JAOM's Bread Yeast's Bad Rap

[PBruske234]

So far I have completed 3 gallons of JAOM.

Before making the JAOM, and while discussing the fact that I was going to use bread yeast with the owner of the local brew shop, I thought he was going have a heart attack. He sold me some other yeast, acid blend, and gave me some other recipe. I did some further reading and people said to stick to the JAOM recipe to a "T". So I did (without the optional spices). And I am glad I did. I didn't use any of the stuff he sold me.

My result was a clear, delicious mead. I didn't get the "pity" taste, my only complaint would be it was a tad too "spicy" for me, it taste like those old english spiced mead, that you have to add the spice packets too. But it still was a great tasting mead. People said it was "strong" but to me that means "better" haha.

Anyways my questions are for those veterans that have actually experimented with JAOM, bread yeast and all. The guys who have bottled this stuff, the guys who followed the recipe to the "T" and have also made mead using the more modern method. And to the guys who modded this recipe.

1) Why does bread yeast get a bad rap?
2) What are the complications with using bread yeast over other yeasts.
3) Does bread yeast make bottling more dangerous?
4) Have you replaced the orange with other fruit?
(I have tried 1/2 gal. with apple instead of orange. Result = bad mead)
5) Is there a science behind the recipe? Like is the orange used for its acid as well as its flavor. Is the rasin used to add that "dry" taste like a grape does to wine? It's obvious the clover and cinnamon add the "spice".
6) What other fruits have you tried, using the same exact recipe, just swaping the orange?
(I have blueberry going right now)
7) Have you tried different honey's?
(So far I have tried, Orange Blossom, wildflower/berry mix, and clover)

Thanks guys!

 

[bob1852]

1) because it's been selected for bread-making. It's ABV tolerance is relatively low, and it doesn't flocculate well. But it works for JAOM

2) see above

3) no

4) yes; pineapple

5) raisins add nutrient, perceived body, and possibly some tanin

6) pineapple - it was okay; but I found it cloying

7) just used clover so far

 

[OneCerebralSamurai]

I'm not a mead expert (I'm working on my 4th and 5th batches), so take what I say accordingly...

When I think “bread yeast”, I think - “lots of CO2, very little ETOH, cloudy because of poor flocculation, and very distinct yeasty flavor”.

If I hadn't heard so many positive reports about JAOM, I would never have thought to try bread yeast for anything but a joke. Maybe I'll give that recipe a try sometime.

 

[FrayAdjacent]

I wondered these things, too. And since I had to buy a six pack of those little boxes of raisins, I'm wondering if I should use some of those for nutrients.

My first two batches are going, one is a JAOM with an orange and raisins... the second is a melomel with blackberry, and teaspoon of a melomel nutrient mix from the local HBS, both using Flieschmann's bread yeast.

 

[lumpher]

i'm not knocking anyone's taste on this, but i let 1 age for a year and a half. didn't like it. then i found i didn't like any mead

 

[truckjohn]

In general - you will get lots of funny looks if you admit to brewing *Anything* with Bread yeast in proper brewing circles.....

The reality is that ~90% of Home Brew alcohol that isn't wild fermented is made with bread yeast... Why? Well... The vast majority of home brewers don't post online - they just make wine/beer from old recipes out of stuff they can get locally.... Bread yeast fits the bill - it's available at the local grocery store.... Bread yeast is just some strain of Ale yeast that Red Star or Fleishmann's sells for making bread... Turns out that it works OK for fermenting lots of things....

Personally - I have tried it in several different things, and it's not my favorite.... It produces *Giant* amounts of gas in fruit musts - to the point that it will overflow must out of buckets that are half full.... It also doesn't flocolate well - so you end up with a cloudy brew that takes a *long* time to finally clear.... It also can produce funny off flavors and has a definite yeasty character if it doesn't have a long time to sit....

All that being said - it works great in Joe's Ancient Orange.... "Proper" wine or champagne yeast may very well ferment it totally dry - and you would end up with dry/bitter Orange/spice rocket fuel that takes 2+ years to age out...

I think part of the magic of Joe's ancient orange is the spice and orange peel oils to bitter and preserve a relatively low alcohol mead... The citric acid in it gives it a nice tangy-ness that many "Show" meads just don't have... The sweetness, spice, and Orange flavors are also pretty strong, and do a good job of hiding off flavors and fusel alcohols that shine on thru a more delicately flavored mead.... All the more reason to just make it to plan...

Thanks

 

[MedsenFey]

then i found i didn't like any mead

That is a bit surprising as mead can be made in so many ways - sweet, dry, sparkling, with fruits like a red wine (elderberry/blackberry), with grape juice (pyment) and with malt to make braggot. If you haven't tried all these variations, perhaps there is a mead out there that you will really enjoy just waiting to be discovered.

If not, well... there will be more for me.

JAOM is a great recipe that uses simple, readily-available ingredients and requires no equipment to speak of. Yet is produces a consistent (if sweet) result if you follow the directions. You can try all sorts of variations, but when you deviate from Joe's recipe, you void the warranty. Many people have found fruits such as berries work well in this type of recipe, though others have found that using any other fruit is inferior. It is hard to generalize so feel free to try something different and see how it goes.

Bread yeast can work just fine. They are saccharomyces cerevisiae too. They may foam a lot, and may not flocculate as well, and may do better at a slightly warmer temperature, and may create more yeasty aroma/flavor (which will fade with time), but they do work. With JAO it is common for the ABV to be 12-14% so it really isn't a low-ABV mead.

Medsen

 

[PBruske234]

Great posts guys! There are some great information here that just isnt in the other JAOM topics when you run a search. I have noticed it doesnt flocculate well, though I havent tried other yeasts yet.

Additional question:

8) I have read other yeast will dry this mead out. Why is that? It uses 3.5lbs of honey per gallon. How could your prevent this?

Also I have pictures of this mead, are you allowed to post pictures on this forum? Thanks again guys.

 

[PBruske234]

Apple on the left (pretty cloudy); JAOM on the right (recipe followed to the T)

After an hour in the freezer

 

[truckjohn]

8. Carefully pick your yeast.

It has to do with the alcohol tolerance of the yeast at hand...

Bread yeasts (And certain Ale yeasts) conk out at 12-14%... Some wild yeasts and other beer yeasts stop at 7%... Some proper wine yeasts go up 15-18%.... Champagne yeasts can top 20%....

so if you have a potential alcohol sugar content of 15% abv and your yeast conks out at 14% - it stays a bit sweet.... If you have a potential alcohol sugar content of 15% and your yeast conks out at 7%.... it tastes like alcoholey pancake syrup...

If you have a potential alcohol sugar content of 15% and your yeast could happily go to 18%..... well... it runs completely dry.

Make sense?

Great posts guys! There are some great information here that just isnt in the other JAOM topics when you run a search. I have noticed it doesnt flocculate well, though I havent tried other yeasts yet.

Additional question:

8) I have read other yeast will dry this mead out. Why is that? It uses 3.5lbs of honey per gallon. How could your prevent this?

Also I have pictures of this mead, are you allowed to post pictures on this forum? Thanks again guys.

 

[PBruske234]

Yes makes perfect sense. Thank you