Looking for recipe/water advice

[premington]

OK, mash water is 4 gallons, and sparge is 6 gallons (but why not just make them both 5 gallons, since odds are that more water in the mash will give better mash efficiency?). That aside, how many grams of CaSO4 (Gypsum) and how many grams of CaCl2 (calcium chloride) do you intend to add to your 4 gallons of mash water?

Forgot to reply to this...

Bru'n Water divided it this way. I could do a 50/50 split with 5 gallons in mash and sparge. I figured it had a reason for splitting it this way, so I just went along with it.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I tentatively project that you should add 1.5 grams of CaSO4 and 1.5 grams of CaCl2 to each 5 gallons of your water (strike and sparge). Then to the 5 gal. of strike water add 2 ml of 88% lactic acid, and to the 5 gal. of sparge water add 1.4 ml of 88% lactic acid.

Or alternately, add 2.5 grams CaCl2 to both strike and sparge waters, and drop the CaSO4.

 

[premington]

I tentatively project that you should add 1.5 grams of CaSO4 and 1.5 grams CaCl2 to each 5 gallons of your water (mash and sparge). Then to the 5 gal. of strike water add 2 ml of 88% lactic acid, and to the 5 gal. of sparge water add 1.4 ml of 88% lactic acid.

Or alternately add 2.5 grams CaCl2 to both strike and sparge waters, and drop the CaSO4.

Yup! I followed Yooper's recommendation and played around with different additions in Bru'n Water last night. What I came up with for Gypsum and Calcium Chloride additions came to be very close to what you just posted. I reduced Chloride to about 50 and Sulfate to about 43. With only those two additions, projected pH estimates at under 6.0.

As for lactic acid additions, I plan to do a few test mashes to see what results I get.

This is probably all unnecessary and overkill, but I'd like to know for myself, and it's fun, as the hobby should be.

The way I see it, these threads and discussions have uncovered differing opinions on pH additions added to strike water. I understand the water pH doesn't drive the mash pH, but I'd like to see what effect different scenarios have on the mash pH. I'll come in at different strike pH amounts and plot the results.

Then I'll be able to make an educated decision on how to approach my mash with this American Ale.

 

[ajdelange]

I understand the water pH doesn't drive the mash pH, but I'd like to see what effect different scenarios have on the mash pH.

That's not so. Water pH does drive mash pH but the extent to which it does depends on the pH. If it is within the band say 6.6 - 8.3 mash pH depends almost solely on the alkalinity. Outside that band it depends on alkalinity but the pH assumes a more significant role. Thus if you acidify the strike water to mash pH the mash pH will be very different than if you don't and your water is alkaline. Ultimately it is, of course, the alkalinity which counts but you need pH to characterize the alkalinity. I know it sounds complicated and I suppose it is.

As to whether you should acidify the strike water or not that is completely up to you. It is not correct to say acidifying the mash water should not be done. It is a perfectly viable technique used by at least one large brewery I know of. At the same time it is not correct to say that adding the acid to the mash is wrong. Lots of breweries do that.

 

[premington]

That's not so. Water pH does drive mash pH but the extent to which it does depends on the pH. If it is within the band say 6.6 - 8.3 mash pH depends almost solely on the alkalinity. Outside that band it depends on alkalinity but the pH assumes a more significant role. Thus if you acidify the strike water to mash pH the mash pH will be very different than if you don't and your water is alkaline. Ultimately it is, of course, the alkalinity which counts but you need pH to characterize the alkalinity. I know it sounds complicated and I suppose it is.

As to whether you should acidify the strike water or not that is completely up to you. It is not correct to say acidifying the mash water should not be done. It is a perfectly viable technique used by at least one large brewery I know of. At the same time it is not correct to say that adding the acid to the mash is wrong. Lots of breweries do that.

Thanks for the clarification, AJ. As you know, I've received conflicting views on this, which has confused my understanding. Performing a series of test mashes with different pH levels will be an interesting little science project that should show me the effect strike water pH has on the final mash pH.

Glad you're in the forum. You certainly have a lot of knowledge to share!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your titration testing may not necessarily resolve your confusion, as the buffering capacity of the strike water is far more highly associated with its relative mineralization and alkalinity components than with its pH component. However, as long as all of your batches begin with identical water chemistry, this concern should be negated, as if your strike water is always the same your tests will thereby have meaning with relation to your specific water.

That's why in a new thread I have mused upon what you had initially suggested with regard to adjusting strike water to pH 5.4, as performing this step should to a high degree wipe out the strike waters initial buffering capacity and take it off the table.

Of course I could be all wet with this line or reasoning....

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks for the clarification, AJ. As you know, I've received conflicting views on this, which has confused my understanding.

This is the Internet. There are people here who know what they are talking about and there are people who don't (who are equally confident they do) and people in between. Unfortunately until you reach a certain level of understanding yourself you won't be able to separate these people and can easily be led astray or be confused by the misinformation that persists.

The effect of water on mash pH depends on the amount of bicarbonate present and the pH. The pH tells us the charge on a mole of bicarbonate and the amount of bicarbonate (the number of moles) multiplied by the charge on a mole is the amount of acid we must add. This is the effective alkalinity. To solve for effective alkalinity WRT one pH you must have the amount of carbo and the pH or the alkalinity WRT another pH and the pH. It takes 2 numbers to do a complete characterization. Understanding that alkalinity is the mEq difference between two pH points on the carbonic/bicarbonate/carbonate titration curve is essential to full appreciation of how this all works.