Legalities of bartering with home brew

[olllllo]

I can put you in contact with an attorney that will tell you that bartering, trading, selling homebrew is illegal.
And this includes getting ingredients for you etc.


Don't DM me if:
1) You want to remain blissfully unaware of the law.
2) You think you are AL Capone. (they got him on the tax thing you know).
3) You want to post like you think you found a loophole.

Or you could just take me word for it.

Also. There is the law and what your state's liquor agents decide. They are not necessarily the same thing. They generally don't err on the liberal side of legal interpretations.

 

[Revvy]

I was going to post an ad on craigslist offering to barter homebrew for some work around the home. I am still hesitant, but I think I will go for it!

And more than likely one of our members will then start a thread about the "idiot" trying to barter with his homebrew. That's one of the fun things we do on here...like this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/dont-sell-your-home-brew-craigslist-236624/?highlight=craigslist

 

[Airborneguy]

Give him credit for "least knowledgeable first post" at least.

 

[Homercidal]

So happy a guy at work offered to pay for me to brew him a batch of Stout. He and his wife both liked my samples. Now to figure out if I can do this legally somehow...

 

[olllllo]

So happy a guy at work offered to pay for me to brew him a batch of Stout. He and his wife both liked my samples. Now to figure out if I can do this legally somehow...

Sure.

Start by applying for your Federal brewers permit.

 

[ACbrewer]

I wonder if you could do this by brewing at the house of the person who purchased the kit? Then split the results? If both A and B do the work, is it A's because he bought the ingredients? or B's becasue his equipment? or A's and B's?

BTW, as for Yoopers statement of '6pack' gift I think it varries by state. In my state (VA) you can gift 1 gallon/ year (check before you go to court )

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

I've always been of the opinion that "it's only illegal if you get caught"...

The likelihood of you getting caught is really small, unless you do something stupid, like POST ABOUT YOUR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES ON A PUBLIC WEBSITE...

I'm wondering if the 1st forum post bump of this thread was a troll...

 

[Homercidal]

Sure.

Start by applying for your Federal brewers permit.

Nah, there's GOTTA be a way to brew beer and sell it without paying any taxes, or breaking the law. There just HAS to be! Come on, guys, THINK! How can I make money off of my homebrew??

 

[ChuckO]

Nah, there's GOTTA be a way to brew beer and sell it without paying any taxes, or breaking the law. There just HAS to be! Come on, guys, THINK! How can I make money off of my homebrew??

Start instructing people in the art of home brewing. Go to their house with your equipment. Sell them the ingredients, fermenter and bottles, or lease them the fermenter and bottles. Teach them how to brew in their own homes before they invest in the remainder of the equipment. That way you aren't doing the brewing. In some states you might need a business license though.

 

[Revvy]

Chuck, homercidal's making a joke. Hence the wink

 

[Homercidal]

Chuck may have a point though. Technically, you could offer services to people as long as they are in their own home and basically pitching the yeast. It's not the same thing as selling your own, but probably as close as you can get - legally...

 

[ChuckO]

Chuck, homercidal's making a joke. Hence the wink

Revvy,

So was I. Imagine the work needed to move your equipment to someone else's home vs. the fee you could charge. It's a guaranteed money looser, you couldn't pay for mileage at today's prices, let alone the loss from damage, etc.

 

[olllllo]

Revvy,

So was I. Imagine the work needed to move your equipment to someone else's home vs. the fee you could charge. It's a guaranteed money looser, you couldn't pay for mileage at today's prices, let alone the loss from damage, etc.

Its called a BOP and it is also regulated; you can't provide any physical brewing assistance. No racking, pitching, nothing.

 

[Bobby_M]

Isn't the BOP model and all the regulation surrounding it based on the fact that it is the business owner's premises? I know the two BOP's in NJ ferment on site so it clearly doesn't fall under home brewing.

If you offered home brew consulting you could charge people to show them how to brew, sell them ingredients, etc but your presence in the whole process doesn't change the fact that someone fermented beer at home for their own consumption.

The more gray area is if you physically brew it and pitch the yeast. But still, it is made, fermented, and consumed at someone's home.

 

[Airborneguy]

If you offered home brew consulting you could charge people to show them how to brew, sell them ingredients, etc but your presence in the whole process doesn't change the fact that someone fermented beer at home for their own consumption.

I think this would be perfectly legal. The key illegality is selling homebrew; the protagonist is not doing that in any way, shape, or form here.

 

[olllllo]

Hey remember. A few decades ago when people would try to get you to hire them as stereo purchasing consultants or computer buying consultants.

Seems like the same bad idea.

 

[klyph]

I brew on my system in my buddy's basement, and we split the batches. He told me that, for legal reasons, we have to hold hands when we pitch the yeast, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Airborneguy]

Seems like the same bad idea.

Doesn't make it illegal though. I don't se there being a big market for it. It seems like the natural progression is to become interested, then learn either on your own via reading, or join a club. How many of us would have paid someone to "teach" us to brew after buying all of the equipment? I bet BoP business mostly cater to people who want a "taste" of brewing, or want to try it out before they buy the expensive equipment.

 

[olllllo]

Doesn't make it illegal though. I don't se there being a big market for it. It seems like the natural progression is to become interested, then learn either on your own via reading, or join a club. How many of us would have paid someone to "teach" us to brew after buying all of the equipment? I bet BoP business mostly cater to people who want a "taste" of brewing, or want to try it out before they buy the expensive equipment.

Teaching is not illegal. This was about material gain in exchange for homebrewed beer which is.

 

[wildwest450]

I brew on my system in my buddy's basement, and we split the batches. He told me that, for legal reasons, we have to hold hands when we pitch the yeast, but I'm not sure about that.

As long as that's all you're holding.


_

 

[malkore]

I'd say 'no'.

Therefore, you just give them homebrew, and they give you services. Its not an exchange, its a gift.

 

[klyph]

As long as that's all you're holding.


_

You should see how we aerate the wort!

 

[ACbrewer]

Doesn't make it illegal though. I don't se there being a big market for it. It seems like the natural progression is to become interested, then learn either on your own via reading, or join a club. How many of us would have paid someone to "teach" us to brew after buying all of the equipment? I bet BoP business mostly cater to people who want a "taste" of brewing, or want to try it out before they buy the expensive equipment.

The BoP model is useful to a few different people. 1. The new person who wants to try without commiting to all the equipment - although given the cost of one BoP experience, buying buckets is less expensive, unless 2. the space issue of having brewing equipement - basically you are not just renting gear, but space and most people are happy to not have stuff that they might not use again. 3. Some BoP's go larger (like 10 or 15 gal) and you could do the brew as a group thing with some office people either sanctioned - ie team building - or not - just a bunch of friends brewing. This has the advantage that if you aren't a high volumne drinker.

But most of the forum people here are probably at most once or twice that they'd do a BoP and then only if they were going with someone. Another nice feature of the BoP is that they can help until the yeast is pitched, and they take care of all cleaning/sanatizing. Think of all the people who go to those kitchens and make all the weeks meals at once and then bring them home.

 

[ACbrewer]

You should see how we aerate the wort!

In some states I understand that is illegal, in others it is required to make it jointly....

 

[MalFet]

I'd say 'no'.

Therefore, you just give them homebrew, and they give you services. Its not an exchange, its a gift.

This sounds a lot like the "we're not selling beer, we're selling cups" that lands a lot of fratboys in jail every year. It's a "gift", but it's a gift predicated on receiving a gift of equal value...i.e., an exchange.

 

[Pumbaa]

fawk it . . .

Do what you want. Dont be stupid about it. Know who you're dealing with. Dont get caught . . . And if ya do, chalk it up as a learning experience on what not to do if you are trying to stay under the radar. Simple enuff

 

[Homercidal]

Teaching and BoP is not a bad idea, but it will not be taken up by a lot of homebrewers, especially the ones with fancy systems that don't have an easy way of hauling it. Personally, if the RIGHT person were to ask, I'd probably haul my stuff over to their house and show them how to brew.

But honestly, at this point you've made it not worth the effort to brew beer for money. For me it would have to be a friend or potential future brewer, not for someone who just wants to buy my beer. And then, they could come over to MY house and be shown the ropes.

But yeah, I can see this as a way (a very inefficient way) of recouping the material cost of brewing for someone else legally.

Pippa...

 

[Amber_Logger]

From a legal standpoint, trading beer for goods/services without being properly licensed would constitute a penalty by law. However, the law states you are innocent until proven guilty, therefore if you decide to go ahead and provide this barter arrangement, make sure you do not get caught.

Now, there are some technicalities you would want to keep in mind such as; since your beer is not commercially brewed, if the person you provided the brew to gets sick or has an allergic reaction to it, this person(s) could call you out on it. Taking that even to small claims court could get you into trouble real fast and real hard. Another technicality could be something as small as someone not liking the taste. There are no guards against this, it being a barter environment without any legal representation backing you, so you are putting yourself out there.

I know about this because I have a few lawyer friends that I have been able to pick their brains over time.

 

[klyph]

I know about this because I have a few lawyer friends

Good enough for me!

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Good enough for me!

It's just like going to law school and passing the bar.