LHBS Manager Here...What Do You Want From The LHBS?

[TasunkaWitko]

I love my LHBS, too - the only problem is that it is over 200 miles away. I use it whenever I happen to be in that town, and have occasionally phoned in orders that were promptly delivered via USPS.

The only request that I would have from the one I use is to be able to carry out transactions via email or even social media. By phone is not always easy, in my situation.

 

[Mainer]

I love my LHBS, too - the only problem is that it is over 200 miles away. I use it whenever I happen to be in that town, and have occasionally phoned in orders that were promptly delivered via USPS.

The only request that I would have from the one I use is to be able to carry out transactions via email or even social media. By phone is not always easy, in my situation.

Classic SLHBS. (Semi-Local Home Brewing Shop).

 

[pshankstar]

Here is my input regarding my LHBS. Please keep in mind we have three of them in the area but they are all owned by the same company. They range in 15, 25 & 40 mins away from me. I've only been to the one 15 and 25 mins away. These shops are hydroponics stores with home brewing equipment. With all of that being said here we go.

Positives:
1. Close proximity (at least one of them).
2. Usually have the grains I need in a pinch.
3. Weigh out your own grains.
4. Mill to crush your grains if needed.
5. Has bottle caps, hoses, keg parts, etc... if I need them right away.

Negatives:
1. Staff usually seems put off by any questions I may have. Even when asking where something is for home brewing. Yet if someone is in there for hydroponics, its like a whole different person.
2. Staff isn't familiar with home brewing. If they are out of a grain or hop I'm looking for, they don't know a good substitution. Instead they provide me a print out (or look at it themselves) with substitutions. I could look this up myself. I understand not knowing every possible substitution but it would be nice for some experience and suggestions from someone who home brews.
3. Liquid yeast is hit or miss most of the times.
4. Hops stored in a fridge like the yeast, not a freezer.
5. One visit I asked if I could buy a sack of 2-row that was in the corner and was told sure. While being rung out by the associate that said it was ok, said (kind of snarky) "Next time call before next time so it doesn't mess up my inventory and ordering". Well if it was going to be an issue, you should have said something when I asked if I could buy the sack today. Needless to say, I now do group buys with my home brew club for much cheaper. But this type of attitude and what not was a turn off.

Things I would like to see and others have mentioned as well (no specific order):
1. Carry local products (hops, cider, honey, grains, etc...). I think this would be awesome and I would support it.
2. RO machine would be great!
3. CO2 refill or exchange option.
4. Friendly staff! Knowledgable and friendly staff would be even better!
5. Offer brewing courses/classes or something similar. A LHBS in MD every once and a while has a class where people sign up and pay, but can come in a brew a batch of beer at their location. Many people don't want to invest in the equipment needed before they try brewing. This would be a great way to get people interested with minimal monetary investments.
6. Have recipes printed out for people to take and try.
7. Customer loyalty program of some sort would be nice. 10% off coupons after every X number of purchases or after X amount of money spent. 15% off coupon for your birthday month. Or something similar.
8. Have some home brews available for tasting (if possible with state and county laws). This could be tied into the recipes available for customers to take home. If you make one of these recipes and people try them, they may want to brew it too. Maybe have the ingredients available as a "kit" marked for X price. Maybe slightly cheaper than what it would cost for them to piece it all together at your shop. For example, you have a Blonde Ale on tap and the recipe available for customers to take. It costs the customer $22 for all the ingredients if they were to pick it out themselves. But you have it all bundled together for $20 ready to go. I don't know how feasible this would be but just a thought.
9. FRIENDLY STAFF!

I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck! I wish I could open my own LHBS but it's not in the cards right now. So I'm jealous.

 

[dirtybear7]

Fresh Yeast and quality products, as others have mentioned. Brooklyn Homebrew, R.I.P., used to be my local until they closed. They always had very fresh yeast. It was a small store, they could run out of strains, but if they had it in stock, it was fresh. Same could be said about merchandise, If they sold it, it was a quality item. I purchased two awesome Italian ball lock kegs that were obviously well made. My current LHBS is the opposite. They always have the strains of yeast I want, too bad it is usually almost expired. They have actually told me to ignore the printed date! Sorry I think White Labs and Wyeast know more about their products lifespan than the shop owner. Unfortunately same goes for the equipment. I purchased a ball lock keg there last year that was really sub par quality. It was from India, which in itself isn't bad, but the connectors are odd in that they are pin lock sized. The poppets and lid are also weird. The whole build was cheap. Shame on me for not inspecting better prior to purchase. I just didn't imagine that one keg would be that much worse than another. I'd rather pay more for quality. One last thing, don't make me pay extra to mill the grain.

 

[brick_haus]

You will need tolerance to cater to whiners.

 

[dirtybear7]

You will need tolerance to cater to whiners.

You will need tolerance to cater to your paying customers, you know the people who keep you in business.

there I fixed that for you.

 

[asutke781]

One thing I have to add to this discussion is make sure your staff knows they can say "I don't know" if they don't know something. One of the LHBS near me used to be my favorite to go in to, it has a tap room attached to it and a pretty awesome selection of grains/hops. About 6 months ago they hired a guy to run the shop portion by himself so he is the only one there whenever I go in and he gives awful advice. Two of my favorites are "We don't stock used kegs there is no market for them" and "Belgian Candi sugar is all unfermentable gravity points you are throwing in your beer". These are things that I know aren't true. I'm not going to buy your $139 new keg that is "good deal" when I can order two used ones online shipped for less than that.

Discounts on nearly expired products would be nice too. Just like a grocery store, mark some of that stuff down so it sells and you don't have to write it all off.

One last thing, cleanliness. I know grain is dusty but if it looks like you haven't cleaned in a decade then maybe you should think about picking up a rag and wiping some stuff down.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

The strengths of my LHBS are keeping their posted hours, in other words they're open when they say they are. They have parts, hardware, bottles, caps etc. they stock a variety of ingredients, including properly stored yeast. The owners are running the business and they provide excellent customer service and are very knowledgable about brewing and wine making, and answer questions, and even provide reassurance for newbies.

Sometimes I have asked for hops they don't happen to carry ( if it doesn't sell it can't take up self space and then end up in the discount bin- it's just good business) but they will offer information about good substitutions. I'm happy to support them, and sometimes the online shops can undercut their prices even with shipping added, on fermentor kettles and kegs, but when it comes to getting hops, grain and yeast I visit the LHBS.

 

[mmiddleton]

Something that just occurred to me that I like about my LHBS' loyalty program is, I don't need to keep a card in my wallet. They use my phone number, so as long as I'm still able to remember that, I'm golden

 

[kaisetti]

My old LHBS would sell 50lb sacks of base malt (2-row, marris otter) at the bulk ~1/2 the per lb price, and keep it there for you on an account as part of their rotating stock.

The customer got the benefit of buying in bulk without having to store it or own their own mill, and the shop was guaranteed a repeat customer.

My LHBS does the same thing - we might be going to the same one. That is honestly a big draw for me.

Since this is a hobby for me and takes me away from the humdrum of life, I enjoy taking my time at the LHBS, chatting with staff, measuring out my grains (which they have a huge variety in tubs that I can measure out in the tiniest of increments if needed), perusing the hop and yeast refrigerators, and looking at the different equipment. I always feel welcomed there and really enjoy going. My 5 year-old daughter likes to go with me because 1) she likes to make beer with me, and 2) they have a small corner with kids toys she can play with while I get my ingredients together. It's a win-win!

They have (or used to have) classes for beginners and those looking to make the leap to all-grain. I would like to see more informational/educational meetings, and maybe some draft homebrew to try while shopping. The only homebrew-related online shopping I've done is for draft equipment they didn't have in the store - otherwise, I shop exclusively at my LHBS.

 

[Vandulus]

I generally like my LHBS, but here are a few things I really wish they'd address:
1) Need better lighting - it's somewhat dim in the homebrew supply section and makes looking at labels challenging
2) Fix the mill - I have my own now, but their mill has been giving inconsistent grinds for almost a year now. If you're going to charge your customers $1.99 per lb for grain (or $1.59 for 10+ lbs), spend the money on a new mill. Oh and buy a real ventilation system while you're at it!
3) Spring clean every once and a while. It's not terrible, but it certainly doesn't help. I suspect part of the problem is they way they vent the mill.
4) Run sales more than once a year. Other than a 10% off sale at Christmas time, everything is full price all of the time
5) Have more contests and events It was great they had a BJCP certified judging for homebrew last year and Dogfish Head in, but how about one every month or two?

 

[madscientist451]

LHBS people seem to have a bad rap around here, so, tell me what you want of a LHBS: and, go!

High prices will make me avoid your store. So set your prices at or below MoreBeer and you'll get plenty of business.
Have a web page that accurately shows what you have in stock.
You have 40+ Malts and hops? List what they are and when you run out of something, indicate that on your web page. Have a decent mill that crushes the grain properly. Have plastic bags and a heat sealer for customer's grain.
Have staff that know what they are doing and what they are talking about.
Have a decent inventory of items so that I know I can get what I need when I'm there.
Sponsor home brew wine and beer clubs and invite them to have meetings at the store.
The above suggestions will build customer loyalty and lead to important repeat business.

 

[Grinnan5150]

Every HBS I've ever been in the owners and/or employees always seem to have a snobby or holier than thou attitude. Every shop I've been to has always been great at making me feel stupid if I ask a question that apparently everyone should know the answer to.

 

[apl_seed]

I want people in the store who actually like to make beer, not just a sale.

 

[motosapiens]

You will need tolerance to cater to your paying customers, you know the people who keep you in business.

there I fixed that for you.

lol, but some of them are whiners. I managed a retail bicycle shop in college, and I loved the work, but there is no doubt that a certain small percentage of customers create more work and annoyance than they are worth. The key is to encourage them to shop elsewhere without pissing them off, lol.

I tried to think of some things I would want in an LHBS that my local shop (homebrewstuff in garden city ID) doesn't already do, and I couldn't think of any. They do the virtual sacks of grain for base malts so I can buy in bulk without the hassle, they stock lots, at reasonable prices, the staff brews, so they are reasonably knowledgeable, they have 10+ rotating commercial micros on tap so I can have a beer while measuring out grains, they seem to have pretty fresh yeast (oldest i've seen is 3 months or so from mfr date, but maybe I am buying the popular yeasts), they are open evenings, host the local homebrew club, exchange co2 tanks, and rent various kinds of specialty equipment.

I guess my only minor complaint is that their mill is adjusted a bit loose. My efficiency went from mid 60-s to high 70's when I got my own mill.

 

[akthor]

I can never go to one LHBS to fill my grain bill. One or more of the ingredients I need are always missing. Forcing me to find them at another LHBS which really isn't local anymore.

 

[BeardedBrews]

The best LHBS I've ever been to was actually a bar / taproom that also stocked brewing supplies. The retail space was attached but separate, and people shopping for 2-Row could stop by and share a pint in the front. It really encouraged enjoying and talking about beer, and it gave me a reason to want to go to the LHBS and hang out. Avoiding the grocery store experience.


As far as the actual retail space:

1. Store Hours - 8:00-4:00 Monday through Friday might be great for the employees, but it just isn't realistic for retail. I brew in the evenings and on weekends, and those are the times I'm most likely to be able to shop. https://www.brewersassociation.org/press-releases/aha-infographic/ Most brewers are working a 9-to-5 and have a family, they need to squeeze the brew shop in during lunch breaks and after work on the way home.

2. Value proposition - Many folks have talked about a loyalty program, this is a great idea. If 2-Row is $1.60/lb on the shelf, but after spending $X, or buying X pounds, the price changes to $0.80/lb, I will keep coming back for sure.

3. Treat your ingredients well - Do not show me a big glass-front freezer in front of a window that has 30 lbs of hops in little clear plastic zip-lock baggies! I know you buy in bulk and repackage, but go to the effort to buy metalized baggies and vacuum seal them. Same with yeast, keep it fresh, even if it means some varieties have to be special ordered.

4. Make a plan for the types of customers you will see - Your sales guys need to be equally comfortable talking to someone who is brand new (let me walk you through using our extract kits, they're super easy) as well as someone who clearly already has their shopping list (have you thought about keeping some extra x-y-z on hand at your house).

5. Be involved in the local brewing community - Design your space big enough so you can host brew club meetings. If your town doesn't have an active brew club, make sure one of your employees is friendly and pretty and make them start one for you.

6. Watch the Prices - Northern Brewer has had that $100 "everything to brew" kit available for so long because it hits a sweet spot. Not everyone wants a top tier or brew-easy. And as much as it sucks to say it, I'm not going to pay $100 for a chrome faucet and shank at the LHBS when I can get a SS Perlick and SS Shank from BeverageFactory for $60.

 

[NadoHawk]

A lot more brew hardware like stainless steel fittings. I usually have to buy from 3-5 different stores to get what I need for a particular brew project.

 

[kaisetti]

Since this is a hobby for me, I'm a weekend brewer and store hours are important to me. Sometimes, I might get a surprise few hours to brew on a Sunday I hadn't planned - only, my LHBS is closed on Sundays. Weekend hours are important to me.

 

[Bobby_M]

don't make me pay extra to mill the grain.

I have to ask why you think a value added service should be free? Weighing out grain in a bag takes 5 minutes. Milling it adds labor and machine costs. It saves you from having to buy your own mill. Another way to look at it is, why should people that take whole grain away have to pay the same amount as someone who gets it milled?

 

[akthor]

The LHBS I've been to had a mill but you had to mill it yourself. No charge.

 

[pshankstar]

The LHBS I've been to had a mill but you had to mill it yourself. No charge.

My LHBS has a mill, you weigh out your own grains and milk it and they still charge you $0.10/pound for milling it yourself.

I was just there today. Walked in and saw new hops from BSG there. But on the floor in little baskets. Thought they were selling old hops on sale to make room in the fridge (not a freezer). Nope it's new hops they have in. In the fridge they still have a lot of the old packaging hop union hops (1oz bags).

Told myself today I'll no longer buy hops from there unless it's dire. So don't do this OP.

 

[Horseflesh]

$0.10/lb is not much but man, I'd spend a million bucks on my own mill before I'd pay it. Not charging for milling feels friendly. That is how both of my shops operate.

 

[Dmlsys23]

When I order a grain mill at the end of June, I expect it to be there by the middle of February. Not the first time my LBHS's supplier had failed me and FB messaging my LBHS's owner just got me "I'm really sorry! I'll contact them tomorrow."

Do act like my LBHS and give me a full refund and the mill when it finally arrives

Do not act like my LBHS and let it get to that point. 8 months is insane.

 

[mashinary]

I have two near me, and both are great shops and I have no complaints. I feel pretty lucky really, and I should probably take them all beer, now that I think about it...

 

[Bobby_M]

$0.10/lb is not much but man, I'd spend a million bucks on my own mill before I'd pay it. Not charging for milling feels friendly. That is how both of my shops operate.

I guess I understand what you're saying but I'll give you my perspective as a shop owner. We have our mill in the loading dock area because I am trying really hard not to coat the entire shop (where we have black metal shelving) with a layer of dust that needs to be wiped down daily. Because of that, staff has to mill the grain so that is labor time consumed. Besides, I'm not crazy about letting customers operate a motorized mill with 2" rollers. We have a mesh guard on it, but people do stupid things sometimes.

There is a distinct cost difference between milling and not milling. I charge 2 cents per pound to mill.

I think what it really comes down to is what the total cost of a batch of grain. I only get $1.10 / LB for 2row, milled $1.15. My next closest competitor (geographically) gets $1.49. They also happen to charge $.10 more for milling, but even if they threw it in for free, would you shop there because they offer friendly free milling service?

 

[javert]

Every HBS I've ever been in the owners and/or employees always seem to have a snobby or holier than thou attitude. Every shop I've been to has always been great at making me feel stupid if I ask a question that apparently everyone should know the answer to.

That's certainly an issue, but after going to many shops where the employees are totally clueless about what they are selling and you actually have to tell them what goes with what, I prefer them to err on the side of knowing too much they may be arrogant.

Make absolutely sure that, besides basic manners, the employees at the counter know well the brewing process and have some passion for the process.

 

[Horseflesh]

I guess I understand what you're saying but I'll give you my perspective as a shop owner.

That's totally fair and I guess it is also fair to say I was exaggerating and wouldn't spend a million bucks on my own mill. Total cost out the door is pretty important! But the way things are priced also conveys they shop's attitude. For some reason, to me, that dime per pound is just enough to feel, well, like I am getting nickel-and-dimed. I understand it's a negligible expense compared to all the other expenses in homebrewing, it just feels bad!

Your 2 cents per pound, on the other hand, is low enough that I'd wonder why you're charging it at all. I'd pay it without complaint I guess, especially if I understood the total costs of all my options. But I'd also wonder why you just didn't raise the price somewhere between 1-2 cents and eliminate the extra line item.

My expectations have probably been shaped by my own shops, both of which have free DIY milling. If I was charged for milling when starting the hobby I might not feel this way.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

My LHBS offers a good selection of loose grains that you measure and mill yourself in-store (if you want, no charge). I did order a recipe pre-milled once, but I don't recall if they charged for the service. Always do it myself now though.
I buy everything but RO water at this store; yeast (multiple brands, liquid and dry), hops (foil packages in walk-in fridge room 1 oz pellet or 1 lb. whole). Honestly I don't look at the prices much...I need what the recipe calls for, so just buy it. The grains range from $0.99 to $1.99 a lb and they also sell by the ounce if they have it in bulk.
Otherwise a full selection of 1 lb bagged grain is there.
They also stock local Michigan malt and hops when available.
I haven't bought much equipment there but they have everything pretty much.
The staff never fails to come check on us (HB customers) to see if we have any questions or need any help.
My only complaint would be that their on-line store could be kept more to date. It's pretty bad so I don't even bother looking to see what they have in stock. Luckily I haven't had too many things I couldn't get, but a couple times had to make some subs.

 

[dirtybear7]

I have to ask why you think a value added service should be free? Weighing out grain in a bag takes 5 minutes. Milling it adds labor and machine costs. It saves you from having to buy your own mill. Another way to look at it is, why should people that take whole grain away have to pay the same amount as someone who gets it milled?

Simple courtesies, like not nickel and diming customers for milling grain is one way a small home brew business retains and creates repeat customers. The shop makes more money on recipe grains than bulk ones too. So you should in essence make it as easy as possible to buy grain "over the counter" as opposed to buying a mill and going bulk. I feel it is also better to let the customer scoop & weigh their own grain. Actually my current LHBS scoops and weighs the grain themselves. It creates an annoying bottle neck and wastes time an employee could be helping some one else. I have had to stand around waiting for the one employee to finish scooping and weighing the grain of who ever is in front of me. If you want to just buy one small item, get in and out, too bad, the one employee is busy. Once it is my turn, I have to tell the employee each grain I want, with the amounts I want. I have to hope they care enough to give me what and how much of what grain I'm looking for. My last LHBS (I moved) would let you get and weigh your own grains. Once they rung you up and confirmed your recorded weight was correct, they would then mill it for free. It is really just a small cost of doing business. Their weighing and milling only took an extra few moments.