and warmed the bucket to about 68 degrees, but no noticeable increase in activity or gravity.

I'm not sure what to do since my hydro readings are pretty much useless because of the maltodextrin addition. If this was an incomplete fermentation, would adding more yeast and slightly raising the temp work to clean the beer out? The beer doesn't taste sickly sweet or anything but I think I got some weird off-flavors, but that could just be from being immature. Any suggestions?

 

[rodwha]

I've had a stuck fermentation that was brought back to life by adding a little table sugar boiled in water and cooled, and then added with a gentle stir from a sanitized spoon to swirl up the yeast, and keeping it at room temp (mid 70's).

I've not used maltodextrin so I'm unfamiliar with how it effects the gravity readings.

I use a slight bit of crystal 50/60 to bring it to ~12 SRM, but mine keep looking a little darker than expected. It's almost a light brown color.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Extract recipes have a tendency to finish higher than target FG and the malto is unfermentable. Between the two of those, you may be done.