Looking for ESB grain and hop bill advice

[henrikson]

Hello everyone!

I've brewed a couple of AG batches with mixed success using self-devised recipes (nothing my friends wouldn't drink! ). I always learn a lot and its fun, so I think its worth it.

Now I'm planning an ESB or a strong bitter and have couple of questions (also, as usual, hoping to brew the best beer to date ). Initial recipe is as follows:

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.014 (I use "Wort" -calculator on android and I'm highly suspicious of its ability to predict FG - I brewed a pretty basic tripel and it expected 1.019, ended up at 1.006 )
Color: 13SRM
IBU: 41.3
Batch size: 9 liters (~2.4 gallons)
Mash T: 67°C (152.6 F)

2.1kg Maris Otter (84%)
200g Simpsons Heritage Crystal ~67L (8%)
200g Thomas Fawcett Amber malt ~38L (8%)

20g EKG 60min (33.2 IBU)
10g Styrian goldings 15min (4.8 IBU)
10g Styrian goldings 5min (3.3 IBU)

Mangrove Jacks Liberty bell ale yeast

The things I'm concerned about:

The suitability and amount of the amber malt. I was originally planning on biscuit malt but got tempted by amber I'm hoping to get some toastiness, maybe even very slight roastiness from it. I'm also curious if I should take the possible bitterness from the amber into account with the hops?

The hops and their schedule, especially flavour and aroma hops. I've been thinking of Styrian goldings and Willamette unable to decide anything I've drank bit too much (wat?) of EKG hopped beers recently, but have some in the freezer so would like to use them up. Also, I would like to have bit "crisper" (perhaps this means more floral or slightly spicy?) hop flavours, and some distinction from the basic / standard.

Perhaps I'm a bit lost on what I want, don't know how "crisper" hops and the specialty malts would play together...
Any ideas would be highly welcome and appreciated!

 

[govner1]

I keep it simple w/ MO, C-60, & terrified wheat. As for hops I use EKG & Willamette. I usually use WY1968 (1768PC when available) but I just got some Danstar London ESB I'll use w/ my next batch in about 4 weeks.

 

[MyQuL]

Keeping the Amber in the reciepe is fine, I usually use biscuit for my bitters and use about 5%. The reason I use biscuit is because I use lager malt for my base malt for everything so I only have to buy one base malt and add some biscuit to get it a bit closer to the flavours you get from marris otter. So you could leave it out, seeing as your using MO but there's no problem leaving it in as it's not an inappropriate malt for bitters

As for the hops, depends how 'English' you want to go. Styrian Goldings is definately more traditionally English (even though its a slovenian hop), plenty of breweries use it over here for their bitters (e.g. Timothy Taylor Landlord Bitter, Courage Directors, etc) but Willamette is fine as it's similar to fuggles

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For my next (admittedly less than simple) ESB I'm thinking along these lines:

83% Maris Otter Pale UK
3.5% Victory Malt US
6.0% Crystal 60L UK
3.5% Munich Light 7L DE
3.5% Munich Dark 15L DE
0.5% Chocolate UK (targeting 14-15 SRM)
Challenger Hops (40 IBU Tinseth)
S-04 yeast (or may try Danstar London ESB followed up with Danstar Nottingham)

 

[kristiismean]

my last esb, (which was made with the dry london ESB yeast) turned out pretty good (it's a good example of an ESB) and i used ek goldings and fuggles. When I am at home i'll update with my grain bill and hop schedule.

 

[Hanglow]

I'd cut the fawcett amber, it's a great malt but its' very different from Crisp and simpsons amber - it's closer to brown really, can lend a coffee taste and aroma. You could put a bit in if you want that

If you have willamette then St Austell Tribute is a classic, albeit modern, bitter that uses late willamette and styrian goldings. Very tasty combo

 

[MyQuL]

I'd cut the fawcett amber, it's a great malt but its' very different from Crisp and simpsons amber - it's closer to brown really, can lend a coffee taste and aroma. You could put a bit in if you want that

If you have willamette then St Austell Tribute is a classic, albeit modern, bitter that uses late willamette and styrian goldings. Very tasty combo

Oh, yes. I'd forgot about Tribute. Mrs MQ's Parents live in Newquay, Cornwall so we go there about every six months. Suffice to say much St Austell's beer gets drunk

 

[Morrey]

I think you'd be pleased with the ESB you propose. In addition to Marris Otter, I use 60L and 120L in similar % proportions as yours. All good to my tastes.

I use Bullion and Fuggles, but I'd think your hop choices will be keen. You never know til you try, and if you don't, you'll always wonder.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I keep it simple w/ MO, C-60, & terrified wheat.

Terrified wheat? Is that like wheat that you strap down and force to watch scary movies? Or do you hold it in your hand and whisper to it what you're about to do it before tossing it into the pre-heated mash tun?

Jokes, of course.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I just made an ESB with MO, some crystal and Amber (5%). I personally didn't like the batch with amber as much as my non-amber and will likely leave it out. Of course I also add rye (both flake and malt) so that likely had something to do with it!!

I used brewers gold for bittering and EKG around 10, 0 and even dry hop.

I also like 1968 for yeast.

 

[govner1]

Terrified wheat? Is that like wheat that you strap down and force to watch scary movies? Or do you hold it in your hand and whisper to it what you're about to do it before tossing it into the pre-heated mash tun?



Jokes, of course.

Damned autocorrect! Torrified.

 

[govner1]

Terrified wheat? Is that like wheat that you strap down and force to watch scary movies? Or do you hold it in your hand and whisper to it what you're about to do it before tossing it into the pre-heated mash tun?



Jokes, of course.

Damned autocorrect! Torrified. But it's not "like" anything.

 

[kristiismean]

Grain Weight
Pale 2 row 10 lbs
Crystal 50 .75 lbs
Crystal 120 .25 Lbs

Hops Weight Time
East Kent Goldings 1.5 oz 60 min
Fuggles .25 oz 20 min
East Kent Goldings .25 oz 20 min
Fuggles .25 oz 0 min
East Kent Goldings .25 oz 0 min

Yeast Danstar London ESB (DRY)

 

[JKaranka]

I think you have a really good mix of malts, hops and yeast. I'd bring the crystal to below 5%. I use Crips Amber regularly in bitters, but with Fawcett I'd keep it down to around 2-3%. Styrian Goldings are absolutely perfect for that nice, fresh, floral aroma in a British pale ale. They are more citrusy to the EKG orangey flavour.

42 IBU for 1.056 is just about fine, I'd make it a tad more bitter (45). Liberty Bell should complement well the floral hops. You should really consider a small dry hops of 5g Styrians and 5g EKG. With a less malty grist, as described above, it would really make it sing.

 

[henrikson]

Thanks for the plentiful comments!

I think I'll go by reducing crystal to 6% and amber to 4%, to keep bit more color and maltiness. I figured the amber flavour will mellow out even if its too strong initially, as I tend be good with patience...
Might also try some terrification techniques on the malts if I'm feeling experimental

I'm no master with hop schedules but thought I'd throw in 5g more to both styrian additions to get around 45 IBU. Also tempted by the small dry hop!

I'm curious as to how much difference a couple of percentage in malts will cause, but I think this recipe might be nice for experimenting subtle alterations. The Austell Tribute is certainly going on the list of future brews, it does sound very tasty!

 

[Lion]

I recently did a SMaSH using Vienna malt and Aurora (Super Styrian) hops and it's delicious. It would probably fall into an ESB category or close to it.

23L
6Kg Vienna
20g Aurora 9.6% FWH
40g Aurora 9.6% 0mins
US-05

6.4% ABV
40 IBU