looking for recirculating BIAB advice

[sam_cotter]

I am looking for advice on recirculating BIAB brewing. Please give advice, feedback, or critique of my thoughts below.

Here is my plan for a recirculating BIAB set up. I am putting my equipment together slowly but surely. The plan is to use a keggle as the mash tun and for the brew pot after the bag is removed. Re-circulation of the mash will done with one of the small 12 volt pumps found on amazon. The mash will be recirculated thru a small copper coil heat exchanger submerged in a 10-15 quart pot filled with mash temperature water. The pot will be on a 1100 watt hot plate plugged into a thermostatically controlled outlet, the temperature probe for the outlet will be in the mash. Heat loss during the mash will trigger the outlet to turn on the hot plate and bring up the temperature in the water pot, thus raising the temperature of the mash going thru the submerged copper coil heat exchanger. I will have a propane burner under the keggle as well to be able to give a quick blast of heat if necessary and to raise the temp of the mash for mash out if desired. The burner would also be used for the boil after the mash. Other than the addition of the recirculation standard BIAB practices and equipment would be used. I feel this set up will be fairly easy to use and yield good efficiency.

The copper coil heat exchanger will be fabricated from 10-15 feet of ½” copper tubing, a ball valve after the pump will be used to control flow thru the exchanger. Mash in will be at the correct calculated water temp for the amount of grain used, and the water in the heat exchanger pot will be heated to the desired mash temp prior to mash in.

I have not brewed in 20 years, also I have never brewed an all grain beer. I am confident in jumping back in at the all grain level but would like any advice and input on my proposed setup. I have my keggle and I am going to order my pump and thermostatically controlled outlet. I like the fact that there is such an abundance of affordable equipment compared to twenty years ago. Please offer advice or comments.

thanks

Sam

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would try at least a few batches the simple way by mashing in and insulating your keggle for the mash rest.

For a first AG brew, keeping it simple has its advantages.

You may come to realize that the pump and automated heat input isn't really needed....jmo

 

[NeoBrew]

I agree with Wilser. BIAB is meant to be simple. You can make a great beer with a full volume mash and loose minimal heat. Wouldn't hurt to try it simple first.

You might want to read through some of these threads. Temp control, recirc, and BIAB are not as easy as one might think. If you still want to proceed, they will at least help you understand what to start looking for.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=589272
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=588812
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=585241
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=581013

I would also offer that temp control is not as easy as it might seem. For sure a HERMS setup like you are proposing is amongst the more gentle methods of adjusting mash temp, but I've found that it can be tricky to keep the flow through the bag working such that the heating coil can do it's work. I'm using RIMS, which has a higher chance of temperature swings, but I suspect you will find keeping the flow going a bit tricky.

Welcome back to the hobby!

 

[TexasWine]

I agree with the above sentiments. Start simple with an insulated kettle.

Actually, if I were you, I'd forgo spending any money on the pump, valve, copper coil, heating element, bulkhead, extra kettle for the hot water, and whatever else I forgot. Instead, I'd spend the money on a straight sided kettle and ditch the keggle. Personally I've never used a keggle, but logic and other people's experiences lead me to believe that they are anything but optimal for a BIAB application.

If after using a straight sided, insulated kettle for a while you decide your mash temp control is unacceptable, or you want an easy hands off way to do multiple rest temps, then think about going to a recirculating BIAB system. I think that if you approach your re-entry to brewing this way you'll be much less likely to waste money on stepping stones.

And FWIW, I landed on a recirculating eBIAB. A 120v element is mounted in the kettle and controlled by a PID controller from Brau Supply. The bag is supported by a BIAB false bottom from BrewHardware.com. A pump circulates the wort around. Works just like a RIMS. When it comes time to boil I drop another 120v element (Hot Rod, again from Brew Hardware) into the wort, and I'm off to the races in no time.

I started out as a stove top brewer, went electric, and a very few upgrades later, I'm where I want to be with my system.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[Beer-lord]

I've not been able to tell any difference in my beers that I've recirculated the mash and not. I was using my pump for about a year then the last 3 batches I didn't and I swear, I can tell no difference. Efficiency is exactly the same. But, try it for yourself and see what works best for you.

 

[sam_cotter]

Thanks all for advice given. I am thinking to go the simpler route to getting back into brewing. I would like to stick with my keggle for the mash tun and brew kettle due to the large capacity. My thoughts on the recirculation was the benefit of clear wort through filtering from the recirculation. Is this not a real benefit? I agree that going simpler getting back into the hobby is the way to go.

thanks
Sam

 

[NeoBrew]

My thoughts on the recirculation was the benefit of clear wort through filtering from the recirculation. Is this not a real benefit?

BIAB has pretty much dispelled the myth that clear wort makes clear beer. The extra trube settles to the bottom of the fermenter. There are plenty of threads out there on the topic. You can also consult Brulosophy.com who did an xBeeriment on it.

You will not get clear wort with a BIAB unless you drain the wort out of the vessel then remove the grain bag. When you disturb the grain bed to pull the bag out it will release a bunch of fine stuff into the wort.

 

[davemattb]

Listen to these guys. I had recently upgraded keggles and had a 3 keggle herms system. On prime day a bayou 1144 came up for 50. I figured why not. After 1 brew I'm strongly considering ditching my other components all together. Full volume mash no sparge was simple. Lost very little heat. And sooo much less gear. Kicking myself for spending all that money on the old system!

 

[TorMag]

BIAB has pretty much dispelled the myth that clear wort makes clear beer. The extra trube settles to the bottom of the fermenter. There are plenty of threads out there on the topic. You can also consult Brulosophy.com who did an xBeeriment on it.

You will not get clear wort with a BIAB unless you drain the wort out of the vessel then remove the grain bag. When you disturb the grain bed to pull the bag out it will release a bunch of fine stuff into the wort.

This is true, but clear beer is no problem from BIAB. I use a FastFerment Conical and get great clear beer. All that fine trube just sinks to the bottom and is removed in the ball. I am still amazed at how clear my beer has become.

 

[Morrey]

BIAB has pretty much dispelled the myth that clear wort makes clear beer. The extra trube settles to the bottom of the fermenter. There are plenty of threads out there on the topic. You can also consult Brulosophy.com who did an xBeeriment on it.

You will not get clear wort with a BIAB unless you drain the wort out of the vessel then remove the grain bag. When you disturb the grain bed to pull the bag out it will release a bunch of fine stuff into the wort.

I can't get clear beer if I dunk sparge and squeeze my BIAB grain bag while lifting the grain bag from the wort?

 

[Rockn_M]

When I was doing BIAB i just used a large whisk to stir things. Sometimes you just have to keep things simple.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I can't get clear beer if I dunk sparge and squeeze my BIAB grain bag while lifting the grain bag from the wort?

You will get very clear beer, but you won't have clear wort going into the carboy. I regularly see 0.75-1.00 gallons of trub/yeast/cake on the bottom of the carboy on my Hoppy BIAB batches. I just adjust up to 6 gallons final batch size and everything is good.

As far as the OP's original questions; like everyone else I would encourage you to try BIAB with just insulating the keg. I stopped recirculating the mash and couldn't be happier.

@TexasWine makes a valid point about the straight-sided pot. It will take you a batch or two to figure out how to slowly lift the bag through the mouth of the keg without overflowing a bit down the sides and out those little drain holes. It's not a big deal, but it is an inconvenience.

Regarding the element. If you can afford it, go with a TC installation method from Bobby at Brew Hardware. You will appreciate the extra $ every time you easily pop the element out of the keg to clean it.

 

[NeoBrew]

You will get very clear beer, but you won't have clear wort going into the carboy.

What BeardedBrews said. You will not get clear WORT, but it doesn't affect the final beer clarity.

 

[sam_cotter]

You will get very clear beer, but you won't have clear wort going into the carboy. I regularly see 0.75-1.00 gallons of trub/yeast/cake on the bottom of the carboy on my Hoppy BIAB batches. I just adjust up to 6 gallons final batch size and everything is good.

As far as the OP's original questions; like everyone else I would encourage you to try BIAB with just insulating the keg. I stopped recirculating the mash and couldn't be happier.

@TexasWine makes a valid point about the straight-sided pot. It will take you a batch or two to figure out how to slowly lift the bag through the mouth of the keg without overflowing a bit down the sides and out those little drain holes. It's not a big deal, but it is an inconvenience.

Regarding the element. If you can afford it, go with a TC installation method from Bobby at Brew Hardware. You will appreciate the extra $ every time you easily pop the element out of the keg to clean it.

Nice setup with your EBIAB in a keggle. I was going to go with propane for heat. What bag are you using for the grain? I am thinking that the insulated mash route maybe the way to.

Sam

 

[BeardedBrews]

Nice setup with your EBIAB in a keggle. I was going to go with propane for heat. What bag are you using for the grain? I am thinking that the insulated mash route maybe the way to.

Sam

Thanks!

I went with @TheBrewBag http://www.brewinabag.com/ since I liked the lifting straps. The bag is still in great shape after 110 gallons and about 10 months of use. I pulled a couple runs into it when I was trying to recirculate and had it clamped to the keg with spring clamps, but no functional damage. It did yellow slightly after a few batches.

I've made relatively few changes in my system but I should update that post.

I bought a new RTD and a SS Tee. The probe is now in the Tee on the inlet side of my pump. One fewer wires attached to the keg makes cleanup easier, plus it seems to do better at watching the temp.

The biggest change is that I stopped recirculating and heating during the mash. I don't have a false bottom or basket so getting the flow balanced was a pain. For me, removing that hassle and worry around pump flow, flooding, potential overheating, etc. made my brew day SIGNIFICANTLY more fun and easy. I use the PID to heat to strike temp, and to control the boil rate, and that's basically it.

If I was building again I'd buy the Auber EZ Boil and I would spend the extra to buy a pre-wired RTD probe with their XLR connections. I would also spend the extra money to get a Tri-Clamp mount for my element so that I can take it out and clean it easily. My cheap-o Chinese element is holding up fine even through fairly heavy abuse and a couple of accidental dry fires.