Looking for grain mill motor advice

[Nwalesmith]

I just bought a new monster mill for a DIY mill project. I am looking for recommendations on motors. I would prefer to not use pulleys if at all possible. Suggestions/advice welcome!!!

Thanks all.

 

[P-J]

Take a look at this one:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1098
It is 177 RPM so you won't need pulleys and belts.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I (as well as others here) use this:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1098&catname=electric

Mount it, add a coupler, and you're set. Some (it seems mostly folks that haven't used it) say there isn't enough torque. I've never had problems on my 2 roller 2" monster mill.

 

[Nwalesmith]

Thanks guys, care to share a picture of your rigs? Also, I have the MM3, should I be concern about the torque...?

 

[Henrythe9th]

yes I tried it with my MM3-2.0 and it did not have enough torque
I ended with a 1000rpm motor and a 2"x9.75 sheeve running at 230RPM
the 1/3HP blower motors don't have enough torque to start with grain in hopper but has no problem once running

 

[Nwalesmith]

yes I tried it with my MM3-2.0 and it did not have enough torque
I ended with a 1000rpm motor and a 2"x9.75 sheeve running at 230RPM
the 1/3HP blower motors don't have enough torque to start with grain in hopper but has no problem once running

Henry, can you point me to where you bought your motor? What torque did the one you purchased have?

 

[P-J]

Thanks guys, care to share a picture of your rigs? Also, I have the MM3, should I be concern about the torque...?

yes I tried it with my MM3-2.0 and it did not have enough torque
I ended with a 1000rpm motor and a 2"x9.75 sheeve running at 230RPM
the 1/3HP blower motors don't have enough torque to start with grain in hopper but has no problem once running

IMHO it should have enough torque to run your mill. There is something peculiar about this motor. When it was originally marketed it was shown as a CCW motor. After a while they discovered that it would start and run in either direction so they show their wiring diagrams that way.

Now the truth of the matter about this motor. It IS designed to operate with maximum torque in the CCW direction (when viewed from wire connection end [opposite the shaft]). When reversed the torque is seriously diminished.

Note: This is due to the method used in placing the windings within the motor stator. The white wire (L1) connects to the common connection of the two coils within the motor. This is commonly connected to the neutral conductor. The blue conductor comes from the run winding within the motor and is connected to L2 or the hot conductor. This "run" winding is made from a single wrapped coil with a larger copper wire size than used in the start winding. Now - the coil that is delivered on the black wire is a double coil (2 smaller wires wrapped in parallel) of copper wire that is significantly smaller in size than the run winding. This is the "start" winding and it is powered through the capacitor so that it has a slight phase shift in the power delivered. (that sets the direction of rotation and provides the torque to initiate the motor start)

Now: when the motor is reversed (CW) the overall torque of the motor is seriously diminished as it will be running through the small wire double coil circuit in the windings.

How to get around this? Simply rearrange the rollers in your mill (flip the rollers) so that when milling your grain they will be driven in the correct direction for the motor that you have chosen. You would only use the reverse switch to clear a jam (stone?) while milling.

Here is a wiring diagram that might help you: The double throw switch is shown in the 'run' position i.e. CCW.

Anyway, I hope this give some degree of understanding about this motor.

 

[Henrythe9th]

I have purchased 2 of your gear motors and they do work very well on 2 roller mills with 1 or 1.5" rollers, but it just wont turn a MM3 2.0 3 2" rollers I tried it both ways ccw and cw believe me I did not like having to rebuild my table after it wouldn't crush Carapils (the hardest grain ever)

here's a pic excuse me I ended up with a 1/2 motor,, blower motors run @ 1000 RPMs

 

[SankePankey]

Hey-

I have the MM3 and avoided that motor with the advisement of Fred Francis (of MM). He directed me to get something with over 50 in-Lb of torque. Also, his advise was that as close to 175 RPM, the better. I was going to go for 233 RPM, but he said I'd like 175 better.

With my install, I wanted to mount the motor directly behind the mill and in the same vertical orientation for space reasons. Mine is installed in a pull-out shelf inside my brew table, at the right height so that it rests on the paint bucket when extended. It's a 100lb capacity shelf mechanism and I'm probably at around 80 lb with a full hopper. You can see it in operation on the video below (I'm still gussying my rig up a little).



So, the thing not to fret about is the actual motor. You can find ebay deals on 1725 RPM motors easy. Mine was $40 for a GE 1/3 HP motor (I wouldn't go below 1/4 HP). What you need then to avoid using pulleys is a gear reducer. I have a 10:1 gear reducer and this gives me 100 lb torque w/ the 1/3 hp motor. My gearbox was $100 new from the factory. It's aluminum, so very light. The motor is a beast and very heavy. To marry them together, you'll need a Lovejoy connector that fits whatever shaft sizes you have. You can see in the video that there was '''just''' enough room to install these all together. There's probably like 1/4" in between the hopper and the motor housing.

Here's the link. I have the RA40 model at 10:1 ratio reduction. (I was going to get the 7.5:1 ratio to give me 233 RPM and Fred advised not doing that).

http://www.groschopp.com/Products/G...htAngleRAGearboxesNEMA/tabid/269/Default.aspx

They have some going on ebay too, and that's a guy at the factory. If you want to install anything like I did (with a right angle), I highly recommend this unit as opposed to searching forever for a right angle gearmotor. You'll never find one with the right power and speed ratings. And, when you do it will be expensive. Even used. Actually, even used gearbox reducers are expensive, and all the ones I found require a separate bracket to mount vertically like I did.

This is the only one I found after a few months searching that comes stock with mounting holes in every direction including vertical. A good deal at $100.

 

[rico567]

After watching that video, I can only say that the craftsmanship on your mill setup is.....awesome. It's like a work of art. And I say that as a confirmed Corona mill / electric drill user who has no plans to change.

 

[SankePankey]

Thanks. I still have a handle to install.

 

[ClaudiusB]

Hey-
Mine is installed in a pull-out shelf inside my brew table, at the right height so that it rests on the paint bucket when extended.
.

I like the pull-out shelf idea.
Your set-up is a nice looking brewing system.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[shushikiary]

I started out on my MM3-1.5 with a bodine 1/6 hp 170 RPM 45 inch*lbs motor and found it worked great for dry grain. If I however conditioned my grain it would bind (this is at a mill gap of .035), so I geared it down to 89.5 RPM and 90 inch*lbs... still bound.

I switched to a 1/4 hp 115 RPM 120 inch*lbs bodine motor, and problem solved. If I have to I can still gear it down, but 240 inch*lbs of torque is a lot to deal with.

I should comment as well that the grain bills that bound had a lot of wheat and cara pills in them... I have yet to try rye, which I hear is hard to mill as well.

 

[SankePankey]

Thanks Claudius. Being a apartment brewer and single (and wanting to keep the girlfriend around), I had to concentrate on 2 things w/ my build: low profile design and single person operation. I'm very satisfied with how those 2 things were fulfilled. That's why I didn't want a mill table that I had to move outside for use, I just had to account for dust. Milling in my living room has been fun. If I pour the grains in my pre-hopper (wide mouth water jug) outside, all the dust stays outside. Once I bring it inside and do it like in the video, I get very little if any dust anywhere, except a little bit to vac off of the floor when done.


FYI- to everyone regarding binding/sticking: I had some issues with sticking and I thought it was the Rye in my grain bill. It was because over time, the walls of the housing (so not the rollers, what hold the rollers) had pushed away from each other so that the rollers had just enough play for some grains to get in between the rollers and the housing while milling. That stopped things real good. I just loosened everything and squeezed it all together and tightened back up to get rid of the play. Working good now again. If you have a good motor, I can't see why any kinds of grains at all would make it stick. I can hear the little rocks getting crushed right thru no issue. In fact you can hear that much in the video.

 

[Marquez]

I started out on my MM3-1.5 with a bodine 1/6 hp 170 RPM 45 inch*lbs motor and found it worked great for dry grain. If I however conditioned my grain it would bind (this is at a mill gap of .035), so I geared it down to 89.5 RPM and 90 inch*lbs... still bound.

I switched to a 1/4 hp 115 RPM 120 inch*lbs bodine motor, and problem solved. If I have to I can still gear it down, but 240 inch*lbs of torque is a lot to deal with.

I should comment as well that the grain bills that bound had a lot of wheat and cara pills in them... I have yet to try rye, which I hear is hard to mill as well.

Please tell us where you found the 1/4 hp 115 RPM 120 inch*lbs bodine motor.

Thanks!

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I used the 177RPM from Surplus Center. Here's a video of it milling 1.75 lbs of misc dark grains.



M_C

 

[shushikiary]

Ebay, ebay is your friend.

I got lucky actually. The particular bodine motor I got is custom made for 3M, but they were selling one surplus on ebay. I got it for 100 bucks. However I could not find the spec sheet on the model number given so I had to call bodine and found it was a custom motor for 3M. The guy asked me how much I payed for it and was shocked, he said they sell them as replacements to 3M at 1000 bucks a pop.

The closest model they have that is not custom to it is in the 42R series either model 634 (43 RPM at 113 inch pounds) or model 666 at 57 RPM with 135 inch pounds.

Here's the ebay link just for giggles: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=110678180407&si=vmgROfxDTDHY1s2z5GBhEKbW1Bw%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

 

[Copbrew133]

On 1-28-12 I located this Bodine motor on ebay. The guy has 7 more available for $50 + 20 for shipping. Bodine has it listed for well over $400.00. I was looking at motorizing my Barley Crusher and had already bought a weaker motor, but at this price I picked one of these up. Heres the specs and URL, any comment on it would be greatly appreciated as far as how you think it will work. Hope it helps someone.

Model Number 2262
Category Three Phase, Inverter Duty, Non-Synchronous, Parallel Shaft Gearmotor
Speed (rpm) 170
Torque (lb-in) 115
Motor Output Power (hp) 3/8
Voltage (AC) 230
Current (amps) 1.9
Rated Frequency (Hz) 60
Gear Ratio 10
Variable Speed (rpm) 18-229
Frequency Range (Hz) 10-90
Torque at 10Hz 92
Torque at 60Hz 115
Torque at Max Hz 115
Length XH (inches) 9.58
Weight (lbs) 16.5
Connection Diagram Pacesetter 230VAC
Motor Type 42R6BFPP-F2



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bodine-Pace...470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6f866786

 

[rico567]

As long as you have access to 240V / 3 phase, this thing should be unstoppable on a malt mill.....

 

[ClaudiusB]

As long as you have access to 240V / 3 phase, this thing should be unstoppable on a malt mill.....

One more option is putting a 20µF (based on 3/8 HP ), 400-450 V capacitor across one winding and the motor will run at reduced torque.

For more info search for Steinmetz circuit or Steinmetzschaltung.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[boo boo]

I used the 177RPM from Surplus Center.

I used the 105 RPM motor from The Surplus Center. Works perfect on my Barley Crusher. I have it set up on a folding table that I can collapse and store more easily than the template I went by. I don't get any dust from using it as you can see. I don't use the dining room table to crush on but just placed the mill there to take a picture.