Looking for advice on better quality keezer parts and components

[BiteMeElmo]

LOTS of questions here. I welcome any and all advice.

I’m in the early stages of planning my keezer, and I have a general idea of the setup I want: a smallish freezer with up to 4 taps. Ball lock corny kegs (5 gallons, maybe one 3-gallon) and connectors, with one of the lines set up somehow that I can easily switch between ball lock connectors and a Sanke connector, in case I also want to throw a commercial beer in there once in awhile.

I want to do it right the first time, at least in terms of the parts I use. I plan to take my time collecting the equipment so I can buy better quality brands or types of gear. What should I look for when shopping for the following things. Also, if anyone can recommend a source to order from in Canada, that would be a huge bonus. With the Canadian dollar in the shape it’s in right now, it’s probably the worst possible timing for buying most of this stuff, but here I am.

Freezer: I’m strongly leaning toward buying new. I know there are great deals on kijiji or CL or whatever, but I like the idea of being the first/only owner as well as the general fact that newer usually means better energy efficiency. It may be one of the first things I pick up, since I can use it as a fermentation chamber while I gather the other stuff for the keezer conversion. I guess my only freezer question would be if there are any particular brands or models I should avoid (I’ll probably get something in the 5-7 cubic foot range).

Taps: Not much input needed here, I plan to go with Perlick, probably 630ss taps and stainless steel shanks. But I do wonder if there’s any advantage to going with a different model that has flow control. Is something like that needed? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to using the flow control models, especially if I haven't used a beer tap before?

Kegs: Not really sure what to ask about here. I was probably going to go with something like this, so any comments on that choice would be welcome: http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Brand_New_Stainless_Steel_5_Gallon_Ball_Lock_Keg_p/4pack-5gal-keg-new.htm

Temperature controller: I’ve already ordered an Inkbird ITC-308, which will eventually end up being the controller for a fermentation chamber. I’m actually eyeing this controller for my keezer, mostly for the sweet blue LED display (and for its well rated performance as well): http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/T...igitalPanelMount/SeriesTSX3/Ordering#ordering
For anyone familiar with the Love controllers and parts, which temperature probe should I go with? Ideally I’d like something that is waterproof.

Beverage and gas lines: What are the better brands, materials, and sizes I should look for? I was wondering if silicone is the way to go, since it can be boiled if necessary for sanitizing. Are there particular sizes or materials that one should go with, to make the whole system less prone to foaming or other issues, or ease of connecting/disconnecting?

Connectors and clamps: Any insight is welcome here. Are some better than others? Any that people tend to have issues with? I’ve read that some people have trouble with worm style hose clamps. Is there a style that works better? I suppose I could also extend that question to nipples, barbs, etc. (I’m still learning what some of those things are for). Is brass the best material for some of that stuff? Something else?

Regulator(s): I like the idea of being able to customize the pressure going to any keg in use (or the ability to purge something with CO2), so I’ll probably look for a combo of primary and secondary regulators that would allow me up to 4 separate customizable gas outputs. Is Taprite an ok brand? Is there something more highly recommended? Particular build materials I should look for? Regarding the primary regulator, what do the dual gauge models do, and would I need that with multiple secondary regulators? Is hand-adjustable preferred over the ones that you need a screwdriver for, or should brand names trump that decision?

General construction questions: What are some easier to work with insulation materials? Optimal R-values? How do I get as smooth a finish as possible when using appliance epoxy (foam roller or spray)? Is there a smooth material like MDF that is as workable, but is stronger and not as susceptible to moisture issues? I ask that question as it is specific to an idea I have for a keezer collar. Looking for something that won’t show a wood grain texture under paint.

Anything I’ve missed? Are there any other tips or words of caution I should have before I jump into something?

 

[plan_ahea]

It sounds like I'm in the same place you are. I've just started amassing parts & pieces for my (eventual) keezer build. Here are a few things I've learned/heard:

Freezer - I went with Kijiji, scored a 10 cu ft. for $50. I'm not super concerned with efficiency since the freezer really won't be on very often, it'll be drawing way less power operating at keezer temperatures than freezer temps.

Faucets - OBK has announced they'll be carrying Intertap faucets soon, and I've heard tons of good things about them. Might be worth waiting until they become available if that's something you're interested in, and they should be cheaper than Perlicks too.

Kegs - Keep an eye on Kijiji. There's a guy in my city (Calgary) who sells used kegs for $40 each. If you're going to buy new O-Rings for them, check out oringsandmore.com. I was able to buy enough keg o-rings to last a lifetime for much cheaper than anywhere else.

Regulator(s) - I'm going to aim for 2 pressures on tap, but I also want to have a dedicated "utility line" at 30-40 psi for carbonating water. I'll probably end up with a single pressure reg on the co2 tank, then 2 secondaries to get to serving pressures. I figure most of my beers will be in the standard carbonation range, but being able to serve one with higher/lower carbonation will be nice. IIRC, OBK only deals with Taprite.

I'll let those with more experience comment on the other topics. Best of luck with your build!

 

[JoshuaW]

Faucets - OBK has announced they'll be carrying Intertap faucets soon, and I've heard tons of good things about them. Might be worth waiting until they become available if that's something you're interested in, and they should be cheaper than Perlicks too.

I just got my Intertap Flow Control faucets from Australia, and I have to say, they are awesome! They were slightly cheaper than Perlicks, but not much. I also had a bunch of shipping charges though, because I ordered them from a seller in Australia. I would give some serious thought to waiting for them or ordering some. Its nice to have options.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Thanks for the tips! I'll watch for those faucets at OBK, but I haven't heard them mentioned very often. It seems that Perlick is the overwhelming favourite around these parts. I don't mind paying a bit more when getting better quality, but I'll watch for the Intertaps at OBK and try to find some reviews. BTW, how did you get that announcement from OBK? Do they have a newsletter or something I could subscribe to?

Regarding the freezer, I've been watching kijiji every day. I see lots of decent deals, but I'm just so wary about used freezers. I've gotten a bad one before, so that probably makes me a little more reluctant. But I haven't stopped looking. That'll probably be the way I go if/when I want to have a fermentation chamber AND a keezer.

I found a couple of 5 cubic foot (best size for where I intend to put it) freezers on sale at Best Buy and London Drugs, both for $199. I'm almost certain I'm going to grab one of those, I just need to decide if I want to go with a Haier or an Igloo.

I also found a LHBS very close to my work that's way better than the one near my house. Prices may be a tiny bit higher on a few things, but the convenience factor (and no shipping fees from ordering online) makes that pretty attractive too. He's got used 5g kegs starting at $70, and he makes sure they hold pressure, so that's something to think about too.

 

[TallDan]

Freezer: I went used, I figure that most of the money is in hardware that can be easily transferred to another unit if this one fails. Mine's a few years old, not old enough to be horribly inefficient.

Taps: I went with the perlick 630ss, SS flow controls were not available when i bought, so i'd consider that, but have no regrets

Kegs: I went used, but prices were different then. If i were doing it again, I would probably go with sanke sixtels.

Temp controller: I just used the coarse adjustment screw on my freezer. Was easy to do and works very well.

Beverage and gas lines: I used BevSeal Ultra and would use it again. Silicone can't stand the pressure unless you get reinforced tubing. Not sure if that is even available in sizes suitable for serving lines. I used standard red tubing for the gas side since the beer never touches that.

connectors and clamps: I got SS ball lock disconnects, because i didn't want plastic, but i'm not sure it was worth it. Sanke would definitely have an advantage here though. For clamps, oekiter is well worth it. Smaller clamps that work very well and don't constantly cut up your hands when you handle them. I also went with all SS swivel nuts.

regulators: I got a 4-way secondary regulator and always have three of the four on the same pressure anyway. Right now, all four are within a couple PSI of each other. It is nice to have, but I might try to save some money here with a two-way and a couple small manifolds.

general construction: don't have much experience here, i went with an upright freezer and have a drip tray on it. It works great for me, smaller footprint and i have four kegs in it with the top shelf plus the shelves in the door for bottle storage.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Thanks for the tips Dan! Lots to think about here so far.

 

[Phischy]

Check sears scratch and dent. I picked up a massive 20 cu ft and it had an indent on one side. No biggie to me, and it was listed off a few hundred bucks. Full Warrenton and brand new. For chest freezers you'll mostly find ones with the lid crushed in.

For beer line I went with 3/16th antimicrobial from more beer.

And if you want your faucets mounted on a collar and want a drip tray check out ACUMETALFAB.COM their work is top notch and reasonable. I have purchased two 4" towers for dorm frig conversions as well as a 24" wide drip tray for my keezer.

 

[plan_ahea]

BTW, how did you get that announcement from OBK? Do they have a newsletter or something I could subscribe to?

Check out their facebook page. They've got a great online presence. Announcements, sales, contests all show up there.
Link to Intertap info.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Check sears scratch and dent. I picked up a massive 20 cu ft and it had an indent on one side. No biggie to me, and it was listed off a few hundred bucks. Full Warrenton and brand new. For chest freezers you'll mostly find ones with the lid crushed in.

For beer line I went with 3/16th antimicrobial from more beer.

And if you want your faucets mounted on a collar and want a drip tray check out ACUMETALFAB.COM their work is top notch and reasonable. I have purchased two 4" towers for dorm frig conversions as well as a 24" wide drip tray for my keezer.

Good idea on the Sears scratch and dent! Is that something I can find online, or would I have to actually go to the store to have a look? Crushed lid doesn't matter to me, since I'm probably going to replace the lid with a piece of countertop with a tap tower.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Check out their facebook page. They've got a great online presence. Announcements, sales, contests all show up there.
Link to Intertap info.

Sweet, thanks! I don't go on facebook very much these days, but I'll definitely do that.

 

[Auger]

Around here at the Sears outlet, they don't maintain an online listing since their stock is pretty much constantly turning over. ADvantage is that if you go and they don't have somethign that works, check back in a week and something might turn up. Disadvantage is that 1) you have to go to the store to check stock, and 2) if you see something you want, you need to buy it...if you wait around for a week trying to make a decision, it might be gone by the time you figure out out.

Regarding construction materials - I would not use MDF for anything that will potentially be exposed to moisture or high humidity. You can seal it, but if you get good quality, finish grade wood (plywood, or even if you cherrypick the construction lumber) with proper sanding, you can get it smooth enough to not show wood grain under a coat of paint. Another, more inert, option, would be using FRP (fiberglass reinforced panels). They're thin so you'd need some sort of backing or frame to hang them on, but they're smooth and low maintenance once finished.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Good points Matt, and that's exactly why I'm not going to use MDF. In fact, now that I think of it I probably shouldn't use standard countertop as a replacement for the lid either, because most of those are made of a material just like MDF. My original idea was to find a piece of butcher block that's big enough to fit, and use that. I'll probably go back to that idea.

 

[agrazela]

Freezer: At 5 to 7 cuft, in order to fit enough 5gal kegs in there to support 4 taps, you'll almost certainly need to make sure you're using kegs that are not more than 8.5" diameter; this means original/used ball locks (NOT pin locks or converted pin locks!) or new ones that are relatively smaller in diameter, as the ones you linked appear to be--and unlike, say, these "torpedo" kegs at 9.125" diameter:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/torpedo-ball-lock-kegs.html

And if you're planning to put any 5gal keg(s) on the compressor hump, you're likely going to have to build your collar at least 7.5" (or even taller). That said, I've got a 7cuft GE keezer build going with 4 ball-lock cornies on the floor, and a 10# CO2 tank and a 2.5gal keg (which is wider than the cornies) on the hump, all under a 3.5" tall collar. I've seen the same GE chest freezer under a number of different nameplates:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4731051&postcount=13

(That is a great thread, by the way)


Taps: Lots of info out there about the plusses of Perlick 650ss with flow control (shorter lines needed, easy growler fills), but here's a thread bringing up some of the minuses:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=528823


Temperature controller: I know a lot of people use STC-1000's and the like mounted in the collar, and that definitely looks cool and all, but I went with a Johnson A419 mounted to the backside of the collar. I just could not figure out a way to safely install an STC-1000 into my collar that would not put live 120v wiring inside a potentially humid environment without sticking in so far (say, inside a box) that it would interfere with the ability to pull kegs in such a small keezer.

People do mount those kinds of controllers in project boxes external to the keezer, so there is that option.


Beverage and gas lines: If you want hose, I'd definitely go with something like 3/16" ID EJ Barrier tubing on the beverage side. On the gas side, I got "rooked" paying a little extra for "PVC-free gas hose," which just turned out to be EJ Barrier 5/16" ID tubing...probably, as has been said, could've just gone with basic red vinyl hose on the gas side.

But then there's also PET/poly tubing using John Guest/push-in fittings; if I had it all to do over again I'd have probably gone this way, surely on the bev side, maybe on the gas side, too.
(Definitely on the gas side if I were mounting my cylinder(s) outside the keezer, as the gas line hole(s) to drill through the collar would be smaller. Probably go all PET/push-in on my next, even bigger keezer build!)


Connectors and clamps: If you are going with soft gas hose, I like these "herbie" or "rotocon" type nylon clamps:
http://www.rotocon.com/shoponline2.html


Regulator(s): I like my Taprites. I have a primary (set to 30psi) with a "wye", one leg feeding a bank of four secondaries (feeding four kegs at all different pressures--very nice!), the other leg for purging kegs, burst-carbing, etc.

I do believe you should make sure you have a shut-off on each and every gas output, and a check valve on any gas line between a keg and a regulator.


General construction questions: I like that pink foamboard stuff for insulation, easy to cut with power tools (e.g. table saw) and glues down nicely with something like this:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pl_ca_300_voc/overview/Loctite-PL-300-VOC-Foamboard-Adhesive.htm

Tell us more about your collar idea, there might be a way to make MDF work, depending how many "layers" you are willing to build your collar from, and/or what you might be willing to coat the collar with.

 

[BiteMeElmo]

Thanks for taking the time to type up that long response agrazela, I really appreciate it.

Tell us more about your collar idea, there might be a way to make MDF work, depending how many "layers" you are willing to build your collar from, and/or what you might be willing to coat the collar with.

I haven't decided yet if it'll have a collar. If I go with that 5 cu ft. model, I may just replace the top with a piece of butcher block and mount a tower on that. Inside (as one of my ideas goes), there would be two 5 gallon ball lock cornys and also a 2.5 or 3 gallon. I haven't looked into it yet, but I was hoping I might get away with a config like that without a collar. If I can't, I may just go with the two 5-gallons, because it'll be beside a kitchen counter and I was hoping to keep the height as close as possible to level with the counter.

But when I do expand to a larger unit for a keezer, I will likely go with a collar, and here is my idea:

I wanted to do a collar that isn't stained wood. No offense to everyone who has that, they're great. It's just not the look I want for either of the rooms that the keezer may end up in. So the next best thing would be a piece of wood or MDF painted to look like it's part of the freezer.

I found a cool link on how to get a smooth shiny finish when painting, so I was hoping I could do something that looks as close to the original paint on the freezer as possible (or maybe repaint the freezer with whatever paint I use on the collar). I would definitely go with a freezer that has a smooth finish instead of that textured look that so many of them have.

At first I thought MDF would be great, since it would be so easy to pass a router over and round off some corners, and especially because it is smooth and shows no kind of grain when painted. I've seen pictures of MDF painted to a near mirror-like finish, and it inspired the idea for this.

I've since learned that I could possibly use a wood that doesn't have a strong grain pattern and then smooth it off using wood putty or wood filler and then sanding smooth. Or, alternately (or in addition to that), there are primers that have "solid fill" and can give a smooth finish with a couple of layers and sanding in between. If I end up going with the collar idea I have, I'll probably get some wood to test on and try the filler and/or primer process.

Or I could go with MDF and find some way to seal it. But it only takes one ding to potentially break through the finish, and then the MDF is exposed to moisture again. Now that I typed it out, I'll probably chuck the MDF idea and go with wood. That'll get me as close to the finish as I want with far less worry about how moisture could affect it.

 

[plan_ahea]

Sweet, thanks! I don't go on facebook very much these days, but I'll definitely do that.

If you subscribe to their page, you can set up notifications to get emails whenever they have a new post. It'll prevent you missing anything from them if that's what you want!