Is it better?

[Zero]

I'm going to make the move to AG with my next batch, but in considering my setup, something struck me.

What is it, specifically, that makes AG better than extract? Aside from the process itself, I mean. Is there a tangible difference in the end product?

My first batch (ever) was an extract with steeped specialty grains. I've been real happy with the results, but I do think that the flavor does lack some depth/complexity of commercially brewed beers that I enjoy.

Is AG the answer to that?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The possibilities are better.

If your extract is fresh and your methods are solid then one would be hard pressed to distinguish two beers differing only in extract and all grain.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

In short, i believe it is easier to make good beer with AG rather than extract because you have more control over the ingredients.

 

[Revvy]

Being on here I have seen to many folks who think jumping right to AG is a magic bullet, that doing that means they are going to instantly make "better" beer then the "crap" they feel they made from extract. You know, when they didn't use a hydrometer, racked it to soon, and drank their first bottles 3 days after capping them. And they this end up starting "is my beer ruined threads?" where we STILL have to suggest they take a gravity reading or do some other piece of "homebrewing 101" basic stuff.

If your process sucks as an extract brewer, it's gonna suck making all grain, maybe even more so because there are so many more factors that come into play.

It's not the method that makes better beer, plenty of award winning beers have been made with extract. It's the brewer that determines whether or not the beer he makes is crap or excellent.

I wrote a blog about it a couple years back. http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

 

[Zero]

Interesting that you should point that out. I guess I should have said "all other things considered equal" to cover such things.

As it happens, I happen to be one of those people that enjoys the process as well as the final product, so I do in fact check gravity as suggested with my hydrometer, and follow your excellent post about 3 weeks at 70 for proper carb. On my first batch, I allowed myself to open 1 bottle for a sample every 7 days, so I could see how the beer developed. Really cool.

 

[Revvy]

Interesting that you should point that out. I guess I should have said "all other things considered equal" to cover such things.

As it happens, I happen to be one of those people that enjoys the process as well as the final product, so I do in fact check gravity as suggested with my hydrometer, and follow your excellent post about 3 weeks at 70 for proper carb. On my first batch, I allowed myself to open 1 bottle for a sample every 7 days, so I could see how the beer developed. Really cool.

Thanks!

As I said in that blog, I've choked down some mighty foul AG's and enjoyed some fantastic Extract beers, and even a few surprisingly good Mr Beer made beers. And I've made a few great extracts, and a few AG that were dogs....

 

[norwegiangeek]

I find all grain more fulfilling to make. No offense to extract brewers (I've never actually done it) but I've always seen it like making soup from scratch with ingredients you purchased, or opening a can of campbells.

Either way it's soup, and either way can turn out good or bad depending on technique. But doesn't it feel good to know you were more responsible for it turning out well if you go all out.

I do see the appeal though of extract though and using the soup analogy above, if they both turn out delicious why not just use the can of soup and save yourself a bunch of time.

I could be completely off, like I said, I've never done extract, and it does seem that most extract brewers on here do end up adding specialty grains to get the desired effect anyway. So whatever works I guess.

 

[A4J]

I don't think the Campbell's soup is the proper analogy. Extract brewing is more like using pre-made chicken stock to make your soup. You still have a lot of control over the final product.

 

[Revvy]

I don't think the Campbell's soup is the proper analogy. Extract brewing is more like using pre-made chicken stock to make your soup. You still have a lot of control over the final product.

+1,000 This is by far the best analogy I have seen.

 

[winstonofbeer]

Revy is right in the fact that there are award winning extract beers out there.
There are brewerys that do nothing but extract beers and they do o.k with it.
Problem with extract beer is it is more exspencive to make.

I dont know about you, But saving $$$ is important to me now days....I dont work 4 jobs for just the fun of it ya know.

All grain you can buy grain cheaper, but you have the mill issue. So you have to buy a corona mill or know someone who has a mill you can borrow.

With AG personaly i feel when i make a beer if there is something i dont like about it...Say not enough head.. O.k next time add 1 1/2 more lbs of wheat or it wasnt as dark as i thought it should have been add more c40..etc...

I feel i have complete control over every part of the beer..Just like making soup per say...Want more veggies...cut more up...more spice...add a little bit of garlic...plain and simple...

The best way i can say is if you are thinking what way do i want to go, Extract or AG when you start. I have a question. Do you plan to brew every week so you can have enough beer to last you till you next batch is done? Or are you the type of person that has a beer or two once a week and 5gallons is going to take me 4 months to drink?

If you are a person who loves to drink beer and a lot of it, All Grain. It will be cheaper in the long run if you are planning on brewing this much.
If you have time and love to tinker around with making everything you need...Go all grain.


If you only drink a beer every so often, But still want to make beer for the fun of it..extract may be the way for you to go.
Lot easier...No mash tun....Just add, Stir..etc... Done

At any rate, Doesnt matter if it is all grain or extract. If you dont use proper sanition or do the right steps and have the right stuff, such as a GOOD thermomitor...Not the 1.99 at wal-mart, a hydromitor and good records is key.

If you dont take the effort to get all your steps in a row, It wont matter if it was AG and you spent 30 bucks or if it was extract and it was $45... You have to make sure you got the simple things taken care of, Or you might end up with crappy beer. And without those good records, Hydromitor reading and temps...Its going to be hard to figure out what you did wrong.

 

[pretzelb]

I don't think the Campbell's soup is the proper analogy. Extract brewing is more like using pre-made chicken stock to make your soup. You still have a lot of control over the final product.

I'm no expert but I also agree this is a good analogy. However it should be noted it might be more complex than that. If pre-made stock has herbs and spices then imagine all the possibilities including maybe using some fresh herbs grown in your own garden. If you're into cooking at all you may have noticed that fresh herbs can make a bigger impact on a dish than the dried ones in the store. This doesn't even begin to get into how you can't adjust the selection or quantity of herbs/spices used for a pre-made stock.

I think the biggest difference maker with AG is control. Whether the results are a better taste is another story entirely.

 

[justflow1983]

If you only drink a beer every so often, But still want to make beer for the fun of it..extract may be the way for you to go.
Lot easier...No mash tun....Just add, Stir..etc... Done

Edit: quote fixed

This is true for kit beers, but not necessarily for all extracts. If all you're using is unhopped dry light DME for all of your beers as a base malt, its simply a way of getting around mashing. Almost everything else is done the same as AG (I even do a mini mash for my specialty grains). Speciality grains are used, and I hop based on the same schedule as an all-grain batch.

I'm an extract brewer, but the main reason I haven't gone all-grain is the lack of funds to get the gear. I'd save about €10 a batch going AG, but am not yet sure if thats worth the approx €250 investment I'd have to make in gear. I also like the fact that the 3 hr brew time means that I can do it after dinner and not make it a late night.

 

[winstonofbeer]

What i was getting at, Is it can be more simple.
You can do a partial mash and add to the flavor and complexity of the brew.

You are completly right tho, Going All grain is a little bit more spendy. If you want to keg add a lot more $$$

That is the thing about making beer, There is allways ways to upgrade and go bigger and better. Just depends on how far you want to take it before you might want to consider going pro and opening a buisness...Then thats a anouther story...

 

[oceanselv]

As one who has just made the leap from extract and grain steeping to an all grain set up, I prefer the all grain for a few reasons. The first is cost, the grains are cheaper and my LHBS has a grain mill available for their customers. Fine tuning my recipe is much easier using all grain than with an extract. I also had a few boil overs on our electric kitchen stove. The boil overs did not make my wife happy. Because of the boil overs I moved to the garage with a propane burner as my heat source and a three tier gravity fed system. Now when the neighbors come over and ask what the contraption is in my garage, I proudly tell them it is my home brewery. Also as a gadget type of guy, I find the amount of gadgets available for all grain greatly outweighs the gadgets for extract brewing. Finally, I have a chemistry degree and understand the chemistry behind making beer and for me it is much more enjoyable to have the chemistry under my control in all grain brewing.

As many others have said on this thread, the most important factor in making good beer is your process. In the past I had a home with a basement and lived in the Chicago suburbs. Even in the summer my basement temperature never go much above 65. Brewing in the south with summer temperatures often reaching 95 or above, I went to fermenting in a fridge with an external temperature control. In controlling the temperature I have made some very tasty ales and made a few good lagers as well.

Good luck with the conversion to all grain.

 

[Richabt]

I have no problems with using extract. It saves a great deal of process time, and when using partial or mini mash techniques, you can still make some really great beer.

One of the things that I really enjoy about AG is knowing I really made my beer from the ground up. The feeling similar to the scene in Castaway when Tom Hank's says "Look what I have created!", while running around beating his chest.