Is all grain supposed to be hard?

[HoppedupDad]

You know I ran into a guy like that at my LHBS and he basically laughed when I asked a question. I fortunate to have a few stores in my area. I took my business elsewhere as the other stores did not laugh and want my business and you know what. They were in our boots at some point too, everyone is a noob at some point during their brewing life.

 

[HoppedupDad]

You know I ran into a guy like that at my LHBS and he basically laughed when I asked a question. I fortunate to have a few stores in my area. I took my business elsewhere as the other stores did not laugh and want my business and you know what. They were in our boots at some point too, everyone is a noob at some point during their brewing life.

Sorry my toddler hit send

Hopefully you have other stores to go to if not there are some good mail order companies out there.

You can also call the store and speak to the owner/manager and tell them that they have a ****** bag working for them.

In my case the guy was the owner and I told him he would not get one red cent outta me. The sad part is the store is only 5 blocks away. Now I drive to the other side of the city. Lol
I guess that saves me money haha

 

[bovineblitz]

It's not hard at all, but it's a little intimidating to run through a 5+ hour procedure for the first time... it's easier to do at least one or two extract batches first to learn that portion, then add the simple step of making temp controlled barley soup.

There are some more details such as water chemistry/mash pH that are important, but you don't have to worry about that right away.

 

[NervousDad]

Well I screwed up the only two extract batches that I've brewed and I did a decent job with most of my all grain brews. so I'm going to say, no it's not hard and really not any more time consuming..

 

[jbaysurfer]

When new brewers ask me if they should just start with all-grain I give them my best advice:

Start with extract until you have that process and the fermentation process down. Then if you want more control you can go all grain.

This site is littered with posts from people so exasperated by this or that they want us to talk them down from the "quitter" ledge...so I personally think that starting extract increases the likelihood that a brewer STICKS.

But no, it's not "hard" it's just more elaborate and takes longer. I realize that "elaborate" is going to stir some objections, but even biab isn't as easy as dissolving extract into hot water IMHO.

 

[sapper-nc]

I have a habit of brewing for a couple years and then stopping for a couple or three years but I started extract brewing in 1991 and enjoyed brewing and liked my beers ,.. moved on to partial grain brewing around 1996 and really started to enjoy the beer ... then in 2012 went all grain. I still enjoy brewing and I now LOVE the Beer! I did have to get comfortable with the AG process but now it feels very simple.

 

[swackattack]

I think it's focus on things that are important but not necessary to make great beer. Ie- I've made an award winning beer and seldom check ph. I know messing with my water may make better beer but proper o2, yeast pitching and temp control gives me more than good enough beer

 

[bovineblitz]

I think it's focus on things that are important but not necessary to make great beer. Ie- I've made an award winning beer and seldom check ph. I know messing with my water may make better beer but proper o2, yeast pitching and temp control gives me more than good enough beer

Pittsburgh water is great for brewing. Low in everything, soft... generally all you might do is add a moderate amount of salts.

You've been brewing with fantastic water

My water in Cambridge MA and now Binghamton NY has been a bit of a challenge my whole brewing career, but nothing that actually holds me back.

 

[plumber_bob]

I'm not knocking extract brewing,... but I don't like short cuts.

My first batch was All Grain 10 gal. and even though I screwed it up it was still good beer! (So I guess it wasn't a screwup more like learning curve). Buddy at work is extract brewing and I get better raves from those who try both. <Insert Knuckle on chest rub here>. His beer is good, I like having more control of the recipe.

I never had a problem with AG brewing, and my only advise is, study and have patience. Or to quote Charlie, " Relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew".

pb

 

[mpride1911]

Well I screwed up the only two extract batches that I've brewed and I did a decent job with most of my all grain brews. so I'm going to say, no it's not hard and really not any more time consuming..

My first batch was an extract wheat beer while I was still assembling my all grain equipment. It turned out horrible. Maybe 1-2% alcohol. I drank a quite a bit of it and then only blew a .012 on my breathalyzer. I know I should dump it to make corny keg room for the other three that I have in the final stages of fermentation. However, my all grain batches have been great and I love drinking them.

 

[SVB]

I have never brewed extract... I know nothing about it so it intimidates me. Just for perspective.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I brewed an extract batch for my first, then extract with steeping grains, then went AG and have to say I think I had a harder time trying to figure the difference between partial mash and all grain till I realized it was the SAME PROCESS. Your just "mashing" base malt and "steeping" the specialty grains. Cut it any way you like it's all the same process.
Grain+hot water+time=wort
Wort+yeast+more time=beer.
And it really is just that easy. I had a harder time trying to decide if I wanted to fly or batch sparge than I did "figuring out" mashing.
As said earlier. It's only has to be as complex as you want it to be.

 

[Lushife]

I'm almost done getting AG stuff together. I was intimidated by it for a while but mostly because of all the different equipment you can buy. Once I got looking around on here and look at the catalogs with a clearer head I realized that's its not as scary and decided to start getting my AG brewery together. I did have a similar experience at my LHBS when I was buying stuff for a partial mash and they were telling me I needed a mash tun and everything and I should just buy their oatmeal stout recipe. I really wish I had another LHBS.

 

[divrguy]

This is a presentation I did at 2010 NHC about going all grain....

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2010/Moving_to_Mashing-Denny_Conn.pdf

Great presentation Denny. To the point, simple and fun.. That's what brewing really is!

 

[ilikeguns]

at $5/lb.. i hate buying extract... especially for the beers I like to make.

 

[Doongie]

I started out extract brewing with a small kettle on the stovetop, using icewater to cool the wort and get volume for pitching yeast. Liquid transfer consisted of pouring water into a bucket, racking to a bottling bucket, and using a bottling wand. Simple, effective, cost only one pot. Recipes are like making hot chocolate, add syrup and or powder to hot water.

The switch to all grain CAN include quite a bit of equipment costs, however I sourced everything for my mash tun plus a cooker plus an 11 gallon kettle new, and used 316 stainless fittings, and I am still under $200. I don't rack to a second vessel either, I leave it on the cake till I bottle. Many things can start to add costs, and many make them sound like necessary steps to making good beer, and it's just not so. Many make it out to be this intimidating task, but the reality is, you follow a recipe. That recipe can be complicated, or simple, and it is a lot like making coffee. Award winning beer has been made with very simple processes on very basic equipment setups. If you like, or even just are ok with variety, you can stop here. Gaining real consistency and repeatability can bring on a whole new slew of requirements, anything from knowing ambient temperature and being able to control your cooker, to an automated setup....

I think many people who are interested get confused by those who make claims about something being the best way to make the best beer, and then they get lost. This is one of the biggest problems with the internet, and this forum as well. there are literally thousands of threads about the same topic, each with different responses (I missed my og, fly or batch, etc). Read through it all, sort the wheat from the chaff for yourself, and you will find what works for you. It takes time to do it. Once I found the stickies, it went a lot faster though.

 

[herc1354]

We will all encounter turds in all hobbies. I fooled around with extract brewing about ten years ago and never felt like I was getting the results I wanted, I stopped and decided to go AG once I hade the time and money and space, that was ten years ago, I'm now gathering all the parts and equipment to build a single tier system. The system will consist of three kegs with tops cut off and feature a HERMS system controlled buy a PID, build thread to follow soon, any way my point is we should do what we feel comfortable doing, dam the naysayers!

 

[zippyclown]

Grain+hot water+time=wort
Wort+yeast+more time=beer.
And it really is just that easy.

Yes! For me, once I wrapped my head around that simple fact the rest fell into place. More or less, steeping grain in hot water MAKES EXTRACT. After I realized I could make it, why should I be tricked into spending $5/pound for extract? No wonder the LHBS guy wants me to stay an extract brewer. He probably makes more profit from the extract sales.

It's exactly like making french press coffee.
1. Grind the beans
2. Heat water to a specific temp
3. Add the beans, stir them, and let them steep for a while
4. Drain out the juicy goodness.

Steep for too long, or too hot, and you get bitterness. Keep your process the same only add more beans, and you get a bigger bolder cup of coffee.

I thought making french press coffee was intimidating until I did it. Now I can't imagine drinking coffee any other way. I still make coffee in my coffee maker when I don't have the time, but I can immediately tell the difference. French press coffee is richer and smoother. More flavorful and aromatic. Drip or "K-cup" coffee has a stale and bitter flavor that we've been convinced is normal, but fixable (add cream for the richness and sugar to neutralize the bitter).

 

[herc1354]

It's exactly like making french press coffee.
1. Grind the beans
2. Heat water to a specific temp
3. Add the beans, stir them, and let them steep for a while
4. Drain out the juicy goodness.

Steep for too long, or too hot, and you get bitterness. Keep your process the same only add more beans, and you get a bigger bolder cup of coffee.

I thought making french press coffee was intimidating until I did it. Now I can't imagine drinking coffee any other way. I still make coffee in my coffee maker when I don't have the time, but I can immediately tell the difference. French press coffee is richer and smoother. More flavorful and aromatic. Drip or "K-cup" coffee has a stale and bitter flavor that we've been convinced is normal, but fixable (add cream for the richness and sugar to neutralize the bitter).

Exactly! Amazing how making an excellent cup of coffee is similar to making a good home brew. I recently go into espresso, some will say its too expensive and not worth the effort, much like putting together a good AG set-up it can be pricey but the pay off is worth it, not to mention its much cheaper in the end and WAY more fun. I can't wait till I have my single tier up and running and tasting the fruits of my labor.

 

[kombat]

I don't think AG is "hard," but it is more finicky than extract. Specifically, you have to pay more attention to temperatures. With extract, you can ignore temperatures. All you need to know is "is it boiling yet?" All grain demands that we nail a very specific temperature range, and that can take a little experience.

As others have mentioned, there is also the added cost of additional equipment, such as the aforementioned thermometer, as well as a scale (for weighing grains), mill (for milling grains), campden and fermcap tablets, irish moss, gelatin or isinglass, a chiller capable of cooling 5.5 gallons of wort rather than merely 3 gallons, a mash tun, possibly an outdoor propane burner, and a bigger boil kettle. But those don't really add much in terms of difficulty - merely expense. To me, the only hard part is nailing that mash temperature.

 

[zippyclown]

As others have mentioned, there is also the added cost of additional equipment, such as the aforementioned thermometer, as well as a scale (for weighing grains), mill (for milling grains), campden and fermcap tablets, irish moss, gelatin or isinglass, a chiller capable of cooling 5.5 gallons of wort rather than merely 3 gallons, a mash tun, possibly an outdoor propane burner, and a bigger boil kettle. But those don't really add much in terms of difficulty - merely expense. To me, the only hard part is nailing that mash temperature.

But hold on, there you go again (the royal "you"). Do I really need all that stuff? Or do I just need a big pot, a big grain bag and a thermometer? I can brew beer without tablets, moss, gelatin, isinglass, a chiller, a mash tun, and a burner. I don't even need a grain mill. What you're referring to is the stuff that comes later when you realize how to refine your own process and save some time. Which is what we're all constantly doing anyway, no matter what end of the spectrum we're at.

 

[herc1354]

Kind of makes me ask how man kind brewed beer when tools such as thermostatically controlled burners, thermometers, and water conditioners were not available, oh wait I know they just did, they built a fire and used sound judgment and common sense. Brewing beer can be as involved and technical and or simple as one needs or wants it to be. In the end if the results are what you want then you have succeeded, if they are not then you will either give up or make the necessary adjustments.

Me being a beginner to the all grain world, I'm going to jump feet first, ask questions and learn along the way, I'll probably brew some really good beers as well as some bad ones, as long as I have fun then I've seceded.

 

[derrickaubin]

In the pre-prohibition days, brewing was done by women as part of their usual household activities, using equipment that they had in their kitchens.

After homebrewing was legalized in 1978, men came along and added complex process and equipment, within the tolerance of whatever their wives allowed them to have.

 

[winvarin]

But hold on, there you go again (the royal "you"). Do I really need all that stuff? Or do I just need a big pot, a big grain bag and a thermometer? I can brew beer without tablets, moss, gelatin, isinglass, a chiller, a mash tun, and a burner. I don't even need a grain mill. What you're referring to is the stuff that comes later when you realize how to refine your own process and save some time. Which is what we're all constantly doing anyway, no matter what end of the spectrum we're at.

+1 to this. As it is with most things, the entry point to AG brewing is relatively low. With less than $100-200 in equipment additions, most extract brewers can make the switch to AG. A non brewer wanting to start with AG could spend a little more and go from 0 gear to a decent AG set up.

I started brewing in the days when Papazian's first book was the dominant home brew text. It wasn't until I also brought his home brewing companion that I really wrapped my head around AG. But these days, with the Palmer book, the Internet, and forum sites like this one, its pretty easy to get into AG quickly if that's the way you want to go.

My gadget hoard has grown over time, although not because I needed the bling to make good beer. But because I wanted some of the gear to help me fine tune my beers, and some of the gear to shorten or simplify my brew day.

My wife and I have a closet obsession with zombie and end of the world movies. After watching them, the conversation will often turn to "how would you make beer in the wake of the zombie apocalypse?" When I put my mind to it, I realize I could actually ditch around half of my current brew house and still make beer in a pinch given access to ingredients.

And after reading a recent issue of BYO, a lot of the mystery around making your own malt is gone as well.

 

[Denny]

Great presentation Denny. To the point, simple and fun.. That's what brewing really is!

Thanks! My motto is "the best beer possible with the least effort possible while having the most fun possible!".

 

[Darwin18]

The only pieces of equipment that separate an all-grain brewer and an extract brewer is a mash tun and a good accurate thermometer. Most brew kettles already come with thermometer installed so you can get away with that - I do. A mash tun is as simple as buying a cooler and installing a bazooka screen with a ball valve assembly. You should be able to do that for less than $100. The other equipment like a chiller can be bought later. You do not need a grain mill or gelatin or irish moss. As with everything in life you can make it as simple and complicated as you like. I try to tell people that if you can make oatmeal you can handle all grain.

 

[jbaysurfer]

My first batch was an extract wheat beer while I was still assembling my all grain equipment. It turned out horrible. Maybe 1-2% alcohol. I drank a quite a bit of it and then only blew a .012 on my breathalyzer. I know I should dump it to make corny keg room for the other three that I have in the final stages of fermentation. However, my all grain batches have been great and I love drinking them.

How did you use extract and miss your OG by that much? Extract, when measured correctly in the correct volume of water will yield a very reliable OG.

 

[jbaysurfer]

In the pre-prohibition days, brewing was done by women as part of their usual household activities, using equipment that they had in their kitchens.

After homebrewing was legalized in 1978, men came along and added complex process and equipment, within the tolerance of whatever their wives allowed them to have.

LOL at the last sentence, but I think the equipment change and the improvement in homebrew quality were simultaneous and it had nothing to do with the gender of the brewers.

 

[gizmodog51]

I was an extract brewer for a bunch of years. Then I walked into the LHBS and asked the guy for suggestions on a recipe for all grain IPA, not realizing it required a separate setup from what I had. In front of several people in line, he laughed and started lecturing me on the equipment and the time involved, etc etc. "You just can't suddenly decide to brew all grain!" he hollered. Most of the people in line were laughing hysterically at me. I seem to remember even a man's german shephard laughing as well. I will never forget that sound as long as I live. I blacked out for the remainder of the hazing but do remember screaming "FEET DON'T FAIL ME NOW" as I sprinted from the store.

After 2 years and 4 Anothony Robbins courses, I decided to revisit, and have been all grain ever since.

And looking back now I have to ask WHAT'S THE BIG FRIGGEN DEAL?

I skim over the message boards and it confuses me. People seem scared or imtimidated by the concept. It's like these people are deciding whether or not to have another child. I see the YouTube videos... 30 minutes of a guy trying to explain in great length how to convert a 10-gallon igloo cooler to be a mash tun, which by the way is pretty much all you need (hmm that took me under 10 mins using a wrench and a valve I bought online). Then there's the 60 minute step-by-step guide on how to fabricate your own false bottom ($15 on Amazon). A 3 month course on the chemistry of water you'll need to take before you can make an IPA (you trying to win a beer competition or make some good beer for your friends?).

Always been confused about all that.

Ok, bye!

zc

chin up! you leaned something, nothing wasted. now go get a mesh bag large enough to fit your pot and do a 3 gallon BIAB ALL GRAIN brew.
simple as shallowing your favorite brew! check the BIAB sticky in this topic menu.

GD

 

[Denny]

The only pieces of equipment that separate an all-grain brewer and an extract brewer is a mash tun and a good accurate thermometer. Most brew kettles already come with thermometer installed so you can get away with that - I do. A mash tun is as simple as buying a cooler and installing a bazooka screen with a ball valve assembly. You should be able to do that for less than $100. The other equipment like a chiller can be bought later. You do not need a grain mill or gelatin or irish moss. As with everything in life you can make it as simple and complicated as you like. I try to tell people that if you can make oatmeal you can handle all grain.

A ball valve is unnecessary. I actually found I like the cheap nylon valve I use better than ball valve. And a hose braid is cheaper than a Bazooka. If you do full boils, you definiteley need some way to chill it.