Kefir cheese - please tell me all about it.

[Johntodd]

I'm an experienced Kefir maker, but took a long hiatus from it.

So, I've got my new grains and am waking them up. When they are ready to rock some cheese (after a few weeks multiplication), I'll be ready to start.

I'd really love to make a Kefir Bleu. And a Kefir Camembert. And Kefir Mozzarella. And any cheese that there is.

Those of you who have made Kefir cheese, please tell me your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks!
-John

 

[bernardsmith]

l use kefir as the culture for all my cheeses but I would not call such cheeses kefir cheese. I have , however, made a batch of cheddar from a gallon of kefir (made from my grains) but the curds were not as firm as they are when I use milk, although I was able to press the cheese and it turned out OK but not perhaps just as good as the cheeses I make from milk - I think because of the curds that are already in kefir I need to use a different dose of rennet but I am not sure whether I need to use more rennet or less rennet... I have not experimented using different amounts of rennet...
I tried to make a Mozzarella from kefir and that was a sorta kinda disaster although I was able to salvage it as a paneer...

 

[Johntodd]

@bernardsmith

I've seen nice looking cheese wheels and stuff on the net made with Kefir. So I'm wanting to try it. I'm also a very experienced cook, vintner, brewer, and beer drinker.

Please tell me some more about your kefir-based cheeses. What kinds do you make? What do you think are the differences between K and rennet cheeses? Tell me everything you know about K-cheese.

I'm not going to get any rennet if I can make cheese from the K.grains I already have. They renew - rennet does not.

Thanks so much!
-John

 

[bernardsmith]

Here's one site I used to learn more about kefir cheese http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir_cheese.html

but I think unless you really age the cheeses kefir cheese (without rennet) is far more crumbly than paste like and I prefer a cheese with a paste rather than a cheese that tends to crumble. The few times (two or three only) that I have tried to make a kefir cheese I have also added rennet. I don't pretend to have ANY knowledge about kefir cheeses other than having allowed gallon batches of kefir to drain through cheese cloth and be pressed. I suspect that given the low pH of the curds (the high acidity) you are quite limited to the kinds of cheese that kefir curds can make.. BUT I have only ever used kefir as my inoculant and make made feta (and similar), haloumi, cheddar, chevre, Caerphilly (and yogurt) all successfully with kefir - Kefir , as you must know contains both thermophilic and mesophilic cultures so it will culture at both lower and higher temperatures. But rennet is not an analog for kefir. Kefir is what cultures the milk - providing flavors and acidity. Rennet is an enzyme that "sets" the milk. Doesn't add any bacterial cultures to the milk. It simply coagulates the milk. David Asher's lovely book The Art of Natural Cheesemaking would be very useful. He uses kefir as his culturing agent but uses rennet (his preference is for animal rennet. As a vegetarian I use either microbial rennet or vegetable rennet)..

 

[Johntodd]

Ah, yes! Dom's site is da' bomb! Been reading that since the early 00's.

I like his cheese. At least the pix looks great.

Thanks for the braindrops! I'll put them to good use.
-John

 

[Johntodd]

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir_cheese.html#Kefir-cottage-cheese

Here's something from his site. He heats plain milk and then adds kefir. I suppose this both pasteurizes the kefir and helps get a clean break. Do you have any thoughts on this process?

 

[Johntodd]

OK, I've got some fresh Kefir-Laban chilling in the fridge. Strained it through an old T-shirt. It's a really shirty cheese! < rimshot! >

Seriously, I seasoned it with S+P, and a touch of garlic, dill, and oregano. It already tastes amazing. Can't wait till tomorrow!

 

[bernardsmith]

OK but that's a soft cheese - he makes a hard cheese too from kefir... but the photo seems to suggest that this is quite crumbly..
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/images/cheez-rounds.jpg

 

[Johntodd]

My shirt cheese turned out wonderful. A brilliant first attempt.

Can anyone tell me about using baking soda to calm the acidity? I mean perhaps after draining the curds. If I understand correctly, this would affect what microbiota can grow in there. I'd like less acid but don't want to eat bad bugs.

Thanks!
-John

 

[bernardsmith]

How about removing some of the whey and adding water...before you press the curds. That is a conventional way of preventing a too great drop in pH.

 

[Johntodd]

Will try! Thanks!

 

[bernardsmith]

Many washed cheeses replace about 1/2 the whey with water. I assume that removal of this whey then removes much of the culture and that that slows down the culture's ability to acidify the curds.

 

[mr_stout]

The soft kefir cheese is very easy to make. You just strain your kefir with a cheese clothe for a few hours. That is how I make labne.

 

[bernardsmith]

The soft kefir cheese is very easy to make. You just strain your kefir with a cheese clothe for a few hours. That is how I make labne.

Yeah, but I think the issue is making hard and aged cheeses from kefir and not labne or other soft and fresh cheese...

 

[AkTom]

Sorry to hijack this thread... Can you make a non dairy cheese?

 

[bernardsmith]

Hiya AkTom, My understanding is that you can make cheese from nuts such as almonds and even from beans (I would suggest that tofu is cheese - and you can in fact male tofu from all kinds of beans and not just soy. Here's one site that might inspire you though the truth is that apart from making tofu once I have yet to try to make cheese from nuts.
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-recipe/10-vegan-cheeses-that-will-knock-your-socks-off/

 

[AkTom]

Thanks. My wife is dairy intolerant. I might have to try something.

 

[bernardsmith]

I am not an MD and I don't play one on TV but hard, aged cheese generally has little or no lactose because the lactose (the sugars) have been converted into lactic acid so people who are lactose intolerant can often eat aged dairy cheese without problems . But you may be very aware of that fact and I am teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs as the old saw has it

 

[AkTom]

You crack me up. Actually no, I didn't know that. I'm not sure if my wife does or not.
By the way, how's your grandmother doing on sucking eggs?

 

[bernardsmith]

My grandmother was very good at sucking eggs... which I believe was a skill that folk mastered in their youth. Quite why , I am not certain, but I assumed that it was to use the egg-shells for some decorative purpose (seriously). But why they would "suck" eggs rather than "blow" them... I have no idea, unless if you blew eggs you were more likely to damage them

 

[AkTom]

Did she teach you how to blow smoke up someone's skirt?

 

[Johntodd]

OP here, let's be nice.

 

[Owly055]

My grandmother was very good at sucking eggs... which I believe was a skill that folk mastered in their youth. Quite why , I am not certain, but I assumed that it was to use the egg-shells for some decorative purpose (seriously). But why they would "suck" eggs rather than "blow" them... I have no idea, unless if you blew eggs you were more likely to damage them

I always blew eggs.......... A number of years ago I had a friend with a bunch of quail. Her daughter wanted to make things from the egg shells, but they are extremely difficult to empty. We couldn't blow them or suck them, and finally resorted to me blowing and her sucking. Quail eggs are very small, and we were in the process of doing one, when her husband walked in from the other room........ what a picture!!! We both dissolved into laughter at his reaction. How do you explain something like that ;-) Ultimately I built an egg sucker using a half pint canning jar, and a special lid with two ports. One port got a rubber hose slipped on that would mate to the egg, the other port hooked to one of my vacuum pumps. It made short work of egg sucking, and was a lot more pleasant. Everything ended up in the jar, and you could use it.
I still chuckle when I think back on the "I'll blow and you suck" incident. It was priceless. If the 4 year old daughter hadn't been there watching our efforts, things might not have ended up quite so pleasantly.

H.W.

 

[AkTom]

Sorry Johntodd. Please don't sick Yooper on us. We'll behave for a few minutes.

 

[bernardsmith]

Attaboy.