looking for mostly pre-built PID controller for ferm chamber

[SanPancho]

brewpi looks awesome- and expensive. i want the PID accuracy for my ferm temp, but i dont really need the web interface stuff.

my requirements-
-must show temp in F
- i'd prefer a ready to go unit vs a DIY build, really dont wanna wire everything up inside unit, flash the firmware,etc. (but connecting thermocouplers or SSR isnt a big deal
- web interface/graphic isnt necessary, but i'll take it if its included...

so is there a cheaper solution that's still pretty reliable? i see a alot of PID controllers on amazon/google etc. but just wondering if anyone has good things to say about a specific brand/model etc. i've got an inkbird stc-1000F, so i know their general level of chinese quality/build, but never heard of these other brands...

AGPtek
Lightobject
MYPIN
IMAGE

thanks

 

[Hex23]

Auber has some nice and affordable units. Here's a single loop unit: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=471

But they also have dual loop control unit's too.

 

[SanPancho]

ok, let edit my specs - need dual stage, and prefer SSR to mechanical

 

[SanPancho]

Actually upon doing some more homework I now see that using PID control on freezer is not great idea. Seems like freezer should just be on/off control and then a heater/fermwrap should be on the PID. So the amber single should work this way- Cold on on/off control and heat on PID ?

 

[Hex23]

It's true that PID control is inappropriate for a compressor. But don't let that limit your search. That term gets used loosely when it comes to marketing. Many "PID" controllers also offer On/Off control with hysterysis.

Is your preference for SSR due to reliability? Obviously PWM PID would normally more-frequently cycle thus pushing you toward an SSR. Also, if your hysterysis band for on/off control is narrow, it will switch more often. But I think mechanical relays are typically just fine (will last reasonably long) for light loads such as freezers and typical on/off control cycling rates.

I'm not familiar with too many plug and play systems with built in SSR, and those that do seem to be at least as expensive as BrewPi (though I admit I've not done much price comparison there).

 

[Hex23]

I should also mention that there are some downsides with std on/off control and compressor refrigeration. If you take a naive approach of using a thermowell you'll get tons of over/undershoot. Many combat this with sticking the probe on the side of the FV and covering with insulation. This works reasonably well. But I see that BrewPi seems to address this with some more intelligent control. I'm curious to see what they're doing.

 

[hopsandhops]

Brewpi has a 5 minute compressor delay hard coded when running either a profile or in "beer constant" temp mode. It's a 10 minute delay in "fridge constant" temp mode. Its at its best with a thermowell and it knows to run the fridge until it drops say 3.7* in order to drop the beer temp .1*. It will shut off the fridge before the beer even changes temperature. It's amazingly precise and cycles the compressor less than I expected.

Even with 20* ambient room temp swings, it'll keep my carboys within a .25* window.

 

[SanPancho]

im sure the brewpi is precise, but it seems like its gonna be too much effort and headache to get it working. i was actually given one and after looking up the process, i'm likely going to sell it or trade it.

i'm not a computer/sofware kind of guy, so the idea of having to deal with linux/firmware/etc seems like a huge pain in ass to me. which is why i'm looking for something more "out of the box" user friendly. if it was something i could knock out in 20-30 minute i'd do it. but the website doesnt really have a "brewpi for idiots" type manual so likely a lost cause with me.

 

[TimKennard]

I use this: http://www.boostbysmith.com/stc1000.html

Pro version with two sensors. One goes in thermowell and other measures air temp in the fridge. Can do programmed temp steps too.

 

[hopsandhops]

I saw a product a few months ago that I haven't been able to find since.. It was a 2 stage, PID-based temp controller and I think it was $159.99. It was a kickstarter that got funded and became a product, but I haven't been able to find it recently. My google-foo is broken :/

EDIT: Found it!

http://www.ohmbrewautomations.com/fermostat

It doesn't specifically say PID, but it seems to imply that functionality

 

[SanPancho]

cool. looks like i might go with the boostbysmith. the dual sensors for ambient/beer look like what is required to get the unit to "learn" to keep the chamber in a tight temp range without over/under-shooting the target. but you're right, neither specifically says PID.

the fermostat looks cool too, but it seems like for the same money you can get the boostbysmith with dual sensors and programability.

thanks to all for the advice and help!

 

[hopsandhops]

cool. looks like i might go with the boostbysmith. the dual sensors for ambient/beer look like what is required to get the unit to "learn" to keep the chamber in a tight temp range without over/under-shooting the target. but you're right, neither specifically says PID.

the fermostat looks cool too, but it seems like for the same money you can get the boostbysmith with dual sensors and programability.

thanks to all for the advice and help!

I just wanted to share my experience through a similar process, as I started down a similar path. The boostbysmith unit is an STC-1000+ with 2 probes. It's a standard STC-1000 that runs a custom firmware written by alphaomega designed to make it more user friendly for beer usage. I originally purchased a similar pre-flashed unit from blackboxbrew.

Here's a thread on that firmware: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=464348

It doesn't have any PID functionality, but is designed to allow for manual tweaking to limit over and undershoot. I wasn't using a thermowell at the time, but I eventually shut off the second probe because it seemed to be making the swings worse. A thermowell might make the second probe more useful, as it would provide a more accurate measurement of wort vs ambient temp. I started a thread to see if anyone was having better results, but didn't get much response: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=517717

I still use it, and it's a great unit, but it's controlling a freezer holding kegs where the swings aren't critical. I eventually built a brewpi for the PID control, but I understand your not wanting to build it, it was a bit of a pain. More hardware than software for me though.

I don't have any experience with the fermometer, but it seemed like a good compromise to have a form of PID functionality without having to DIY.

I just wanted to share my experience. I'm not trying to bash the STC by any means! It serves a critical role in my brewery, just not for fermenting. Any temp control is better than no temp control!

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

cool. looks like i might go with the boostbysmith. the dual sensors for ambient/beer look like what is required to get the unit to "learn" to keep the chamber in a tight temp range without over/under-shooting the target. but you're right, neither specifically says PID.

the fermostat looks cool too, but it seems like for the same money you can get the boostbysmith with dual sensors and programability.

thanks to all for the advice and help!

I can tell you with certainty the BrewBySmith is not PID, its basically a STC-1000 using AlphaOmega's STC1000+ firmware you can find in this very forum and wrapped in a box...good product but not what your asking for...neither is the Fermostat. The fermostat may say it has "Temperature prediction" or whatever its called but realistically its not possible to get very accurate without at least two probes, one measuring the beer and one measuring ambient inside the chamber. The BrewBySmith Pro sort of does this, but its not PID, your just manually hard coding in hysteresis values.

The only PID solutions as i see it for Fermentation at this point are Brewpi, a BCS(way more DIY work and expensive because its really meant for PID brewery control) and i believe that StrangeBrew Elsinore is working on PID/Ferm control at some point if its not already in there, but again your looking at way more cost and DIY than a BrewPi.

I dont think you should really be all that intimidated by the BrewPi, if you get exactly what i state in the thread and spend even 2-3 hours you could have one up and running. Its when you start to deviate and use different parts that it can become difficult, people want to expand their BrewPi's with LCD's and tons of other gizmos which is great, but not necessary by any means, the generic BrewPi is super simple to create. You literally do it once and never touch any of the software stuff again and if you do have problems theres many many dozens of people who have made one that can tell you how to fix nearly any problem in the BrewPi thread.

All the other PID's you list are only PID controllers, you will be doing a ton of DIY work exactly the same as a BrewPi to get it working(wiring up relays, etc) and end up with an inferior product. Those products you list are used more for PID controls during the brew process whether it be Electric or propane HERMS/RIMS systems that need instantaneous PID control to hold a specific temperature.

 

[Base2Brewery]

I have been using the ohmbrew fermentation controller for a few months. I have had good results with the controller. Controlling within .5-1* during the primary. I have the probe placed in the thermowell. Dual stage control is nice, easy to program temperature profiles and the SD data transfers are a nice touch. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439637621.403823.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439637787.515531.jpg

 

[SanPancho]

ok. well in the interest of making a decision already, i think im going to compromise. im gonna get one of the blackbox dual temp sensor units, and see if that can get me into a nice, tight temp range. ive made of few of my own thermowells out of some stainless tubing from amazon, so ill have one sensor in the beer and another in the ambient air. hopefully that should get me close.

and in the mean time, im going to try and scrounge up some items for the brewpi build. im hoping fuzzewuzze is legit in the 2-3 hour build time.

fingers (but not wires) crossed.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

ok. well in the interest of making a decision already, i think im going to compromise. im gonna get one of the blackbox dual temp sensor units, and see if that can get me into a nice, tight temp range. ive made of few of my own thermowells out of some stainless tubing from amazon, so ill have one sensor in the beer and another in the ambient air. hopefully that should get me close.

and in the mean time, im going to try and scrounge up some items for the brewpi build. im hoping fuzzewuzze is legit in the 2-3 hour build time.

fingers (but not wires) crossed.

The second biggest Fermenting DIY thread after building a STC1000, we'll figure out how to get you going

 

[RussPDX]

I have been going through the same process. There is now a Brewpi Spark and I saw on the brewpi site that he won't be supporting the aurduino anymore, so that is what has made me a little hesitant with going with FuzzeWuzze's build, which is a great thread and great directions.